Another pantomime auction is underway

Andy_Symons wrote:

Mrrapson wrote:

Yea Man wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/consumer-rights-do-i-have-to-pay-tax-on-online-auction-profits-1862964.html


http://auction.lifetips.com/faq/68616/0/will-i-have-to-pay-taxes-on-income-derived-from-my-auction-sales/index.html

Irrelevant information. The auctions are not on auctions sites, there is no personal income being made from the auction, they are charitable donations which are not taxable anyway.

I really do get that people hate ian and co but for god sake if youre going to try and bring the man down at least do something useful. You've got Rickler sniping away at Hairy because god forbid he shows a modicum of common sense and sees the same as the rest of us that the auctions are real, they are for a good cause and help a lot of the staff.

Bitch and moan but lets leave the auctions alone eh? I also fail to see why it is such an issue that JB asked to bid on an item, an item he didnt even win! Perhaps he wanted it as a birthday or christmas present for someone?

Agreed, Leigh.

It's almost as bad as someone bitching, moaning, sniping and undermining the way the Trust Board conducts its business, yet remaining resolutely silent about a real screw up and piss-take of the fans, the 'organising' of the Supporters Board.

i havent commented on it because i think it's pointless. IMHO it should be the trust there and not some trumped up supporters board that will in all likelyhood be handpicked so its filled with people who won't question JB too closely.

It's a waste of time having it.

My criticisms of the trust were justified at the time, when i felt they weren't i stepped back. I have also spoken to Tim now to clarify a few things. He is happy with my explanation.

Bogsider wrote:

Mrrapson wrote:

Yea Man wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/consumer-rights-do-i-have-to-pay-tax-on-online-auction-profits-1862964.html


http://auction.lifetips.com/faq/68616/0/will-i-have-to-pay-taxes-on-income-derived-from-my-auction-sales/index.html

Irrelevant information. The auctions are not on auctions sites, there is no personal income being made from the auction, they are charitable donations which are not taxable anyway.

I really do get that people hate ian and co but for god sake if youre going to try and bring the man down at least do something useful. You've got Rickler sniping away at Hairy because god forbid he shows a modicum of common sense and sees the same as the rest of us that the auctions are real, they are for a good cause and help a lot of the staff.

Bitch and moan but lets leave the auctions alone eh? I also fail to see why it is such an issue that JB asked to bid on an item, an item he didnt even win! Perhaps he wanted it as a birthday or christmas present for someone?

I wasn't aware that PAFC was a registered charity???

Its not but the Green Taverners are which is were the money goes, as you well know.

Mrrapson wrote:

Bogsider wrote:

Mrrapson wrote:

Yea Man wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/consumer-rights-do-i-have-to-pay-tax-on-online-auction-profits-1862964.html


http://auction.lifetips.com/faq/68616/0/will-i-have-to-pay-taxes-on-income-derived-from-my-auction-sales/index.html

Irrelevant information. The auctions are not on auctions sites, there is no personal income being made from the auction, they are charitable donations which are not taxable anyway.

I really do get that people hate ian and co but for god sake if youre going to try and bring the man down at least do something useful. You've got Rickler sniping away at Hairy because god forbid he shows a modicum of common sense and sees the same as the rest of us that the auctions are real, they are for a good cause and help a lot of the staff.

Bitch and moan but lets leave the auctions alone eh? I also fail to see why it is such an issue that JB asked to bid on an item, an item he didnt even win! Perhaps he wanted it as a birthday or christmas present for someone?

I wasn't aware that PAFC was a registered charity???

Its not but the Green Taverners are which is were the money goes, as you well know.

Are you sure about that?

I may well be wrong but I recall reading somewhere that money raised by the auctions was handed over to the Green Taverners who in turn LEND it to the club to expeediate the repayment of staff wages. The club is to repay the Green Taverners eventually and the money used along with any future monies raised for community projects.
Now like I said, I may be wrong but i'm sure theres one or two that can correct me if I am. All this tax shite is just bollocks and an attempt to cause a bit of shit. There is enough crap without making it up.

The GTs are going to be sat on a fair sum at the end of this repayment malarky.

What are they going to do with the money then?

Highwayman wrote:

I may well be wrong but I recall reading somewhere that money raised by the auctions was handed over to the Green Taverners who in turn LEND it to the club to expeediate the repayment of staff wages. The club is to repay the Green Taverners eventually and the money used along with any future monies raised for community projects.
Now like I said, I may be wrong but i'm sure theres one or two that can correct me if I am. All this tax shite is just bollocks and an attempt to cause a bit of shit. There is enough crap without making it up.

That's the crux though and one question I've asked on a couple of sites and never received a definitive answer. Is the money raised by supporters to speed up the staff payment process going to be refunded by Brent as per his original plan to buy the club? or are these funds simply paying of JB's debt.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Mrrapson wrote:

Bogsider wrote:

Mrrapson wrote:

Yea Man wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/consumer-rights-do-i-have-to-pay-tax-on-online-auction-profits-1862964.html


http://auction.lifetips.com/faq/68616/0/will-i-have-to-pay-taxes-on-income-derived-from-my-auction-sales/index.html

Irrelevant information. The auctions are not on auctions sites, there is no personal income being made from the auction, they are charitable donations which are not taxable anyway.

I really do get that people hate ian and co but for god sake if youre going to try and bring the man down at least do something useful. You've got Rickler sniping away at Hairy because god forbid he shows a modicum of common sense and sees the same as the rest of us that the auctions are real, they are for a good cause and help a lot of the staff.

Bitch and moan but lets leave the auctions alone eh? I also fail to see why it is such an issue that JB asked to bid on an item, an item he didnt even win! Perhaps he wanted it as a birthday or christmas present for someone?

I wasn't aware that PAFC was a registered charity???

Its not but the Green Taverners are which is were the money goes, as you well know.

Are you sure about that?

They are not showing any sign of being a registered charity on their web site, I would think a registered charity number would be there.

Nick Wall wrote:

Highwayman wrote:

I may well be wrong but I recall reading somewhere that money raised by the auctions was handed over to the Green Taverners who in turn LEND it to the club to expeediate the repayment of staff wages. The club is to repay the Green Taverners eventually and the money used along with any future monies raised for community projects.
Now like I said, I may be wrong but i'm sure theres one or two that can correct me if I am. All this tax shite is just bollocks and an attempt to cause a bit of shit. There is enough crap without making it up.

That's the crux though and one question I've asked on a couple of sites and never received a definitive answer. Is the money raised by supporters to speed up the staff payment process going to be refunded by Brent as per his original plan to buy the club? or are these funds simply paying of JB's debt.

The way I understood it is it's the club repaying the money and not Brent.

Just so I get this right:

1. JB agrees to buy the club and pay the staff back over a long period of time
2. Supporters raise money to speed up this process
3. Once this has been paid in full the club and not JB will donate the shortfall to the GT's
4. Therefore the club (and the supporters who gallantly raised this money) will suffer in future years as it will need to pay back the GT's, thereby diverting money from say a transfer fund.
5. What price that at the time this dilemma is communicated to the GT's and supporters.

What do you want supporters? Shall I give the money to the GT's or shall I spend it on a new striker?

This model seems to me to be no difference than the Glazer's. Take on personal debt and then transfer the liability for that debt onto the football club. When profit is to be realised the process is reversed.

Am I missing something here?

Tgwu wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Mrrapson wrote:

Bogsider wrote:

Mrrapson wrote:

Yea Man wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/consumer-rights-do-i-have-to-pay-tax-on-online-auction-profits-1862964.html


http://auction.lifetips.com/faq/68616/0/will-i-have-to-pay-taxes-on-income-derived-from-my-auction-sales/index.html

Irrelevant information. The auctions are not on auctions sites, there is no personal income being made from the auction, they are charitable donations which are not taxable anyway.

I really do get that people hate ian and co but for god sake if youre going to try and bring the man down at least do something useful. You've got Rickler sniping away at Hairy because god forbid he shows a modicum of common sense and sees the same as the rest of us that the auctions are real, they are for a good cause and help a lot of the staff.

Bitch and moan but lets leave the auctions alone eh? I also fail to see why it is such an issue that JB asked to bid on an item, an item he didnt even win! Perhaps he wanted it as a birthday or christmas present for someone?

I wasn't aware that PAFC was a registered charity???

Its not but the Green Taverners are which is were the money goes, as you well know.

Are you sure about that?

They are not showing any sign of being a registered charity on their web site, I would think a registered charity number would be there.

I remember Penz commenting, when the GT's formed, on the use of "Taverners" and that it may dupe some into thinking the GT's are a charity (confusions with the Lord's Taverners)? Looks like he was correct. I might be wrong, but I don't think the GT's have ever said they were a charity or are registered as such?

Tgwu wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Mrrapson wrote:

Bogsider wrote:

Mrrapson wrote:

Yea Man wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/consumer-rights-do-i-have-to-pay-tax-on-online-auction-profits-1862964.html


http://auction.lifetips.com/faq/68616/0/will-i-have-to-pay-taxes-on-income-derived-from-my-auction-sales/index.html

Irrelevant information. The auctions are not on auctions sites, there is no personal income being made from the auction, they are charitable donations which are not taxable anyway.

I really do get that people hate ian and co but for god sake if youre going to try and bring the man down at least do something useful. You've got Rickler sniping away at Hairy because god forbid he shows a modicum of common sense and sees the same as the rest of us that the auctions are real, they are for a good cause and help a lot of the staff.

Bitch and moan but lets leave the auctions alone eh? I also fail to see why it is such an issue that JB asked to bid on an item, an item he didnt even win! Perhaps he wanted it as a birthday or christmas present for someone?

I wasn't aware that PAFC was a registered charity???

Its not but the Green Taverners are which is were the money goes, as you well know.

Are you sure about that?

They are not showing any sign of being a registered charity on their web site, I would think a registered charity number would be there.

Not all charity's have to be registered, for example they are small with a small annual turnover or they are not deemed for public benifit and as such they would not have number.

I know I'm getting old and my memory fails more by the day but I seem to recall that due to questions of auditing the money trail they set themselves up as a Ltd.Co. soon after the exit from administration.

As to the tax situation, I'm sure it's all legal and above board but it's a question for the GT's.

What I've never clearly understood was the rather wooly statement by Brent that the GT's would be compensated by investment in community projects as a kind of quid pro quo for the money raised to accelerate the staff repayment.

Highwayman wrote:

Tgwu wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Mrrapson wrote:

Bogsider wrote:

Mrrapson wrote:

Yea Man wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/consumer-rights-do-i-have-to-pay-tax-on-online-auction-profits-1862964.html


http://auction.lifetips.com/faq/68616/0/will-i-have-to-pay-taxes-on-income-derived-from-my-auction-sales/index.html

Irrelevant information. The auctions are not on auctions sites, there is no personal income being made from the auction, they are charitable donations which are not taxable anyway.

I really do get that people hate ian and co but for god sake if youre going to try and bring the man down at least do something useful. You've got Rickler sniping away at Hairy because god forbid he shows a modicum of common sense and sees the same as the rest of us that the auctions are real, they are for a good cause and help a lot of the staff.

Bitch and moan but lets leave the auctions alone eh? I also fail to see why it is such an issue that JB asked to bid on an item, an item he didnt even win! Perhaps he wanted it as a birthday or christmas present for someone?

I wasn't aware that PAFC was a registered charity???

Its not but the Green Taverners are which is were the money goes, as you well know.

Are you sure about that?

They are not showing any sign of being a registered charity on their web site, I would think a registered charity number would be there.

Not all charity's have to be registered, for example they are small with a small annual turnover or they are not deemed for public benifit and as such they would not have number.

Charities with less than £5,000 a year do not need to register with the Charity Commission. However, if your income grows larger than this, the charity must register

http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Start_up_a_charity/Do_I_need_to_register/Resources_for_very_small_charities.aspx

Charlie Wood wrote:

I know I'm getting old and my memory fails more by the day but I seem to recall that due to questions of auditing the money trail they set themselves up as a Ltd.Co. soon after the exit from administration.As to the tax situation, I'm sure it's all legal and above board but it's a question for the GT's.

What I've never clearly understood was the rather wooly statement by Brent that the GT's would be compensated by investment in community projects as a kind of quid pro quo for the money raised to accelerate the staff repayment.

I suppose that would make sense Charlie as I can't actually remember them calling themselves a charity and I suppose they would just hand over the money as way of a loan/gift or donation. I don't know, all I do know is they do more good than harm for our club and staff allthough I do agree it is Brents place to pay the staff rather than passing it of as the clubs historic debt. You buy the club, you buy the debts.

Highwayman wrote:

Charlie Wood wrote:

I know I'm getting old and my memory fails more by the day but I seem to recall that due to questions of auditing the money trail they set themselves up as a Ltd.Co. soon after the exit from administration.As to the tax situation, I'm sure it's all legal and above board but it's a question for the GT's.

What I've never clearly understood was the rather wooly statement by Brent that the GT's would be compensated by investment in community projects as a kind of quid pro quo for the money raised to accelerate the staff repayment.

I suppose that would make sense Charlie as I can't actually remember them calling themselves a charity and I suppose they would just hand over the money as way of a loan/gift or donation. I don't know, all I do know is they do more good than harm for our club and staff allthough I do agree it is Brents place to pay the staff rather than passing it of as the clubs historic debt. You buy the club, you buy the debts.

thats how i see it.

Charlies right, they are registered company and not a charity.

Name & Registered Office:
GREEN TAVERNERS LIMITED
c/o BENNETT JONES & CO
94 FORE STREET
BODMIN
CORNWALL
UNITED KINGDOM
PL31 2HR
Company No. 07761964

Well, well...MY accountants!!!

Tis a small world Charlie.

Charlie Wood wrote:

Well, well...MY accountants!!!

Could be this one


Parkhurst Hill
Torrington Chambers
58 North Road East
Plymouth, Devon
PL4 6AJ

Heard they are shit on all money matters

Highwayman wrote:

Tgwu wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Mrrapson wrote:

Bogsider wrote:

Mrrapson wrote:

Yea Man wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/consumer-rights-do-i-have-to-pay-tax-on-online-auction-profits-1862964.html


http://auction.lifetips.com/faq/68616/0/will-i-have-to-pay-taxes-on-income-derived-from-my-auction-sales/index.html

Irrelevant information. The auctions are not on auctions sites, there is no personal income being made from the auction, they are charitable donations which are not taxable anyway.

I really do get that people hate ian and co but for god sake if youre going to try and bring the man down at least do something useful. You've got Rickler sniping away at Hairy because god forbid he shows a modicum of common sense and sees the same as the rest of us that the auctions are real, they are for a good cause and help a lot of the staff.

Bitch and moan but lets leave the auctions alone eh? I also fail to see why it is such an issue that JB asked to bid on an item, an item he didnt even win! Perhaps he wanted it as a birthday or christmas present for someone?

I wasn't aware that PAFC was a registered charity???

Its not but the Green Taverners are which is were the money goes, as you well know.

Are you sure about that?

They are not showing any sign of being a registered charity on their web site, I would think a registered charity number would be there.

Not all charity's have to be registered, for example they are small with a small annual turnover or they are not deemed for public benifit and as such they would not have number.

Once a charity is set up and its annual income is more than £5,000, it must apply to become a registered charity.

Mrrapson wrote:

You've got Rickler sniping away at Hairy because god forbid he shows a modicum of common sense and sees the same as the rest of us that the auctions are real, they are for a good cause and help a lot of the staff.

Bitch and moan but lets leave the auctions alone eh? I also fail to see why it is such an issue that JB asked to bid on an item, an item he didnt even win! Perhaps he wanted it as a birthday or christmas present for someone?

Wrong again Rapson! I'm 'sniping' at Hairy J because he refuses to believe the 'snapshots' on Newell's flkr account are real and not specially created to 'troll' me or other ATD users.

And excuse me... But I though the auctions were for Pasoti members? Not any Tom, Dick or James that feels like bidding - which would make Bent ineligible.

As for the tax situation...

So now the money trail goes something like this... Bidder to Newell, to GT's, to PAFC, and PAFC back to GT's again?

Yeah right... HMRC aren't going to be bothered about a little arrangment like that.

Jeez, talk about a recipe for disaster.

Nick Wall wrote:

Just so I get this right:

1. JB agrees to buy the club and pay the staff back over a long period of time
2. Supporters raise money to speed up this process
3. Once this has been paid in full the club and not JB will donate the shortfall to the GT's
4. Therefore the club (and the supporters who gallantly raised this money) will suffer in future years as it will need to pay back the GT's, thereby diverting money from say a transfer fund.
5. What price that at the time this dilemma is communicated to the GT's and supporters.

What do you want supporters? Shall I give the money to the GT's or shall I spend it on a new striker?

This model seems to me to be no difference than the Glazer's. Take on personal debt and then transfer the liability for that debt onto the football club. When profit is to be realised the process is reversed.

Am I missing something here?

I think you are. Eventually the staff will be repaid what they are owed in full from the club's income which is exactly where the money to pay them should have come from in the first place. All the GTs are doing is ensuring that the staff get there money more quickly. I have no problem with this. What I would like to know is how much has been raised so far and how much remains to be raised which doesn't seem like much to ask and yet the information is nowhere to be seen in the public domain. It is the end of the process that worries me. Brent has said that the club will invest enough in community projects to match the money raised by the GTs but if we don't know how much the GTs have raised then we'll never know if Brent is keeping his end of the bargain up. And once the staff are all repaid what will the role of the GTs then be?

In effect, the GTs are a business/Company and will therefore have accounts to be submitted?

Are the GT's a profit making organisation and if so, who makes the profit?

The Green Taverners have a web-site with a contact section. It would be very straightforward to go and ask a straightforward question. It would, in my view, be reasonable to ask how much they have raised and how Mr Brent is going to match that and when.

Don't shift the attacks onto the GTs. They have chosen to step back from the politics of the club. They refused the offer of representation on the PASB. They are expediting the payment of the staff.

The pressure needs to be on Mr Brent to keep his side of the deal.