get this feckin idiot out now before its too late

chriswebbfanclub wrote:

The more relegations we get, the more Newell & Webb will be saying how it's a good thing 'cos we'll get more local derbies.

Big match against Tavi-that'll decide who's the best team in West Devon!

Just fink of all them new stadiums to visit. 'They won't be able to cope with the ,mighty green army !'

Cheaper season ticket and match day prices means extra money for half time pasties................ mmmmmmm starvin

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

I'm a comparative new comer on this site but I have picked up the fact that numerous people who post on here have predicted the inevitable slide down the leagues for the last 3 years and have also been predicting the present situation to continue. Why then all the angst and why not just a shrug and resignation now that what you said would happen is indeed happening. There surely cannot be any who are shocked if you saw it all in your crystal ball.

Why have a go at those who still don't want to believe what is happening? They may be wrong but it doesn't make somebody stupid if they don't want to accept relegation yet. They will so just give them a bit of time. I don't want to believe it either but have slowly come around to the thought it most probably will happen but it always takes some people longer than others in anything.

SG, I've pretty much shrugged my shoulders. At 58 and after 50 years I've accepted there's more to life than fecking Plymouth Argyle. I'm in my holiday home in South Africa and I have a wardrobe full of Argo shirts that don't see the light of day now, I'm fed up explaining our place in the football pyramid. Shame and embarrassment are the two emotions I feel when my thoughts turn to my football club. I rarely post on Pasoti now, it's just been too depressing swimming against the tide but this site is an oasis of sanity and has posters who REALLY care about what's happened. I'm very disappointed with PJ but can only assume other voices have had more influence with JB about Fletcher. Brent's first action on taking over should have been to replace Fletcher as the first move of a clean sweep. Staying with a rookie manager who has been integral in the two previous relegations and as such fallen into the acceptance of failure was a glaring mistake. It's too late now to do anything effective, the dice have been rolled and we can only hope lady luck sees us through. It should never have come to that though.

Charlie Wood wrote:

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

I'm a comparative new comer on this site but I have picked up the fact that numerous people who post on here have predicted the inevitable slide down the leagues for the last 3 years and have also been predicting the present situation to continue. Why then all the angst and why not just a shrug and resignation now that what you said would happen is indeed happening. There surely cannot be any who are shocked if you saw it all in your crystal ball.

Why have a go at those who still don't want to believe what is happening? They may be wrong but it doesn't make somebody stupid if they don't want to accept relegation yet. They will so just give them a bit of time. I don't want to believe it either but have slowly come around to the thought it most probably will happen but it always takes some people longer than others in anything.

SG, I've pretty much shrugged my shoulders. At 58 and after 50 years I've accepted there's more to life than fecking Plymouth Argyle. I'm in my holiday home in South Africa and I have a wardrobe full of Argo shirts that don't see the light of day now, I'm fed up explaining our place in the football pyramid. Shame and embarrassment are the two emotions I feel when my thoughts turn to my football club. I rarely post on Pasoti now, it's just been too depressing swimming against the tide but this site is an oasis of sanity and has posters who REALLY care about what's happened. I'm very disappointed with PJ but can only assume other voices have had more influence with JB about Fletcher. Brent's first action on taking over should have been to replace Fletcher as the first move of a clean sweep. Staying with a rookie manager who has been integral in the two previous relegations and as such fallen into the acceptance of failure was a glaring mistake. It's too late now to do anything effective, the dice have been rolled and we can only hope lady luck sees us through. It should never have come to that though.

I feel the same. My ongoing feud with the farm has only served to polarise opinion.I no longer feel I belong. In the BBC interview with Brent last month, he clearly backed Fletcher and rated him as having a great future. For an astute businessman, he has either been ill advised, hasn't got a clue, or is happy to see the club out of the league.


ps Brent did say that the football at the top of the BSP is as good as Div 2 A tad presumptuous that we'd be anywhere near the top !

Bloody knee jerkers, where were you in the Pasoti War 2, what did YOU do?

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

I'm a comparative new comer on this site but I have picked up the fact that numerous people who post on here have predicted the inevitable slide down the leagues for the last 3 years and have also been predicting the present situation to continue. Why then all the angst and why not just a shrug and resignation now that what you said would happen is indeed happening. There surely cannot be any who are shocked if you saw it all in your crystal ball.

Why have a go at those who still don't want to believe what is happening? They may be wrong but it doesn't make somebody stupid if they don't want to accept relegation yet. They will so just give them a bit of time. I don't want to believe it either but have slowly come around to the thought it most probably will happen but it always takes some people longer than others in anything.

No crystal ball required, our demise was hardly difficult to predict. A monkey could see what was going to happen when *****wallet sold Ollie's team off in 2008. Then the Japs, new world, world cup, property development had failure written all over it. Now the non-investing and uninterested brent is continuing the theme of miserable failure. And just becuase we could see (and still can see) what was happenning doesn't make it any easier to bear. I'm not at all surprised at our predicement but I'm no less angry and dissappointed. If you want happy clappy acceptance of all things shit, all things brent, expulsion from the FL and probable liquidation then go to pasoti. They're celebrating our shitness. I will continue to slate the twats destroying our club whether you like it or not.

Ridsdale appointed Fletcher as manager because he was on the verge of leading the players out on strike. He then convinced Brent that Fletcher was an "outstanding individual". We are still suffering the consequences of that.

If one of our relegation rivals had appointed their 31 year old captain as manager we would have pissed our pants laughing.

But it was also convenient for Brent that Fletcher was considerably cheaper to employ then Reid.

Freathy wrote:

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

I'm a comparative new comer on this site but I have picked up the fact that numerous people who post on here have predicted the inevitable slide down the leagues for the last 3 years and have also been predicting the present situation to continue. Why then all the angst and why not just a shrug and resignation now that what you said would happen is indeed happening. There surely cannot be any who are shocked if you saw it all in your crystal ball.

Why have a go at those who still don't want to believe what is happening? They may be wrong but it doesn't make somebody stupid if they don't want to accept relegation yet. They will so just give them a bit of time. I don't want to believe it either but have slowly come around to the thought it most probably will happen but it always takes some people longer than others in anything.

No crystal ball required, our demise was hardly difficult to predict. A monkey could see what was going to happen when *****wallet sold Ollie's team off in 2008. Then the Japs, new world, world cup, property development had failure written all over it. Now the non-investing and uninterested brent is continuing the theme of miserable failure. And just becuase we could see (and still can see) what was happenning doesn't make it any easier to bear. I'm not at all surprised at our predicement but I'm no less angry and dissappointed. If you want happy clappy acceptance of all things shit, all things brent, expulsion from the FL and probable liquidation then go to pasoti. They're celebrating our shitness. I will continue to slate the twats destroying our club whether you like it or not.

Good post, Freathmeister.It just doesn't seem to be understood in some quarters that criticism or adverse comment doesn't necessarily amount to disloyalty.The history of our club shows that being loyal and sibmissive to the decisions taken by an assortment of turds allegedly directing the fortunes of Argyle has never paid dividends and inevitably results in decline.Doubtless it will soon be time to blame Sid Smith of Southway for our travails.When you see the careers that the players sold off in 2008 have had and the careers that people like Barnes,Noone,Mackie,Doumbe [he scored against the ghastly Greeks yesterday],Johnson,Mason etc are having,it makes you want to fecking spit.

Trust in Stapes!

Mr Brent attends every home match.... yes or no?

Where can you find him before a match?

Washington Irving once said 'A barking dog is often more useful than a sleeping lion'

I see myself as a bit of a barking dog, I tend to play my heart on my sleeve and i speak up when i think something is wrong, or i dont agree with it. I plan to go and speak to Mr Brent who is clearly oblivious to the fact that relegation will ruin OUR football club and whatever business plans he had and tell him that Lord Fletcher has to go for us to stand any chance of staying in this division.

If someone could answer my questions on where JB's whereabouts is before a game then it would be very much appreciated.

Monti.

E - I - E - I - E - I - O
Down the Football league we go
When we're in the Blue Square
The Green Tints still will sing
Carl Fletcher Carl Fletcher Carl Fletcher's King

I agree with some of what Sensible has said. Why should we keep being surprised at losing and being in the relegation places, on the verge of dropping out of the Football League? We have a rookie 31 yr old manager with inexperienced backroom staff. We have been through a period of administration and been taken over by someone who admits who knows nothing about football, and who hasn't spent a penny in transfer fees since taking over. I also doubt that the players he has brought in are on astronomical wages for a League 2 side, with the exception maybe of Darren Purse. Paul Wotton may even be paying Argyle to play he loves the club so much.

The problem could be that too many of us thought that when a multi-millionaire successful businessman took us over, that despite him saying that he would be no Sugar Daddy, he would surely splash the cash because dropping down to the BSP would not be financially advantageous to him. Well maybe it won't be. It possibly won't make any difference to him personally if we keep dropping down leagues, due to having a nice piece of Real Estate that will earn him good money irrespective of which league Argyle are in. Grovehill on Pasoti is lambasted for keep asking the question "how much has Brent spent on acquiring the club?" and he never gets the answer. There are so many people on Pasoti with their finger on the pulse, that are friendly with Mr Brent and have inside knowledge on all things Argyle, and maybe they don't really know how much Brent has paid for his Real Estate.

Most fans still believe that James Brent saved Argyle from extinction, which I don't believe for one minute. The way it was portrayed to the masses was that it was either nice, quietly spoken, doing it as a last resort rather than see a club go to the wall, or nasty twisted face(remember the photo they always showed?) Kevin Heaney with a dodgy reputation, in a marriage with Peter Ridsdale and almost certainly a front for some of the old directors looking to minimise their losses, and of course it was no contest.

Well Brent has subsequently been shown to be an extremely astute, hard nosed businessman, and not quite the mild mannered Harry Potter figure riding into town on a white horse to save the day out of the goodness of his heart. Obviously there is nothing wrong with being a hard nosed successful businessman who is going to make some money along the way, but how many potential other options were put off by Guilfoyle's "exclusivity" price of £1 million? And when Heaney agreed to stump up the £1 million, surely it was a foregone conclusion that he would takeover the club because who would risk a non-refundable £1 million, if they weren't about to complete a deal? I blame Guilfoyle for this, and his association with Ridsdale, as the payment was never made in full, and the deadline to pay the remaining £700k or so kept getting extended until it became too difficult for even Guilfoyle to keep stalling.

We know of a couple of other people who were supposedly interested, but who knows who else expressed an interest to Guilfoyle or Ridsdale, only to be led up the garden path with tales of how much it would actually cost to buy the club? Figures that could well be a fraction of what it has actually cost.

So it could be that Brent was astute enough to see certain fans had the backing of the rest of the fanbase, and by getting them onside, they also had the majority of the fanbase. Meaning that any small dissenting voices would easily be drowned out. I'm not suggesting for a moment that anyone has been paid off by Brent, just that it would only have taken the right noises to be made in the right ears, to ensure the support of a whole army, who quite rightly didn't want Heaney and Ridsdale carving up the club for profit alone.

Who's to say that someone with bucketloads of cash who were given a clearer picture of what it would actually cost to acquire Argyle, wouldn't have snapped it up and were ready to make real investment in a decent manager and some better players? The potential is here, always has been, for Argyle to be a comfortable Champonship side and with real investment, even progress to the Premier League.

So now were teetering on the edge of oblivion, and surely if it was going to be a financial disaster for the club to suffer a third straight relegation, but this time out of the Football League, then I reckon Mr Brent would have done everything possible to make sure it didn't happen. Why wouldn't such an astute businessman? For Christ's sake how much would it cost to guarantee not being one of the two worst teams in the entire Football League? Not a great deal compared to the loss of revenue from dropping out of the League surely? So is it that the value of the Real Estate is so great that Brent could easily afford to take a hit on the gates for a year or two before he starts making serious money from the land that comes with the club? And then he could relinquish the football side of things to a bunch of mug fans who have stumped up some of their own money for a stake in the club. Maybe I'm being too cynical by far but thats the way it appears to me at the moment, and I'm not someone who believes that 911 was carried out by the U.S. Government, or that the moon landings never actually happened. I usually take things on face value.

So it would appear that we're now stuck with Fletcher and Co, unless he walks away and John Deehan takes over, but I honestly don't think John Deehan would make that much difference in such a short space of time. We had the opportunity to get Sean O'Driscoll on the staff, but of course it would have meant paying him a decent wage, so we let him slip through our fingers. John Deehan would have been a far cheaper option, and certainly not Fletcher's first choice of mentor. We also had the ideal opportunity when Brent first took over to say "Thanks Carl" for taking over the reins in an emergency, now we need you back on the pitch battling to keep us up, and meanwhile unveiling a real manager who could have pulled us out of the mess we were in then, and still are now. But again, this would have cost money, and as it was, we gained a rookie manager without having to pay him anymore than he was already on, lost Peter Reids salary and lost our best player! People will say that it was Ridsdale that appointed Fletcher, and of course it was, but would James Brent take over a hotel that was losing money rapidly and keep on the same staff and manager because they were appointed by someone else? Of course he wouldn't.

So anyway we are were we are and although I am pessimistic about surviving this season, it isn't quite over yet and we do only need to be the 3rd most shite team in the entire Football League to stay up so it could well happen. If it does, and I can honestly say that nothing would hurt me more than to drop into the BSP, it's what happens next season or the one after that which worries me. We could keep just about being better than two shite teams for years with little or no investment, but one day we won't. It doesn't matter how big a club we think we are, and gates will drop once people have had enough of watching dross week after week with no possibilty of going upwards, and why should people keep shelling out £20 just to watch that crap, before any money spent on food and drinks etc? There are so many other things people can do with their hard earned money, which would just leave us with the die-hard couple of thousand who would watch if Argyle were in The Southern Premier League.

It's all my opinion obviously but I have seen and heard so much in the last year that I can't believe that James Brent is too bothered what League we are in. It doesn't mean I have given up on Argyle, I'm just being realistic unfortunately.

Charlie Wood wrote:

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

I'm a comparative new comer on this site but I have picked up the fact that numerous people who post on here have predicted the inevitable slide down the leagues for the last 3 years and have also been predicting the present situation to continue. Why then all the angst and why not just a shrug and resignation now that what you said would happen is indeed happening. There surely cannot be any who are shocked if you saw it all in your crystal ball.

Why have a go at those who still don't want to believe what is happening? They may be wrong but it doesn't make somebody stupid if they don't want to accept relegation yet. They will so just give them a bit of time. I don't want to believe it either but have slowly come around to the thought it most probably will happen but it always takes some people longer than others in anything.

SG, I've pretty much shrugged my shoulders. At 58 and after 50 years I've accepted there's more to life than fecking Plymouth Argyle. I'm in my holiday home in South Africa and I have a wardrobe full of Argo shirts that don't see the light of day now, I'm fed up explaining our place in the football pyramid. Shame and embarrassment are the two emotions I feel when my thoughts turn to my football club. I rarely post on Pasoti now, it's just been too depressing swimming against the tide but this site is an oasis of sanity and has posters who REALLY care about what's happened. I'm very disappointed with PJ but can only assume other voices have had more influence with JB about Fletcher. Brent's first action on taking over should have been to replace Fletcher as the first move of a clean sweep. Staying with a rookie manager who has been integral in the two previous relegations and as such fallen into the acceptance of failure was a glaring mistake. It's too late now to do anything effective, the dice have been rolled and we can only hope lady luck sees us through. It should never have come to that though.

Charlie, that's exactly it for me. I'm the same vintage as you and I never, ever thought that the golf course on a Saturday afternoon would be preferable to a trip to Home Park and the match day experience. There was always that air of excitement, now it's just resignation and to be honest, I just cannot be bothered. This club must have had countless thousands of pounds of my money over the years, and what have they done with it - bugger all.

The first inklings set in for me during the Holloway era, and the consortium that wanted to invest. I was close to that, and couldn't believe the amount of venom and abuse towards a set of people who actually wanted to help the club and move it forward, together with the 'trust in Stapes' mantra that was the thing at that particular time. Interesting that some of those venomous individuals now profess to hate the guy with a passion, and 'trust in Brent'. It's all horribly familiar.

Pasoti now just makes you ashamed to be an Argyle fan, Webb and Newell's influence have turned a once interesting site into an internet version of a fan fest, where everyone must be happy clappy, and not mention that nasty relegation word, because it's not going to happen, and even if it does, well, we've still got a club to support.

The whole Argyle brand just lacks professionalism, from the inane rantings on twitter of the President, to the inexperience of the Chairman, to the performances on the pitch.

It could have been all so much better.

Jock, well thought out and well written. I think you've covered it all there.

I concur.

Merv Plummer

From an outsider looking in, it would appear that you have Fletcher because you are financially strapped and cannot afford a manager with experience and a proven record.

Who would you replace him with?

Who could you realistically afford and who would risk their managerial career at a Club where the worst (financially) may not be behind you. This isn't meant as a dig, just a reality check. A few months ago you were going out of business, you were bottom of the League and dead certs for relegation, you need to learn your lessons or you will follow the same cycle as the likes of Portsmouth.

I think you will stay up (god knows I want you in the Conference) and Fletcher will be the manager to get you out of the League next season. I hope I am wrong

The Red Star wrote:

From an outsider looking in, it would appear that you have Fletcher because you are financially strapped and cannot afford a manager with experience and a proven record.

Who would you replace him with?

Who could you realistically afford and who would risk their managerial career at a Club where the worst (financially) may not be behind you. This isn't meant as a dig, just a reality check. A few months ago you were going out of business, you were bottom of the League and dead certs for relegation, you need to learn your lessons or you will follow the same cycle as the likes of Portsmouth.

I think you will stay up (god knows I want you in the Conference) and Fletcher will be the manager to get you out of the League next season. I hope I am wrong

Clarification needed. In which direction?

The Red Star wrote:

From an outsider looking in, it would appear that you have Fletcher because you are financially strapped and cannot afford a manager with experience and a proven record.

Who would you replace him with?

Who could you realistically afford and who would risk their managerial career at a Club where the worst (financially) may not be behind you. This isn't meant as a dig, just a reality check. A few months ago you were going out of business, you were bottom of the League and dead certs for relegation, you need to learn your lessons or you will follow the same cycle as the likes of Portsmouth.

I think you will stay up (god knows I want you in the Conference) and Fletcher will be the manager to get you out of the League next season. I hope I am wrong

Seeing as you rate him so highly, do you fancy a swap ?

Ladies please untwist your knickers for a moment and give yourself some relief for god sake. Where did I say anything about having a go at the Management was wrong or disloyal or anything of the kind? Read it again.

What I said was that some people take a bit longer than others to see the signs which is unfortunately a fact of life. What the "happy clappers" as somebody called them are doing is clinging on to a hope at the moment and they don't want to see the iceberg their Titanic is heading for. They aren't bad people just because of that and to brand them as stupid is a tad unkind. They are not stupid just slightly blindfolded currently. A number of you have been predicting this for a couple of years or even more so you don't have the blindfolds to see through. You can shrug your shoulders already as the inevitable you predicted comes true. You might be angry but you can't say you are shocked can you. If you expect something then it isn't a surprise is it.

Most football fans don't go in for the politics of the Boardroom or look into the bigger picture of actions of a club. They pay to go and watch their club play on a Saturday and get used to the happiness or otherwise depending on that days result. The rest is nothing to do with them as they see it. Some of you on the other hand think it is but they are not at fault for not being clued up or wise. To blame 6000 supporters who continue to go on a Saturday for anything is a bit strong. If you thought all this was going to end this way what did you actually do yourselves to stop it? Stop going? Write to the Herald? Stand outside the ground on a soapbox? Just because you may have seen it coming did not mean you could stop it no matter how clued up you were. If you could have you would have wouldn't you.

Freathy, one for you in particular. Telling somebody who voices an opinion on here to basically feck off and join PASOTI is exactly what PASOTI tells people who don't agree with them. Have you read the "go support another club" posts. You sound just like them when you come out with that. If ATD is democratic then it is able to support all kinds of views without the publisher being told to go somewhere else. So I will continue to give my own opinion thanks and if you don't agree with it then please feel free to answer it on here as often as you like or ignore it as not worth a response.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

Ladies please untwist your knickers for a moment and give yourself some relief for god sake. Where did I say anything about having a go at the Management was wrong or disloyal or anything of the kind? Read it again.

What I said was that some people take a bit longer than others to see the signs which is unfortunately a fact of life. What the "happy clappers" as somebody called them are doing is clinging on to a hope at the moment and they don't want to see the iceberg their Titanic is heading for. They aren't bad people just because of that and to brand them as stupid is a tad unkind. They are not stupid just slightly blindfolded currently. A number of you have been predicting this for a couple of years or even more so you don't have the blindfolds to see through. You can shrug your shoulders already as the inevitable you predicted comes true. You might be angry but you can't say you are shocked can you. If you expect something then it isn't a surprise is it.

Most football fans don't go in for the politics of the Boardroom or look into the bigger picture of actions of a club. They pay to go and watch their club play on a Saturday and get used to the happiness or otherwise depending on that days result. The rest is nothing to do with them as they see it. Some of you on the other hand think it is but they are not at fault for not being clued up or wise. To blame 6000 supporters who continue to go on a Saturday for anything is a bit strong. If you thought all this was going to end this way what did you actually do yourselves to stop it? Stop going? Write to the Herald? Stand outside the ground on a soapbox? Just because you may have seen it coming did not mean you could stop it no matter how clued up you were. If you could have you would have wouldn't you.

Freathy, one for you in particular. Telling somebody who voices an opinion on here to basically feck off and join PASOTI is exactly what PASOTI tells people who don't agree with them. Have you read the "go support another club" posts. You sound just like them when you come out with that. If ATD is democratic then it is able to support all kinds of views without the publisher being told to go somewhere else. So I will continue to give my own opinion thanks and if you don't agree with it then please feel free to answer it on here as often as you like or ignore it as not worth a response.

So,are you saying that fan pressure has never had any effect on decisions taken at football clubs? Do me a favour,please.And why is it "not their fault for not being clued up or wise"? Linking this to the subject of the bigger picture,it could well be argued that 10000 fans have looked at it since 2005 and seen that the club was inevitably going to fail to progress and then just as inevitably decline.

So the sum total of action by the ones who saw the light was what? They stopped going. Wow excuse me for being underwhelmed at that. The affect in the Boardroom was such at this action that they............wait for it...........did absolutely feck all to change. The only time there was any direct action was when Administration was already in and the thought was that the club would be liquidated. Prior to that the demonstrations by this 10000 people who saw the iceberg approaching was when exactly? You people grunted into your pint in the pub and tutted loudly is about all you did practically so why blame the other 6000 for the downfall.

The Red Star wrote:

Who would you replace him with?

That's the one thing which really worries me. If Fletcher goes we almost certainly get Deehan in charge. Though a decent experienced manager would almost certainly have seen us go on a run of results (ie two or three wins in a row) by now to take us clear, we have at least been picking up odd win which *could* be enough come May. I don't trust Deehan enough to continue even that. I've never heard of him. Trust in Brent.

Ffarquhar wrote:

The Red Star wrote:

From an outsider looking in, it would appear that you have Fletcher because you are financially strapped and cannot afford a manager with experience and a proven record.

Who would you replace him with?

Who could you realistically afford and who would risk their managerial career at a Club where the worst (financially) may not be behind you. This isn't meant as a dig, just a reality check. A few months ago you were going out of business, you were bottom of the League and dead certs for relegation, you need to learn your lessons or you will follow the same cycle as the likes of Portsmouth.

I think you will stay up (god knows I want you in the Conference) and Fletcher will be the manager to get you out of the League next season. I hope I am wrong

Seeing as you rate him so highly, do you fancy a swap ?

I don't rate him, I just don't rate your ability to attract quality candidates to the role. You are the 2nd worst side in the entire football league, Fletcher is your level.

i dont think they'll be any change this season now, we have to hope for the best.
maybe we'll get a loan signing from somewhere ?????????????

two seasons ago mariner who should never have been in charge took us down when it was obvious he wasnt up to it, same with fletcher (possibly), but there is no one left at the club from that time expect flecther himself !!!!!!!

its upto the players now, do they want to be the ones who fail ? its in their hands now.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

So the sum total of action by the ones who saw the light was what? They stopped going. Wow excuse me for being underwhelmed at that. The affect in the Boardroom was such at this action that they............wait for it...........did absolutely feck all to change. The only time there was any direct action was when Administration was already in and the thought was that the club would be liquidated. Prior to that the demonstrations by this 10000 people who saw the iceberg approaching was when exactly? You people grunted into your pint in the pub and tutted loudly is about all you did practically so why blame the other 6000 for the downfall.

Get real mate. A few disaffected visionaries, expelled from the farm for spouting their bile, could achieve what exactly? They were being ridiculed and silenced by the online community. who were protecting those destroying the club.
Nothing seems to have changed in 2012.
Look how far we've come

Greenjock wrote:

I agree with some of what Sensible has said. Why should we keep being surprised at losing and being in the relegation places, on the verge of dropping out of the Football League? We have a rookie 31 yr old manager with inexperienced backroom staff. We have been through a period of administration and been taken over by someone who admits who knows nothing about football, and who hasn't spent a penny in transfer fees since taking over. I also doubt that the players he has brought in are on astronomical wages for a League 2 side, with the exception maybe of Darren Purse. Paul Wotton may even be paying Argyle to play he loves the club so much.

The problem could be that too many of us thought that when a multi-millionaire successful businessman took us over, that despite him saying that he would be no Sugar Daddy, he would surely splash the cash because dropping down to the BSP would not be financially advantageous to him. Well maybe it won't be. It possibly won't make any difference to him personally if we keep dropping down leagues, due to having a nice piece of Real Estate that will earn him good money irrespective of which league Argyle are in. Grovehill on Pasoti is lambasted for keep asking the question "how much has Brent spent on acquiring the club?" and he never gets the answer. There are so many people on Pasoti with their finger on the pulse, that are friendly with Mr Brent and have inside knowledge on all things Argyle, and maybe they don't really know how much Brent has paid for his Real Estate.

Most fans still believe that James Brent saved Argyle from extinction, which I don't believe for one minute. The way it was portrayed to the masses was that it was either nice, quietly spoken, doing it as a last resort rather than see a club go to the wall, or nasty twisted face(remember the photo they always showed?) Kevin Heaney with a dodgy reputation, in a marriage with Peter Ridsdale and almost certainly a front for some of the old directors looking to minimise their losses, and of course it was no contest.

Well Brent has subsequently been shown to be an extremely astute, hard nosed businessman, and not quite the mild mannered Harry Potter figure riding into town on a white horse to save the day out of the goodness of his heart. Obviously there is nothing wrong with being a hard nosed successful businessman who is going to make some money along the way, but how many potential other options were put off by Guilfoyle's "exclusivity" price of £1 million? And when Heaney agreed to stump up the £1 million, surely it was a foregone conclusion that he would takeover the club because who would risk a non-refundable £1 million, if they weren't about to complete a deal? I blame Guilfoyle for this, and his association with Ridsdale, as the payment was never made in full, and the deadline to pay the remaining £700k or so kept getting extended until it became too difficult for even Guilfoyle to keep stalling.

We know of a couple of other people who were supposedly interested, but who knows who else expressed an interest to Guilfoyle or Ridsdale, only to be led up the garden path with tales of how much it would actually cost to buy the club? Figures that could well be a fraction of what it has actually cost.

So it could be that Brent was astute enough to see certain fans had the backing of the rest of the fanbase, and by getting them onside, they also had the majority of the fanbase. Meaning that any small dissenting voices would easily be drowned out. I'm not suggesting for a moment that anyone has been paid off by Brent, just that it would only have taken the right noises to be made in the right ears, to ensure the support of a whole army, who quite rightly didn't want Heaney and Ridsdale carving up the club for profit alone.

Who's to say that someone with bucketloads of cash who were given a clearer picture of what it would actually cost to acquire Argyle, wouldn't have snapped it up and were ready to make real investment in a decent manager and some better players? The potential is here, always has been, for Argyle to be a comfortable Champonship side and with real investment, even progress to the Premier League.

So now were teetering on the edge of oblivion, and surely if it was going to be a financial disaster for the club to suffer a third straight relegation, but this time out of the Football League, then I reckon Mr Brent would have done everything possible to make sure it didn't happen. Why wouldn't such an astute businessman? For Christ's sake how much would it cost to guarantee not being one of the two worst teams in the entire Football League? Not a great deal compared to the loss of revenue from dropping out of the League surely? So is it that the value of the Real Estate is so great that Brent could easily afford to take a hit on the gates for a year or two before he starts making serious money from the land that comes with the club? And then he could relinquish the football side of things to a bunch of mug fans who have stumped up some of their own money for a stake in the club. Maybe I'm being too cynical by far but thats the way it appears to me at the moment, and I'm not someone who believes that 911 was carried out by the U.S. Government, or that the moon landings never actually happened. I usually take things on face value.

So it would appear that we're now stuck with Fletcher and Co, unless he walks away and John Deehan takes over, but I honestly don't think John Deehan would make that much difference in such a short space of time. We had the opportunity to get Sean O'Driscoll on the staff, but of course it would have meant paying him a decent wage, so we let him slip through our fingers. John Deehan would have been a far cheaper option, and certainly not Fletcher's first choice of mentor. We also had the ideal opportunity when Brent first took over to say "Thanks Carl" for taking over the reins in an emergency, now we need you back on the pitch battling to keep us up, and meanwhile unveiling a real manager who could have pulled us out of the mess we were in then, and still are now. But again, this would have cost money, and as it was, we gained a rookie manager without having to pay him anymore than he was already on, lost Peter Reids salary and lost our best player! People will say that it was Ridsdale that appointed Fletcher, and of course it was, but would James Brent take over a hotel that was losing money rapidly and keep on the same staff and manager because they were appointed by someone else? Of course he wouldn't.

So anyway we are were we are and although I am pessimistic about surviving this season, it isn't quite over yet and we do only need to be the 3rd most shite team in the entire Football League to stay up so it could well happen. If it does, and I can honestly say that nothing would hurt me more than to drop into the BSP, it's what happens next season or the one after that which worries me. We could keep just about being better than two shite teams for years with little or no investment, but one day we won't. It doesn't matter how big a club we think we are, and gates will drop once people have had enough of watching dross week after week with no possibilty of going upwards, and why should people keep shelling out £20 just to watch that crap, before any money spent on food and drinks etc? There are so many other things people can do with their hard earned money, which would just leave us with the die-hard couple of thousand who would watch if Argyle were in The Southern Premier League.

It's all my opinion obviously but I have seen and heard so much in the last year that I can't believe that James Brent is too bothered what League we are in. It doesn't mean I have given up on Argyle, I'm just being realistic unfortunately.

People that write this sort of thing I consider to be the "praaaaaaapa" fans, people that just accept the status quo without so much as a sigh I consider to be responsible for our deserved, current misfortune.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

So the sum total of action by the ones who saw the light was what? They stopped going. Wow excuse me for being underwhelmed at that. The affect in the Boardroom was such at this action that they............wait for it...........did absolutely feck all to change. The only time there was any direct action was when Administration was already in and the thought was that the club would be liquidated. Prior to that the demonstrations by this 10000 people who saw the iceberg approaching was when exactly? You people grunted into your pint in the pub and tutted loudly is about all you did practically so why blame the other 6000 for the downfall.

For a start,i'm still one of the other 6000 who goes to HP every second saturday and do not blame others of a similar ilk for the clubs downfall.Also for your information,i was about the only person in the ground who mouthed off at Stapleton after the defeat to Hull in early 2008 [after the sale of Norris to a play off rival,the final confirmation of the boards disinterest in making progress on the pitch] and got some funny looks from those around me for doing so.I damn well wish that 5000 others had joined in with me but they didn't.Remember the "Trust in Stapes" mantra? Well, if you do,you'll also admit that this particular phrase was uppermost in the minds of a big majority of fans at the time,many of whom had been brought up with the previous years of success under the said chairman and knew no better.Some of us who had seen Janner directorates in action before in the second tier knew better and said so.It is totally unfair for you suggest that people like Tring,Reverend Jim,Mike Sainsbury and Freathy "grunted into their beer and tutted".They said their piece in about the only area available to do so,which was Pasoti,and were severly mauled for doing so.Do you really think that if they had suggested a demo against the board it would have gained sufficient support? Of course it wouldn't have,because the vast majority were still basking in the success of previous years and complacently presuming that Stapletons nonsensical utterings about "organic growth" and "making progress as other clubs fall by the wayside" were Gospel truth.The whole point of this issue is that important lessons are learnt for the future,should Argyle ever reach the heights of the second tier again-Brent has been honest enough to admit that should the club rise again,he would be unable to sustain progress above that level.Lets hope he's genuine in his public briefings and makes a real effort to bring in the material investment needed this time and which was so sadly lacking in 2004.