Meanwhile Fleetwood's signings just keep coming

Do you shop in Tesco or the fair trade shop supposedly know as the Co-op? Truth is once my money and my pocket have parted company then I don't dwell on where it goes from there as I see no point. If I didn't think I had gotten any value for money then perhaps I would stop giving it to that outlet but for me Argyle are probably the exception. I go back to the "I enjoy the matchday thing" as my excuse for that.

I also didn't say there weren't teams that have bought success but that some teams who thought they were buying it didn't achieve it when on paper they should have. You are entitled to your opinion regarding luck playing a part. I believe it does to some extent with some squads being the right blend rather than super stars. As I said it is just my opinion.

England's 1966 squad being a good example of a team playing better than the sum of their parts. It was all in the blend, in the moment.

But Argyle are different. To compare 'our team' to going shopping is to miss the point that they are more than a commodity - they are our team whoever actually owns them. Mr Brent is only temporary. That's what supporting a team is all about. He has said that he didn't 'get' football. If we don't perform well next season then he will soon learn what supporting a club is about when it goes wrong.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

I wasn't answering a point on future entertainment Greenskin it was a comment on who owned the money once it was passed over. Once you give something to somebody else it ceases to be your's. I don't remember ever having a say on what happens to that money once it is no longer mine irrespective of where I've spent it.
I still believe that luck does play a part in the construction of a squad. It's my opinion and I don't believe Argyle had any stars in that squad as such either. They gelled very well and once they began to win they got very used to doing it. I have seen sides with stars all over the pitch who have bombed. Sturrock knew his stuff at that level also which played it's part and was also part of the luck at that time. Basically it all came together. It's football so it is all about opinion most of the time.

I should imagine there re a lot of fans sleeping easy tonight that you're not in charge of their pension fund.
Same old, same old. Some fans accept their place as easily as the club always has. Some don't.

The reference to going shopping is about handing ones money over and what happens to it afterwards knecht. People seem to think it is still their money and it simply isn't so I'm not actually comparing Argyle to buying a bag of sugar. Of course they are our team and of course Brent will eventually be replaced whilst we still carry on. Realistically though we only own the club in our hearts and minds rather than in any legal term. I do agree with your 1966 reference though which is a prime example of the point I have tried to make. Right blend right time.

What is so difficult to understand Penz? You can choose to take your money out of a pension fund as it is still yours. Once you have bought something, i.e. a ticket of entry into a football ground then the money isn't. What the feck has me running a pension fund got to do with that? If you think the money you have spent going through the turnstyles at Home Park is still your's then best of luck in getting it back. If you think you can choose what it's spent on then best of luck with that one too. Let me know when you've won your argument with the Argyle owner.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

What is so difficult to understand Penz? You can choose to take your money out of a pension fund as it is still yours. Once you have bought something, i.e. a ticket of entry into a football ground then the money isn't. What the feck has me running a pension fund got to do with that? If you think the money you have spent going through the turnstyles at Home Park is still your's then best of luck in getting it back. If you think you can choose what it's spent on then best of luck with that one too. Let me know when you've won your argument with the Argyle owner.

How come you see no power in your own money, but recognise the power of other peoples' money ? Very strange .... again, your view has Argyle written all over it.
We're not all as easy a mark as you Sensible. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll enjoy the footie that's served up.

It's easy to trot out the "same old same old" and "accept mediocraty" lines at every argument as if it somehow proves a point. The only power I have over my own money is to keep it where it is in my pocket. I choose to go to Argyle because I want to not because somebody has brainwashed me into it. You may choose not to and that is absolutely 100% up to you. However, if you choose to go and part with your hard earned, in reality that is as far as you go with what you hand over. It is no longer your's and as I said, if you think you still own it then go get some back and I wish you luck with that one.

I resent the remark about being an "easy mark" just because I pay to go to watch Argyle. What is so difficult to understand that I, like a few thousand others, enjoy going to a match? I know what I'm going to get pretty much but for me, as has been explained umpteen times before, I like the matchday thing on a Saturday afternoon with friends and a beer and moan after. I happen to think that I'm spending my money on something I like doing. I still criticise things done at Argyle, players signed or not signed etc etc. including the standard of football I've watched. I still watch what the Owner does or doesn't do and have criticised some things I think are wrong. There are plenty of things other people do that I wouldn't waste my money on because I've no interest in it but I don't think they are brain dead just because I chose not to. How patronising would that be if I did. Choice is for the individual as is opinion.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

It's easy to trot out the "same old same old" and "accept mediocraty" lines at every argument as if it somehow proves a point. The only power I have over my own money is to keep it where it is in my pocket. I choose to go to Argyle because I want to not because somebody has brainwashed me into it. You may choose not to and that is absolutely 100% up to you. However, if you choose to go and part with your hard earned, in reality that is as far as you go with what you hand over. It is no longer your's and as I said, if you think you still own it then go get some back and I wish you luck with that one.

Seems to me you're missing the point about what actually supporting a football club means. Of course you spend your money at Argyle in the same way as you do at, say, Tesco. But you're buying something physical, something you can consume, because, presumably you need to eat or drink. If you don't like what you buy, or it doesn't meet with your approval then you go to Morrisons and try them. You have that choice.

With Argyle, we don't have that choice - we either go or we don't. The money that we hand over doesn't buy consumables, it buys, for want of a better phase, emotional involvement. That's a powerful hold on people that the club has, and, because of that, I think we, as supporters, should certainly be able to have a say on what happens at the club. Especially now, because I think that emotional hold is being exploited by the current owner.

Fecking hell, now I supposedly don't know what supporting a football club actually means. To put the record straight I know exactly what it means to me. That is ME not anyone else. Of course there is an emotional pull. Having done the above for a very long time it would be a bit foolish of me to pretend otherwise. The point about shopping was only to demonstrate that once you have bought something then the money is gone. Once it is gone then you don't have control over it anymore. The only choice you have is not to hand it over in the first place but if you chose to do so then that is it I'm afraid. We would all like a say on what the club does and spends it's income on but that isn't going to happen, not here or at pretty much any other club either. The only vote you have is on whether to pay for the next match or keep your brass. All Owners, unless they are a zillionaire and only care about their toy, exploit the emotional tie that supporters have. That's this one and every Owner there has ever been. It's hardly just been invented has it.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

The point about shopping was only to demonstrate that once you have bought something then the money is gone. Once it is gone then you don't have control over it anymore.

Right let's talk spending money Sensible
Why do you think some people buy elctricity or shop at mutual/green/ ethical shops/traders etc ? I'll tell you why ... becuse even the unfettered market offers the opportunity for a consumer to have control over where their money goes ..... the marketplace is full of such options and I take advantage of quite a few. If you don't want control over what your money goes into, that's up to you.

Are you beginning to get it yet ? You may not think it possible to influence the path of your money leaving your hand, but millions of people obviously do ... or are you saying those millions are being conned ?
It's called a conditional contract. People DO have control over that money once it's left their hands, as to not follow through with the promised consideration would break the contract.

I will say this one more time Penz. If you think you have control over your money once you have handed it over to the football club then ask for it back if it turns out you haven't. We were after all talking about Argyle not the World economy. Best of luck with that one and let me know how you get on. Incidentally, do you keep track of your pounds in all of these market places and do you know where it ends up? Do you know what they invest their profits in exactly? Do free range chickens have their own room on the farm with a butler......did Snow White and the 7 Dwarfs really exist....

Hence why I am a confirmed POTD fan, and have always been so, despite being penalised heavily every game. It gives me a control over my football spending that a season ticket never can.

As to your comments regarding the rest of the world economy, and ethical investments etc, your cynical slip is showing at last .... of course there are many people like you who refuse to accept there is adifferent way of doing business. That sad conclusion is for you, not for me. You may not trust in the good intentions and acts of some people and some businesses, I do... and that is where we differ. Rather ironic that, given you are more prepared to give the Citibank man Brent a go.
Nighty night ... don't let the Sigourney Weavers bite.

Penz wrote:

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

The point about shopping was only to demonstrate that once you have bought something then the money is gone. Once it is gone then you don't have control over it anymore.

Right let's talk spending money Sensible
Why do you think some people buy elctricity or shop at mutual/green/ ethical shops/traders etc ? I'll tell you why ... becuse even the unfettered market offers the opportunity for a consumer to have control over where their money goes ..... the marketplace is full of such options and I take advantage of quite a few. If you don't want control over what your money goes into, that's up to you.

Are you beginning to get it yet ? You may not think it possible to influence the path of your money leaving your hand, but millions of people obviously do ... or are you saying those millions are being conned ?
It's called a conditional contract. People DO have control over that money once it's left their hands, as to not follow through with the promised consideration would break the contract.

OK then don't go and pay to watch Argyle go and watch Torquay or Exeter or even Truro. Then you will have control over where your money goes up to the point you hand over your hard earned cash.

gasser9 wrote:

Penz wrote:

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

The point about shopping was only to demonstrate that once you have bought something then the money is gone. Once it is gone then you don't have control over it anymore.

Right let's talk spending money Sensible
Why do you think some people buy elctricity or shop at mutual/green/ ethical shops/traders etc ? I'll tell you why ... becuse even the unfettered market offers the opportunity for a consumer to have control over where their money goes ..... the marketplace is full of such options and I take advantage of quite a few. If you don't want control over what your money goes into, that's up to you.

Are you beginning to get it yet ? You may not think it possible to influence the path of your money leaving your hand, but millions of people obviously do ... or are you saying those millions are being conned ?
It's called a conditional contract. People DO have control over that money once it's left their hands, as to not follow through with the promised consideration would break the contract.

OK then don't go and pay to watch Argyle go and watch Torquay or Exeter or even Truro. Then you will have control over where your money goes up to the point you hand over your hard earned cash.

From the sublime to the ridiculous.

Youuuuuum naaaaaat praaaaaaaper faaaaaaaans !

Who's goin Tiverton ?

Tringreen wrote:

gasser9 wrote:

Penz wrote:

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

The point about shopping was only to demonstrate that once you have bought something then the money is gone. Once it is gone then you don't have control over it anymore.

Right let's talk spending money Sensible
Why do you think some people buy elctricity or shop at mutual/green/ ethical shops/traders etc ? I'll tell you why ... becuse even the unfettered market offers the opportunity for a consumer to have control over where their money goes ..... the marketplace is full of such options and I take advantage of quite a few. If you don't want control over what your money goes into, that's up to you.

Are you beginning to get it yet ? You may not think it possible to influence the path of your money leaving your hand, but millions of people obviously do ... or are you saying those millions are being conned ?
It's called a conditional contract. People DO have control over that money once it's left their hands, as to not follow through with the promised consideration would break the contract.

OK then don't go and pay to watch Argyle go and watch Torquay or Exeter or even Truro. Then you will have control over where your money goes up to the point you hand over your hard earned cash.

From the sublime to the ridiculous.

Youuuuuum naaaaaat praaaaaaaper faaaaaaaans !

Who's goin Tiverton ?

I was making the point (Obviously way over your head) that you can chose where you spend your money but once handed over you have no control as to how that money is spent or divided. This is the point that SG is making which seems to have passed you by but then again provided you can use your LOL avatar that's enough to keep you amused for the day.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

Fecking hell, now I supposedly don't know what supporting a football club actually means. To put the record straight I know exactly what it means to me. That is ME not anyone else. Of course there is an emotional pull. Having done the above for a very long time it would be a bit foolish of me to pretend otherwise. The point about shopping was only to demonstrate that once you have bought something then the money is gone. Once it is gone then you don't have control over it anymore. The only choice you have is not to hand it over in the first place but if you chose to do so then that is it I'm afraid. We would all like a say on what the club does and spends it's income on but that isn't going to happen, not here or at pretty much any other club either. The only vote you have is on whether to pay for the next match or keep your brass. All Owners, unless they are a zillionaire and only care about their toy, exploit the emotional tie that supporters have. That's this one and every Owner there has ever been. It's hardly just been invented has it.

But surely fans have influenced top leadership matters at various clubs in the past? OK,they may not have directly affected how their money was spent but they were certainly very influential in deciding who should spend it.Campaigns against Lowe at Southampton,Chase at Norwich,Swales at Manchester City,the old guard at Newcastle etc,were very effective in putting massive pressure on the incumbents to the extent that they gave way to someone else,for the better in most cases.There was no acceptance of substandard leadership at those clubs,which may well be one of the reasons why Argyle have not made the progress that they should have.The only rebellion that i can recall was a bit of barracking and a few banners against Dan when he took us into the fourth division for the first time,a shame because the decisions made at the top level of the club at various times in the past have certainly deserved far more dissent than they actually got.

gasser9 wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

gasser9 wrote:

Penz wrote:

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

The point about shopping was only to demonstrate that once you have bought something then the money is gone. Once it is gone then you don't have control over it anymore.

Right let's talk spending money Sensible
Why do you think some people buy elctricity or shop at mutual/green/ ethical shops/traders etc ? I'll tell you why ... becuse even the unfettered market offers the opportunity for a consumer to have control over where their money goes ..... the marketplace is full of such options and I take advantage of quite a few. If you don't want control over what your money goes into, that's up to you.

Are you beginning to get it yet ? You may not think it possible to influence the path of your money leaving your hand, but millions of people obviously do ... or are you saying those millions are being conned ?
It's called a conditional contract. People DO have control over that money once it's left their hands, as to not follow through with the promised consideration would break the contract.

OK then don't go and pay to watch Argyle go and watch Torquay or Exeter or even Truro. Then you will have control over where your money goes up to the point you hand over your hard earned cash.

From the sublime to the ridiculous.

Youuuuuum naaaaaat praaaaaaaper faaaaaaaans !

Who's goin Tiverton ?

I was making the point (Obviously way over your head) that you can chose where you spend your money but once handed over you have no control as to how that money is spent or divided. This is the point that SG is making which seems to have passed you by but then again provided you can use your LOL avatar that's enough to keep you amused for the day.

In the words of Basil Fawlty, 'Please try to understand before one of us dies'.

Tringreen wrote:

gasser9 wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

gasser9 wrote:

Penz wrote:

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

The point about shopping was only to demonstrate that once you have bought something then the money is gone. Once it is gone then you don't have control over it anymore.

Right let's talk spending money Sensible
Why do you think some people buy elctricity or shop at mutual/green/ ethical shops/traders etc ? I'll tell you why ... becuse even the unfettered market offers the opportunity for a consumer to have control over where their money goes ..... the marketplace is full of such options and I take advantage of quite a few. If you don't want control over what your money goes into, that's up to you.

Are you beginning to get it yet ? You may not think it possible to influence the path of your money leaving your hand, but millions of people obviously do ... or are you saying those millions are being conned ?
It's called a conditional contract. People DO have control over that money once it's left their hands, as to not follow through with the promised consideration would break the contract.

OK then don't go and pay to watch Argyle go and watch Torquay or Exeter or even Truro. Then you will have control over where your money goes up to the point you hand over your hard earned cash.

From the sublime to the ridiculous.

Youuuuuum naaaaaat praaaaaaaper faaaaaaaans !

Who's goin Tiverton ?

I was making the point (Obviously way over your head) that you can chose where you spend your money but once handed over you have no control as to how that money is spent or divided. This is the point that SG is making which seems to have passed you by but then again provided you can use your LOL avatar that's enough to keep you amused for the day.

In the words of Basil Fawlty, 'Please try to understand before one of us dies'.

Anything but discuss the point eh!

shonbo wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

gasser9 wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

gasser9 wrote:

Penz wrote:

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

The point about shopping was only to demonstrate that once you have bought something then the money is gone. Once it is gone then you don't have control over it anymore.

Right let's talk spending money Sensible
Why do you think some people buy elctricity or shop at mutual/green/ ethical shops/traders etc ? I'll tell you why ... becuse even the unfettered market offers the opportunity for a consumer to have control over where their money goes ..... the marketplace is full of such options and I take advantage of quite a few. If you don't want control over what your money goes into, that's up to you.

Are you beginning to get it yet ? You may not think it possible to influence the path of your money leaving your hand, but millions of people obviously do ... or are you saying those millions are being conned ?
It's called a conditional contract. People DO have control over that money once it's left their hands, as to not follow through with the promised consideration would break the contract.

OK then don't go and pay to watch Argyle go and watch Torquay or Exeter or even Truro. Then you will have control over where your money goes up to the point you hand over your hard earned cash.

From the sublime to the ridiculous.

Youuuuuum naaaaaat praaaaaaaper faaaaaaaans !

Who's goin Tiverton ?

I was making the point (Obviously way over your head) that you can chose where you spend your money but once handed over you have no control as to how that money is spent or divided. This is the point that SG is making which seems to have passed you by but then again provided you can use your LOL avatar that's enough to keep you amused for the day.

In the words of Basil Fawlty, 'Please try to understand before one of us dies'.

Anything but discuss the point eh!

It's been done to death............................... unless you're brain dead.

Tring - awarded the summa cum laude in doing things to death.

Tring - if its been done to death, why say anything

Knecht - educated wanker

knecht wrote:

Tring - awarded the summa cum laude in doing things to death.

Ha ha ! My work is done. Others are now doing it for me............... see, I did try to tell you

Greenjock wrote:

Both Torquay and Blackpool had decent managers though for a start.

Never say ''never''. If Argyle were start off with a wobble and that continues in to Christmas ?,then i think Carl ''i thought the Boys done well in the circumstances'' Fletcher may well be shown the door.

If that were to be the case ?,then James ''i am a football fan now'' Brent will have no choice but to bring in an experienced manager who could at least salvage what would be left of the season.

A call on [i]Carl ''i thought the Boys done well in the circumstances'' Fletcher and his tactics/team selection would be after the first 10 matches. That way we can see how it is,or is not,panning out.

Personally speaking,i think we will be ok this season. Not a Play-Off team (as some are suggesting),but rather an average League Two side just plodding along at a mediocre pace and avoiding the bottom 5 !.

Tringreen wrote:

gasser9 wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

gasser9 wrote:

Penz wrote:

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

The point about shopping was only to demonstrate that once you have bought something then the money is gone. Once it is gone then you don't have control over it anymore.

Right let's talk spending money Sensible
Why do you think some people buy elctricity or shop at mutual/green/ ethical shops/traders etc ? I'll tell you why ... becuse even the unfettered market offers the opportunity for a consumer to have control over where their money goes ..... the marketplace is full of such options and I take advantage of quite a few. If you don't want control over what your money goes into, that's up to you.

Are you beginning to get it yet ? You may not think it possible to influence the path of your money leaving your hand, but millions of people obviously do ... or are you saying those millions are being conned ?
It's called a conditional contract. People DO have control over that money once it's left their hands, as to not follow through with the promised consideration would break the contract.

OK then don't go and pay to watch Argyle go and watch Torquay or Exeter or even Truro. Then you will have control over where your money goes up to the point you hand over your hard earned cash.

From the sublime to the ridiculous.

Youuuuuum naaaaaat praaaaaaaper faaaaaaaans !

Who's goin Tiverton ?

I was making the point (Obviously way over your head) that you can chose where you spend your money but once handed over you have no control as to how that money is spent or divided. This is the point that SG is making which seems to have passed you by but then again provided you can use your LOL avatar that's enough to keep you amused for the day.

In the words of Basil Fawlty, 'Please try to understand before one of us dies'.

OK Tring just run it by me one more time would ya.

Penz you can be as patronising as you like with your I know better than you little boy attitude but I don't see anyone at Argyle taking your calls when decisions are being made. So much for payer power. You are another one straight out of the Tring mode who also thinks he is actually funny. I would call it sad personally but that is of course only an opinion. All I see if the picture is really him on his Avatar is an over weight overseas prat who thinks he is the oracle on something he hasn't seen for quite some time. A funny might be funny once but constant repeats are slightly tiresome. If you are no longer interested in a subject then why comment?

Once again somebody expresses that they enjoy going to matches and the puppies turn out in force. News folks, I like going to matches even if it is Argyle and they have been pants for a while now. It is my money I spend not anyone else's and it is my choice to make. If I fall out of love with it then I will stop and also stop commenting on it. I do find it quite amusing that big businessman Brent is bad yet other big business is supposedly good and ethical. I just wonder exactly who is deluded here. Brent isn't all good and has his motives no doubt and how stupid would it be to think otherwise. But to suggest these others are squeaky clean...........hmmmm of course they are.

Sensible ... your whole record on here is moan moan moan, not just about the club, but about fellow posters, anything really. I don't mind, but please have the decency to let other people to get their moan in.
And no, I don't think I'm funny on here, that's not my intent.

If you can't see the difference between, say, the Co-op or Tesco, then I don't think we have the basis for a debate, end of, really, and would be a waste of my time and effort .. you must find someone who's willing to debate on those terms of yours ... the pub is probably a good place to start. You're just giving it the same old 'all the world's corrupt' routine.. the Gadafi/Hussein defence.
Lighten up, people disagree, people have differing opinions, views, and ways of living...
Stick to your world and I'll stick to mine. Enjoy the start of the season ... I'll be giving the Oxford away game a go .... but more to do with social appointments than the need to support the boys in grey.