Argyle reported to FA for racism?

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

Lets all just live in a humourless sterile world where nothing can be said about anything then. I don't care what you say, there are times when things said are meant as humourous banter and times when said in hatred. There was an exchange between some posters last night, me included, that stereotyped Glaswegian diet aimed at greenjock. I think he took it in good part as it was intended but in your world it is clearly racism. Should it have been moded and because it is still there why wasn't it?

Agreed, its just having a laugh at the football. Nothing meant by it

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

Lets all just live in a humourless sterile world where nothing can be said about anything then. I don't care what you say, there are times when things said are meant as humourous banter and times when said in hatred. There was an exchange between some posters last night, me included, that stereotyped Glaswegian diet aimed at greenjock. I think he took it in good part as it was intended but in your world it is clearly racism. Should it have been moded and because it is still there why wasn't it?

It's not my site. Even if it was I might leave it because the logic is non-existant.

In my world "banter" has a bit of good nature and humour. If you think calling somebody "Gippo" to deliberately insult them is good natured or funny when it was clearly chanted to slag Mr Longhair (whoever he was) off then there's no point me continuing because you will never get it.

It must be just you and me then monti. And by the way you look a complete clown in that outfit. Go on report me I dare you.

monti wrote:

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

Lets all just live in a humourless sterile world where nothing can be said about anything then. I don't care what you say, there are times when things said are meant as humourous banter and times when said in hatred. There was an exchange between some posters last night, me included, that stereotyped Glaswegian diet aimed at greenjock. I think he took it in good part as it was intended but in your world it is clearly racism. Should it have been moded and because it is still there why wasn't it?

Agreed, its just having a laugh at the football. Nothing meant by it

Then why chant it?

Was it to encourage him? Of course not.

For someone who can't be bothered to carry on the conversation you are doing pretty well at it mate. No there is no point as in this instance it was chanted in humour and was taken as humourous by the player. Personally I don't chant anything but I am capable of observation unless you think I'm not which could be an affliction and therefore unneccesarily insulting in your world.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

Lets all just live in a humourless sterile world where nothing can be said about anything then. I don't care what you say, there are times when things said are meant as humourous banter and times when said in hatred. There was an exchange between some posters last night, me included, that stereotyped Glaswegian diet aimed at greenjock. I think he took it in good part as it was intended but in your world it is clearly racism. Should it have been moded and because it is still there why wasn't it?

You also took the piss out of my choice of football teams

But seriously if another Scotsman saw those coments and took offence, that is racism, like it or not. If the player was a Gypsy he would have found it an insulting chant, so if anyone in the ground who heard it was offended by it, then Argyle could be in trouble. Whether it's right or wrong Pasoti have brushed something under the carpet that could mean trouble.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

monti wrote:

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

Lets all just live in a humourless sterile world where nothing can be said about anything then. I don't care what you say, there are times when things said are meant as humourous banter and times when said in hatred. There was an exchange between some posters last night, me included, that stereotyped Glaswegian diet aimed at greenjock. I think he took it in good part as it was intended but in your world it is clearly racism. Should it have been moded and because it is still there why wasn't it?

Agreed, its just having a laugh at the football. Nothing meant by it

Then why chant it?

Was it to encourage him? Of course not.

Of course not, it's just some banter at a football match at a opponents expense! These players get coached to deal with things like that, i'm sure he would have forgotton all about it already! Only at argyle would you get something like this dragging on.

You have teams like united and leeds chanting about horrible disasters, barnsley fans allegedly chanting about billy sharps son, i could go on with different teams chanting horrible things but when argyle fans have a bit of banter with a player who could obviously dish it out himself they're devils!

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

It must be just you and me then monti. And by the way you look a complete clown in that outfit. Go on report me I dare you.

Already have.

Big meany.

For what it's worth I agree with you greenjock regarding the Argyle could be in trouble bit. I can also see why they could be as I'm not completly in my dotage just yet. But I am merely stating my opinion that the chanting was simply meant as fun and was in no way hatred led which would have been fairly evident to a lot of people if they were there and saw and heard it with the reaction it got. If it has been taken in any other way by anyone, as it seems it has been, then Argyle could suffer for it. I am not and never have denied that.

The difference between Jock banter and Gypsy banter is that the Scottish haven't been seriously persecuted for several centuries now, and, by and large there is little discernable difference between those on either side of the border. I think it is an education thing...Gypsy legislation took a very long time in coming and it is certainly seen as less serious than other types of racism (even in the media - check out the Daily Mail's take on gypsy rights). I suspect that a significant portion of those chanting it on Saturday would abhor racism against blacks, jews, etc. That doesn't make it right, though.

What a load of PC crap ! Chants of this type have been used at football matches up & down the country since time immemorial. Chris Hargreaves even used it in the title of his latest book after being the subject of it in virtually even game he played in.

I have heard it sung at HP countless times both by home & away fans without anyone batting an eyelid, "victims" include Hargreaves, Paul Mcgregor, Andy Carroll, Freddie Eastwood, Jonas Gutiérrez & Fabricio Colocinni.

Since when has being a Gypsy in the UK been a race anyway, its a lifestyle choice ! If anyone thinks the police have time to be in the slightest bit interested in this they should think again.

Since discussion of the various incidents of racist/intolerant/bigoted behaviour and support for the EDL at recent Argyle matches has been stamped on elsewhere, maybe ATD could take a lead on this?

A simple statement on the home page opposing such behaviour and calling on all Argyle supporters to condemn racism and report any racist behaviour would send out a clear message that this site at least takes the problem seriously.

Whatever posters' views on the latest incident may be, there seems to be a rise in reports of racist behaviour by Argyle 'supporters'. I would hope that everyone who posts on here would wish action to be taken so that these incidents are dealt with.

Andy_Symons wrote:

Since discussion of the various incidents of racist/intolerant/bigoted behaviour and support for the EDL at recent Argyle matches has been stamped on elsewhere, maybe ATD could take a lead on this?

ATD against racism could also be added to the advertising board should it go ahead.

I spent some time this afternoon with someone who sat in the Lindy. He drew the stewards' attention at half time to a couple who were not behaving themselves. At first I thought he was simply complaining about their swearing but I then discovered that they were shouting racist insults at the guy with long hair. They were calling him a "effing Muslim c***". That is racist (and before any pedant wants to come in on that to point out it's a religion not a racial group ...... I know). In the Lindy I later heard one shout of "effing Gippo". That's racist. That isn't on. To say it has always been like that at football misses the point that things have moved on. We have learnt the effect of insult, stereotyping and marginalising groups. It's not on. Full stop.

I have teased dtt about his club. He knows no better. But it is ok (I think??) between internet friends. I used to tease a close friend of mine who is gay - but she gave as good as she got because we were friends - we trusted each other. I have used the throwaway phrase "McScotsman" to describe the new signing. I genuinely had forgotten his name. Acceptable? I actually considered it before I typed it. My dad was a Scot. Ironically, I have discovered the new player's name is McDonald - and my father was part of the McDonald clan. The point of my wittering on about this was I discovered in recent years that my father often used to come home from his job in the yard angry & upset. My mother only told me fairly recently - we children had no sense of this at the time. Apparently, he regularly got teased by his work-mates about his Scottishness. He would laugh and go along with the jokes. He was short but hard as nails and could have handled himself very well. But he chose to laugh and go along with the jokes but it got to him and he couldn't show it. I never got along with my dad but when I learnt that I felt very sorry for him having to put up with that. It was "only banter"? Not to him.

I'm with Sir Frank on this one. Any discriminatory chanting or abuse directed at anybody is wrong. On the other hand, I thought the ref was useless today and Young was poor - to say that is acceptable, I think.

Im a little lost in this, so chanting "someone" is a gypsy is racist chanting.

Would it be any better if they chanted "someone" is a traveller!

so the ITV programmes "my big fat gypsy wedding" is a racist title

I think its a little ott myself.

Lets cut out chanting altogether

You fat bastard - is sizist shouldnt be used

You dirty bastard - implies the player doesnt wash, defanitive statement

Your going home in a devon ambulance - threatening behaviour

All getting childish now. we can go on and on

Racist and homophobic chanting stamp it out, but we have to be carefull not to take away the banter between fans.

I agree its a fine line.

125+1 wrote:

Im a little lost in this, so chanting "someone" is a gypsy is racist chanting.

Would it be any better if they chanted "someone" is a traveller!

so the ITV programmes "my big fat gypsy wedding" is a racist title

I think its a little ott myself.

Lets cut out chanting altogether

You fat bastard - is sizist shouldnt be used

You dirty bastard - implies the player doesnt wash, defanitive statement

Your going home in a devon ambulance - threatening behaviour

All getting childish now. we can go on and on

Racist and homophobic chanting stamp it out, but we have to be carefull not to take away the banter between fans.

I agree its a fine line.

The Gypsy wedding programme is not racist because it is about Gypsies.

It would have been just as bad to call Mr Longhair a traveller because he is not one.

"Gippo" was used to insult. That allocates a negative aspect to the description. That is racist.

Fat? I've done that one already.

Dirty? Not usually used to imply a covering of mud is it? It is a response to something that a player has chosen to do and not what he is and has no control over. This is not racist.

Bastard? Insulting but not racist. Definitely prejudiced though. Hardly his fault if he is illegitimate, is it? Best avoided.

None of this is difficult.

125+1 wrote:

Im a little lost in this, so chanting "someone" is a gypsy is racist chanting.

Would it be any better if they chanted "someone" is a traveller!

so the ITV programmes "my big fat gypsy wedding" is a racist title

I think its a little ott myself.

Lets cut out chanting altogether

You fat bastard - is sizist shouldnt be used

You dirty bastard - implies the player doesnt wash, defanitive statement

Your going home in a devon ambulance - threatening behaviour

All getting childish now. we can go on and on

Racist and homophobic chanting stamp it out, but we have to be carefull not to take away the banter between fans.

I agree its a fine line.

So you Muslim c*** is just a bit of banter between fans eh? feckin unbelievable. Just gloss over that bit then eh and brush it all under the carpet like the mode did on pasoti with the whole thread.

Racist chants have been reported several times now and the silence from the club and the president is deafening because it coincides with the ultras group starting up. Dress it up all you like, feck it why not go the whole hog and say it's ok because you don't get many darkies in Devon and Cornwall. It's like living in the 18th century sometimes supporting argyle.

Happy to accept what they get told without question because it's easier than having a mind of your own. Calling someone a Muslim c*** is bigotry and a criminal offence, just like calling them a g*po is. If you don't like it take it up with the law courts instead of defending it ffs.

Ask Chris what he would do if a postal worker reported being called a Muslim c*** by the boss. feckin totally different story then. You wouldn't be able to shut him up. Hope atd and the trust release a statement condemning it all, then people could choose whether to laugh about it on pasoti, like they're still doing on the forza verde thread today's atmosphere, or downright condemn it.

Greenjock wrote:

125+1 wrote:

Im a little lost in this, so chanting "someone" is a gypsy is racist chanting.

Would it be any better if they chanted "someone" is a traveller!

so the ITV programmes "my big fat gypsy wedding" is a racist title

I think its a little ott myself.

Lets cut out chanting altogether

You fat bastard - is sizist shouldnt be used

You dirty bastard - implies the player doesnt wash, defanitive statement

Your going home in a devon ambulance - threatening behaviour

All getting childish now. we can go on and on

Racist and homophobic chanting stamp it out, but we have to be carefull not to take away the banter between fans.

I agree its a fine line.

So you Muslim c*** is just a bit of banter between fans eh? feckin unbelievable. Just gloss over that bit then eh and brush it all under the carpet like the mode did on pasoti with the whole thread.

Racist chants have been reported several times now and the silence from the club and the president is deafening because it coincides with the ultras group starting up. Dress it up all you like, feck it why not go the whole hog and say it's ok because you don't get many darkies in Devon and Cornwall. It's like living in the 18th century sometimes supporting argyle.

Happy to accept what they get told without question because it's easier than having a mind of your own. Calling someone a Muslim c*** is bigotry and a criminal offence, just like calling them a g*po is. If you don't like it take it up with the law courts instead of defending it ffs.

Ask Chris what he would do if a postal worker reported being called a Muslim c*** by the boss. feckin totally different story then. You wouldn't be able to shut him up. Hope atd and the trust release a statement condemning it all, then people could choose whether to laugh about it on pasoti, like they're still doing on the forza verde thread today's atmosphere, or downright condemn it.

You obviously cant read greenjock because nothing i said above accepts racist chanting but there is a fine line between racism and banter.

Being a black guy, i know the differance more than many, who are simply just using this to have another go a forza verde. The chanting was there before the group started and will be there long after its finished, lets not condone a whole group of people because of a few mindless idiots.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

125+1 wrote:

Im a little lost in this, so chanting "someone" is a gypsy is racist chanting.

Would it be any better if they chanted "someone" is a traveller!

so the ITV programmes "my big fat gypsy wedding" is a racist title

I think its a little ott myself.

Lets cut out chanting altogether

You fat bastard - is sizist shouldnt be used

You dirty bastard - implies the player doesnt wash, defanitive statement

Your going home in a devon ambulance - threatening behaviour

All getting childish now. we can go on and on

Racist and homophobic chanting stamp it out, but we have to be carefull not to take away the banter between fans.

I agree its a fine line.

The Gypsy wedding programme is not racist because it is about Gypsies.

It would have been just as bad to call Mr Longhair a traveller because he is not one.

"Gippo" was used to insult. That allocates a negative aspect to the description. That is racist.

Fat? I've done that one already.

Dirty? Not usually used to imply a covering of mud is it? It is a response to something that a player has chosen to do and not what he is and has no control over. This is not racist.

Bastard? Insulting but not racist. Definitely prejudiced though. Hardly his fault if he is illegitimate, is it? Best avoided.

None of this is difficult.

what a load of tripe. Sorry if i offended and sea creatures

This should've been stamped out weeks ago when problems first arose. A definitive statement from Webby categorically stating the FV group are in no way a racist group and any such behaviour will not be tolerated under any circumstances should've been issued when problems first arose. Any racist or prejudiced chanting today could've easily been drowned out by the drummer and a compliant FV.

Unfortunately it has now gotten serious where a deduction of points is possible. Time for some so-called leaders to 'step up' or leave!

Coxside_Green wrote:

This should've been stamped out weeks ago when problems first arose. A definitive statement from Webby categorically stating the FV group are in no way a racist group and any such behaviour will not be tolerated under any circumstances should've been issued when problems first arose. Any racist or prejudiced chanting today could've easily been drowned out by the drummer and a compliant FV.

Unfortunately it has now gotten serious where a deduction of points is possible. Time for some so-called leaders to 'step up' or leave!

Not one to defend Webb but he did make a statement condeming any racist chanting after the first incident.

As for a deduction of points, when has any team in england ever recieved a deduction of points because of something the crowd said. Come on get real

125+1 wrote:

Coxside_Green wrote:

This should've been stamped out weeks ago when problems first arose. A definitive statement from Webby categorically stating the FV group are in no way a racist group and any such behaviour will not be tolerated under any circumstances should've been issued when problems first arose. Any racist or prejudiced chanting today could've easily been drowned out by the drummer and a compliant FV.

Unfortunately it has now gotten serious where a deduction of points is possible. Time for some so-called leaders to 'step up' or leave!

Not one to defend Webb but he did condone any racist chanting after the first incident.

As for a deduction of points, when has any team in england ever recieved a deduction of points because of something the crowd said. Come on get real

He never condoned but he was fully aware of the problems. Like it or not, FV is his baby and it really is up to him to get it right.

Points reduction?, probably not but there has been precedence in the past where crowd disorder has led to points reduction. I accept it's unlikely but no need for any risk, especially at a time when the powers are hot on these situations.

Condemned or condoned?

I think to make clear that he condemned it is important.

Ok so this has been going on for ages has it? Just no one bothered to mention it until forza verde started up? Utter bollocks.

The reports of racist chanting started around the time forza verde started up, and the reports all started on pasoti, so don't try using the atd dirty tricks rubbish either.

The club president has been asked about it and said nothing other than got huffy and tried making out I was accusing him of being a racist, which was never the case. I just can't believe that no statement condemning it has been forthcoming from within the club. Like it or not its being laughed about on pasoti, and someone who reported racist chanting was roundly abused on pasoti for having the balls to speak out against it.

Maybe it is coincidence that it seems to have increased since forza verde started up, but I would argue that the group has attracted racists as the chanting seems to keep coming frontier same area. The group is aimed at younger people and they must hear it going on and they don't see anyone from the club condemning it. Totally wrong message being sent out. This should have been stamped out straight away but no one seems willing to make a stance.

And what sort of message is sent out when someone reports it and is abuse for doing it then the posts all deleted?

Whether you consider g*po chants ad racist or not is irrelevant, the law says they are. The club could get in deep shit for this but it's ok it's just banter? Im off to bed, its like banging your head against a brick wall. feck it deduct us 10 points and hear the squeals then.

So no one has been deducted points before means it won't happen? Ok so let's break the wage cap as no one has been punished for doing that. No that would be really bad and the league are watching us like hawks remember?