Argyle reported to FA for racism?

Greenjock wrote:

Ok so this has been going on for ages has it? Just no one bothered to mention it until forza verde started up? Utter bollocks.

The reports of racist chanting started around the time forza verde started up, and the reports all started on pasoti, so don't try using the atd dirty tricks rubbish either.

The club president has been asked about it and said nothing other than got huffy and tried making out I was accusing him of being a racist, which was never the case. I just can't believe that no statement condemning it has been forthcoming from within the club. Like it or not its being laughed about on pasoti, and someone who reported racist chanting was roundly abused on pasoti for having the balls to speak out against it.

Maybe it is coincidence that it seems to have increased since forza verde started up, but I would argue that the group has attracted racists as the chanting seems to keep coming frontier same area. The group is aimed at younger people and they must hear it going on and they don't see anyone from the club condemning it. Totally wrong message being sent out. This should have been stamped out straight away but no one seems willing to make a stance.

And what sort of message is sent out when someone reports it and is abuse for doing it then the posts all deleted?

Whether you consider g*po chants ad racist or not is irrelevant, the law says they are. The club could get in deep shit for this but it's ok it's just banter? Im off to bed, its like banging your head against a brick wall. feck it deduct us 10 points and hear the squeals then.

That is the key, throw your toys out the pram all you want, but i sit nowhere near that area and have heard it in the ground last season and the season before, it is anti forza verde groups that are shouting it out from the rooftops to condemn the group, just as they did when it got started. I couldnt give a rats ass about the forza verde group not my cup a tea, but groups attract attention, so if 2 idiots are being racist the whole group gets tarnished that is my point greenjock, and you know thats true, so grow up. If there were a notable level of complaints im sure the club would make a staement, but people sniping at each other on forums cannot be taken seriously.

If the complaints are there the club will act.

Greenjock wrote:

So no one has been deducted points before means it won't happen? Ok so let's break the wage cap as no one has been punished for doing that. No that would be really bad and the league are watching us like hawks remember?

No it wont for a few mindless idiots, it would have to be really extreme for that to happen, go bed get some spleep grouchy, your sarting childish rants now. goodnight

125+1 wrote:

Greenjock wrote:

So no one has been deducted points before means it won't happen? Ok so let's break the wage cap as no one has been punished for doing that. No that would be really bad and the league are watching us like hawks remember?

No it wont for a few mindless idiots, it would have to be really extreme for that to happen, go bed get some spleep grouchy, your sarting childish rants now. goodnight

Very mature debate from you, because I don't agree with you I'm grouchy and ranting and throwing my toys out of my pram? Night night then.

125+1 wrote:

but groups attract attention, so if 2 idiots are being racist the whole group gets tarnished that is my point greenjock

I dont mind being ignored 'cos I can repeat myself in a troll like manner anyway. Had the proper message been sent out from the leader of FV originally, ie, racism etc will not be tolerated under any circumstance, the drummer and choir could've easily drowned out the voices of a couple of "idiots".

Unrelated, wasn't there another fan who made a complaint a few years back?

Sketchy details says he had a complaint with the club's advertising dept, I could be wrong on this bit though. Definately sketchy details but I'm positive he got ran off PASOTI at the time. I'd be shocked if nobody remembered this.

Onwards and downwards.

Coxside_Green wrote:

Unrelated, wasn't there another fan who made a complaint a few years back?

Sketchy details says he had a complaint with the club's advertising dept, I could be wrong on this bit though. Definately sketchy details but I'm positive he got ran off PASOTI at the time. I'd be shocked if nobody remembered this.

Onwards and downwards.

Oh some of us remember it very well.

The person in question, was a key figure in the old Argyle Talk. If not the 'key' figure in its demise.!

And the charge to run him off Pasoti was lead by 'Smiffy', known today as X isle.

Rickler wrote:

Coxside_Green wrote:

Unrelated, wasn't there another fan who made a complaint a few years back?

Sketchy details says he had a complaint with the club's advertising dept, I could be wrong on this bit though. Definately sketchy details but I'm positive he got ran off PASOTI at the time. I'd be shocked if nobody remembered this.

Onwards and downwards.

Oh some of us remember it very well.

The person in question, was a key figure in the old Argyle Talk. If not the 'key' figure in its demise.!

And the charge to run him off Pasoti was lead by 'Smiffy', known today as X isle.

Yep, that's all coming back to me. PASOTI has been a crap place for a long time now.

Coxside_Green wrote:

This should've been stamped out weeks ago when problems first arose. A definitive statement from Webby categorically stating the FV group are in no way a racist group and any such behaviour will not be tolerated under any circumstances should've been issued when problems first arose. Any racist or prejudiced chanting today could've easily been drowned out by the drummer and a compliant FV.

Unfortunately it has now gotten serious where a deduction of points is possible. Time for some so-called leaders to 'step up' or leave!

At the end of the day this is about intolerance and we all have different values of when and where the line is crossed. The fact that the problem has been noticed, discussed and possibly reported would suggest that for many the line has been crossed and therefore something needs to be done about it.

This is an interesting thread, some say that football has become to PC and others say that they just will not accept this kind of behavior, but everyone seems to agree that it occurred.

So the debate seems to be whether the level of intolerance that occurred is within the realms of acceptability or not.

What I do know as a matter of fact is that these issues always become more prevalent at times of hardship, large gatherings attract those with extreme views and that without immediate condemnation the problem increases quickly and dramatically.

It's also extremely disappointing to read that the topic has been removed from the largest fan site, Pasoti. These things need to surface and to be aired and debated, they should never be hidden, swept under the carpet and views suppressed. Many youngsters are Pasoti users, they more then anyone should be aware that intolerant behavior is not accepted in society in 2012 and the best way to do that is by way of debate because the next step after that involves the law.

My fear is that the lack of condemnation by the those seen as leaders by the younger ones will only cause to give the impression that this behavior is acceptable and, as seems to be the case, the problem will grow until direct action is required, if reported it would appear that this time has come.

Just a quick note on what knecht said above. An incident was reported in the Lyndhurst (at the BP end) and I believe a statement made to the police. I spoke briefly after the match to the person who made the report and he said it was anti-Muslim abuse.

I didn't hear it but my partner commented that she thought she had heard something that ties in with your view Tim, at the Barn Park End of the Lyndhurst.

Apparently according to the masses on twatter calling him a g*po is not racist because he isn't one.

If he was a gypsy and he was called a g*po that's racist

If he isn't a gypsy but is called a g*po that's banter

So if I was to call a white person a Ni**er or a Pa*i is that banter then?

Whether it's right to report it or petty, the fact is some sections of the Argyle support are actually condoning racism and discrimination....embarrassing.

But i'm safe to make this viewpoint and not be verbally abused, threatened or harrassed at matches like some people are because the wolves do not know what I look like

The guy was a damn good footballer and a real character I would love him to play for us . A real crowd pleaser .

GOB wrote:

Coxside_Green wrote:

This should've been stamped out weeks ago when problems first arose. A definitive statement from Webby categorically stating the FV group are in no way a racist group and any such behaviour will not be tolerated under any circumstances should've been issued when problems first arose. Any racist or prejudiced chanting today could've easily been drowned out by the drummer and a compliant FV.

Unfortunately it has now gotten serious where a deduction of points is possible. Time for some so-called leaders to 'step up' or leave!

At the end of the day this is about intolerance and we all have different values of when and where the line is crossed. The fact that the problem has been noticed, discussed and possibly reported would suggest that for many the line has been crossed and therefore something needs to be done about it.

This is an interesting thread, some say that football has become to PC and others say that they just will not accept this kind of behavior, but everyone seems to agree that it occurred.

So the debate seems to be whether the level of intolerance that occurred is within the realms of acceptability or not.

What I do know as a matter of fact is that these issues always become more prevalent at times of hardship, large gatherings attract those with extreme views and that without immediate condemnation the problem increases quickly and dramatically.

It's also extremely disappointing to read that the topic has been removed from the largest fan site, Pasoti. These things need to surface and to be aired and debated, they should never be hidden, swept under the carpet and views suppressed. Many youngsters are Pasoti users, they more then anyone should be aware that intolerant behavior is not accepted in society in 2012 and the best way to do that is by way of debate because the next step after that involves the law.

My fear is that the lack of condemnation by the those seen as leaders by the younger ones will only cause to give the impression that this behavior is acceptable and, as seems to be the case, the problem will grow until direct action is required, if reported it would appear that this time has come.

Good post, GOB. It is my opine that you are a good guy on the whole, and this post backs me up.

What evidence is there that this French/Tunisian is from a gypsy background..........all the info I can find doesn't mention it......maybe he was laughing at the fans because they had got it wrong........who the hell knows...........or was there anti-moslem chanting,........that would be a problem......because he is a moslem.

Coxside_Green wrote:

Andy_Symons wrote:

Since discussion of the various incidents of racist/intolerant/bigoted behaviour and support for the EDL at recent Argyle matches has been stamped on elsewhere, maybe ATD could take a lead on this?

ATD against racism could also be added to the advertising board should it go ahead.

Agreed, good idea.

It's being discussed as I type, wording etc.

The real issue is the stance of Webb and Pasoti on this.

Seems to be they are being evasive, not answering questions and deleting whole threads without any comment.

If they stood uo and condemned racist chanting the Aviva masses would fall into line.

Tringreen wrote:

The real issue is the stance of Webb and Pasoti on this.

Seems to be they are being evasive, not answering questions and deleting whole threads without any comment.

If they stood uo and condemned racist chanting the Aviva masses would fall into line.

I do find that strange. Whatever my other issues with Chris, I know he's strongly anti-racism (as you'd expect), in fact I did mention to him a few weeks ago that I was concerned about the racist nature of some of the stuff younger supporters were posting, on Twitter particularly.

He's undoubtedly someone that the younger crowd look up to. A strongly worded statement from him could have a real impact.

As for pasoti, it's hard to see the logic behind a failure to allow the debate. No-one is disputing that the chanting happened; just as no-one disputed that the EDL chants happened a few weeks ago. The quashing of debate and the failure to condemn racist behaviour by'the site' as a whole really is a disgrace. Surely the moderators on pasoti could issue a joint statement (similar to what I've suggested for ATD, which I'm glad to see is being done) simply saying that racist behaviour, either online or at the ground, will not be tolerated? It's not difficult, and the more prevarication there is on this issue, then the more I'm drawn towards the conclusion that either they don't care, or something worse.

Andy_Symons wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

The real issue is the stance of Webb and Pasoti on this.

Seems to be they are being evasive, not answering questions and deleting whole threads without any comment.

If they stood uo and condemned racist chanting the Aviva masses would fall into line.

I do find that strange. Whatever my other issues with Chris, I know he's strongly anti-racism (as you'd expect), in fact I did mention to him a few weeks ago that I was concerned about the racist nature of some of the stuff younger supporters were posting, on Twitter particularly.

He's undoubtedly someone that the younger crowd look up to. A strongly worded statement from him could have a real impact.

As for pasoti, it's hard to see the logic behind a failure to allow the debate. No-one is disputing that the chanting happened; just as no-one disputed that the EDL chants happened a few weeks ago. The quashing of debate and the failure to condemn racist behaviour by'the site' as a whole really is a disgrace. Surely the moderators on pasoti could issue a joint statement (similar to what I've suggested for ATD, which I'm glad to see is being done) simply saying that racist behaviour, either online or at the ground, will not be tolerated? It's not difficult, and the more prevarication there is on this issue, then the more I'm drawn towards the conclusion that either they don't care, or something worse.

Sadly, it wouldn't be the first time that stone throwers actually lived in a glass house. :arrow:

I was in the Devonport right amongst the "G**O where's your caravan" chanting.It went on for some time and by a large number of people aimed at their no 14 David Martin,the fact that he played to the gallery is irrelevant,the ref has the power to book him for incitement.The whole thing was unpleasant and uncomfortable and disgraceful given there were several kids sitting in that area.One unpleasant individual a few rows behind was warned by other fans as he became more threatening in his abuse "f***k you g**o" ringing out loud and clear complete with clenched fists.This is racism as I understand it KICK IT OUT.I will be contacting the club given Brent want's us to have a pleasant customer experience-well it was'nt.I have been going to football games all my life and have heard most things-but i don't want this repeated.If PASOTI is trying to cover this up that is equally disgraceful.

akagreengull wrote:

I was in the Devonport right amongst the "G**O where's your caravan" chanting.It went on for some time and by a large number of people aimed at their no 14 David Martin,the fact that he played to the gallery is irrelevant,the ref has the power to book him for incitement.The whole thing was unpleasant and uncomfortable and disgraceful given there were several kids sitting in that area.One unpleasant individual a few rows behind was warned by other fans as he became more threatening in his abuse "f***k you g**o" ringing out loud and clear complete with clenched fists.This is racism as I understand it KICK IT OUT.I will be contacting the club given Brent want's us to have a pleasant customer experience-well it was'nt.I have been going to football games all my life and have heard most things-but i don't want this repeated.If PASOTI is trying to cover this up that is equally disgraceful.

Cover it up ? The thread lasted several pages with no input from mods or the usual suspects, then simply disappeared with no explanation.

Obviously, just like the odious chanting, it simply didn't happen.

What has happened to that forum ?

Unexplained censorship, the first act of a dictatorship.

It comes across as the majority on here almost want forza verde to be deemed racist to have a pop at chris.

These chants have being going on for years, but no one ever said anything, now we have a scapegoat in FV everyone's suddenly speaks up.

Pathetic, and ruining some fun at the football.

I've said it before on this thread and i'll say it again... There is a line, and that line wasnt crossed yesterday.

I didn't view it as racism. Serious banter aimed at unsettling Southend.

No different to Exeter fans chanting Gyppo and Where's your caravan? at Andy Carroll. That went on for just as long as 'our' chanting yesterday and their player seemed to take it in good stead.

If it was evident that their player was upset and taking it personally, then it would have been wrong, but that was blatantly not the case.

Anyone screaming about f--king pakis and Moslems should be ejected immediately. There is no place for racism in football.

As others have said, it's a fine line, but I don't think it was crossed yesterday.

monti wrote:

It comes across as the majority on here almost want forza verde to be deemed racist to have a pop at chris.

These chants have being going on for years, but no one ever said anything, now we have a scapegoat in FV everyone's suddenly speaks up.

Pathetic, and ruining some fun at the football.

I've said it before on this thread and i'll say it again... There is a line, and that line wasnt crossed yesterday.

I really don't think it's an excuse to have a pop at Chris, Monti. He just has created a situation where he has been the first port of call when fans have an issue to raise ... especially regarding the 'Ultra' thing.
This is a concern that many people have regarding increasing racist behaviour at Argyle game ... full stop. The club was quick enough to act a couple of years ago with racist behaviour in the Mayflower behind the away dug out.

Sadly, football has increasingly attracted morons, particularly since the 60's. Foul and abusive chanting naturally escalates and has and can lead to violence.

We all know these songs and most of us used to join in. I don't anymore as I find them cringeworthy and know what they can lead to and how others can be offended.

Lines have to be drawn somewhere. So abusing gypsies is ok but moslems isn't ? ................ bizarre.

Even some of the pasoti posters are asking- seems very poor that a whole thread on an issue is deleted without comment. As Tim has suggested a simple comment/ reminder on non-acceptance of racism should be issued-

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el salvador
Post subject: Threads deleted?Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:32 am
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:23 pm
Posts: 39
why are threads deleted every time a good discussion is about to or is taking place?

I logged off here at 11.30 last night after writing something quite controversial, but in my opinion true. I came on to see what everyone had thought of it and it's gone.

Mods - please answer. Why do you feel the need to delete everything? Thats 4 or 5 in the last 24 hours.


pedro63
Post subject: Re: Threads deleted?Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:35 am
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:06 pm
Posts: 116

Will you get an answer????

Zaha
Post subject: Re: Threads deleted?Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:35 am
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:21 pm
Posts: 597

No this thread will get deleted