Brexit - Leave or Remain poll

Lord Biro wrote:

The 300K is net migration, as in net. That's in AND out.

No(did you say you were an accountant LB )

300k net means that 300k more people came into the country than left the country.......shorely. So if 600k came in and 300k left you'd be left with 300k net. By all means correct me if I'm wrong, and apologies if I'm not catching your drift.

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

I'll tell you more about what is happening here. The problem is getting worse and many more Germans are openly critisising the goverment and are saying enough is enough.

There are some state elections coming up soon so it will be interesting to see how AfD do.

The German goverment is being very generous. Someone who volunteers with the refugees told me that a single man gets €390 per month cash to spend. Everything else is paid for by the state. If they want something (a bike for example) they only have to ask. The man in question is from Afghanistan. He sends most of the money home. When he runs out of money, he can get €50 to spend in a supermarket!!! It's too generous and many are abusing the system. The volunteer, at the outset was very defensive over the refugees. Now, after working with them for a while, she is no longer that defensive.

The people from Afghanistan for example, can only stay for two years. None will get German (EU) citizenship, so no worries for the UK there (provided the UK keeps the border controls). The Syrians can only stay until it's safe to go back (many of them want and intend to do just that). The trouble is, a lot of those who are sent home, then come back again on the next boat and register under another name/nationality. One guy was found to have registered under 4 different names!!!!

130,000 "refugees" have "disappeared!".

A lot of muslims are registering as christians!!!!

The EU countries are talking about some sort of central database being set up but I guess that is a long way off.

A lot of people are very concerned (some even frightened) about the coming year. Germany just can't cope (no matter what they might say) and the goverment have no idea what to do. Politicians are doing u-turns left, right and centre, trying to reflect the views of their constituents (never trust a politician!).

In Frankfurt, refugees have been banned from some bars/discos as they cause trouble and steal phones, handbags etc.

It really is becoming a real mess here. The only way the same could happen in the UK would be if the UK government allows it!


On Saturday, I talked to someone from Berlin. They couldn't understand all the fuss over the Cologne incident as they said it happens every day in Berlin. The scale of it was the only suprise. Also, that type of behaviour is nothing new in Germany and has been a regular event long before any refugees arrived (mainly Turkish men).

In some respects the German people, and in particular Merkin are getting what they deserve. It was an ill thought out, come hither invitation. With an equal measure of greed and naivety they expected the cream of the asylum world to rock up, the young, healthy and highly qualified. Dentists, doctors, lawyers etc, etc, in the hope of further strengthening the German machine. It seems as though they got plenty of the young and healthy but mostly of the male, chauvinistic, disrespectful, and ungrateful variety with little or no regard for the laws and traditions of the host country, and it's anyone's guess how many are, or have terrorist sympathies.

Les Miserable wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

I'll tell you more about what is happening here. The problem is getting worse and many more Germans are openly critisising the goverment and are saying enough is enough.

There are some state elections coming up soon so it will be interesting to see how AfD do.

The German goverment is being very generous. Someone who volunteers with the refugees told me that a single man gets €390 per month cash to spend. Everything else is paid for by the state. If they want something (a bike for example) they only have to ask. The man in question is from Afghanistan. He sends most of the money home. When he runs out of money, he can get €50 to spend in a supermarket!!! It's too generous and many are abusing the system. The volunteer, at the outset was very defensive over the refugees. Now, after working with them for a while, she is no longer that defensive.

The people from Afghanistan for example, can only stay for two years. None will get German (EU) citizenship, so no worries for the UK there (provided the UK keeps the border controls). The Syrians can only stay until it's safe to go back (many of them want and intend to do just that). The trouble is, a lot of those who are sent home, then come back again on the next boat and register under another name/nationality. One guy was found to have registered under 4 different names!!!!

130,000 "refugees" have "disappeared!".

A lot of muslims are registering as christians!!!!

The EU countries are talking about some sort of central database being set up but I guess that is a long way off.

A lot of people are very concerned (some even frightened) about the coming year. Germany just can't cope (no matter what they might say) and the goverment have no idea what to do. Politicians are doing u-turns left, right and centre, trying to reflect the views of their constituents (never trust a politician!).

In Frankfurt, refugees have been banned from some bars/discos as they cause trouble and steal phones, handbags etc.

It really is becoming a real mess here. The only way the same could happen in the UK would be if the UK government allows it!


On Saturday, I talked to someone from Berlin. They couldn't understand all the fuss over the Cologne incident as they said it happens every day in Berlin. The scale of it was the only suprise. Also, that type of behaviour is nothing new in Germany and has been a regular event long before any refugees arrived (mainly Turkish men).

In some respects the German people, and in particular Merkin are getting what they deserve. It was an ill thought out, come hither invitation. With an equal measure of greed and naivety they expected the cream of the asylum world to rock up, the young, healthy and highly qualified. Dentists, doctors, lawyers etc, etc, in the hope of further strengthening the German machine. It seems as though they got plenty of the young and healthy but mostly of the male, chauvinistic, disrespectful, and ungrateful variety with little or no regard for the laws and traditions of the host country, and it's anyone's guess how many are, or have terrorist sympathies.

Sorry Les,couldn't stifle a rather irony induced giggle at that bit.

Who have the Germans ever invaded?

Amsterdamage wrote:

I'm struggling to understand whose side you're on?

I'm not on anybody's "side".

I believe that we will be better off staying in the EU. I don't trust what people like Farage and Johnson say. We know where we are in the EU and trying to change it from within is my preferred method.

I also have sympathy for the geniune refugees (families with children). I have no sympathy with the men who leave their families behind or
with those who are jumping on the bandwagon!

If I had my way, only families or lone parents with children would be allowed in. All others put on a boat and sent back to where they came from.

Les Miserable wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

The 300K is net migration, as in net. That's in AND out.

No(did you say you were an accountant LB )

300k net means that 300k more people came into the country than left the country.......shorely. So if 600k came in and 300k left you'd be left with 300k net. By all means correct me if I'm wrong, and apologies if I'm not catching your drift.

You're missing my point Les, because I am indeed saying it is a net figure.

So, this is one possible explanation. 600k new people apply for NI numbers. But, 300K migrants who retain their NI numbers, go home after working Result .....300K net migration.  I don't understand your confusion with my comment.

Lord Biro wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

The 300K is net migration, as in net. That's in AND out.

No(did you say you were an accountant LB )

300k net means that 300k more people came into the country than left the country.......shorely. So if 600k came in and 300k left you'd be left with 300k net. By all means correct me if I'm wrong, and apologies if I'm not catching your drift.

You're missing my point Les, because I am indeed saying it is a net figure.

So, this is one possible explanation. 600k new people apply for NI numbers. But, 300K migrants who retain their NI numbers, go home after working Result .....300K net migration.  I don't understand your confusion with my comment.

It's a possible explanation LB but a highly unlikely one, I'd be amazed if 50% of immigrants returned from whence they came. I'd wager that 90% of those leaving are expats, many of whom will be in Frank's favoured bracket, selfish, bunced up baby boomers(aka, oxygen thieves )

My oxygen thieving friends were in the Canaries and Peru last month. Next month they are off to Marakesh and Southern Spain. No shame.
Lots of immigrant workers go back after making a bit. In the end, in my mind, migration is only a numbers game ie.... how quickly the population is growing. Of course, some people are worried what is the racial/national make up of that population, not just the numbers. And my guess is this 600K inference is intended to scratch that itch.

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

So, basically Tis, you don't want anyone at all to come into the UK (not even returning expats) irrespective of them being from the EU or not.

Or have I completely misunderstood you?

Unsurprisingly, you being a bit of a moron, have in fact completely misunderstood me, perhaps if you could find a passing ten year old to read my posts then explain the very simple English contained therein to you. Maybe if you just read what was posted and didn't try to be fooking clever that might help as well.

Amsterdamage wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

So, basically Tis, you don't want anyone at all to come into the UK (not even returning expats) irrespective of them being from the EU or not.

Or have I completely misunderstood you?

Like a lot of people you understand what you want to understand. Who has mentioned banning ex pats from returning to the uk? It was you, no one else. What Mis and Tis were talking about was the official figures say that there was net migration of 320k but HMRC issued 600k NI numbers implying that the gov. are fiddling the figures. If you are looking for a motive it is to maintain the low wage economy.
The exodus from the sandpit, eastern Europe and Africa is going to be of biblical proportions, how many have you got living with you?

I'm not convinced that the variance necessarily implies anything in particular, what bothers me is that the details are embargoed until after the referendum along with a whole host of other information requests, as with the Sweaty vote, you can be certain nothing which reflects badly on the EU or their chums in our government will be hitting the meeja in the next 4 months, all we shall get is crap like Pig Porking Dave's dodgy dossier which is full of utter bullsh1t but most people will not have seen Matthew Hand on C0ck's pathetically ill informed defence of it on the Daily Politics, I'm not a big Andrew Neil fan but he certainly ripped ol' C0cky a new'un.

So BMW have told their employees how it is and how they should vote. And to think it's not been long since these very sort of employers were moaning that trade unions held too much sway over their members.
Obviously not much has changed in the representation arena since the English civil war, where workers, totally dependent on their particular local landowner, were told which side to fight for and togged up accordingly.
Don't ya just love the game.

Democracy doesn't work in the EU......if you think that sovereignty is important for a nation.....then what the hell our we doing in this federal concoction that is becoming greater Germany.

Democracy was my point Zyph. There was no democracy in 1665 in this country, was there.
To say it doesn't exist in the EU but does in the UK, is frankly preposterous.
The EU may well have much of it's power centre in Germany, and that doesn't please me at all, given the way I fear they are going. But then, I also dislike the city state London dominating lives in this country. Westminster doesn't represent me either.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

So, basically Tis, you don't want anyone at all to come into the UK (not even returning expats) irrespective of them being from the EU or not.

Or have I completely misunderstood you?

Unsurprisingly, you being a bit of a moron, have in fact completely misunderstood me, perhaps if you could find a passing ten year old to read my posts then explain the very simple English contained therein to you. Maybe if you just read what was posted and didn't try to be fooking clever that might help as well.

Well, you do write like you are in the playground with your oh so hilarious insults and side spliiting descriptive nouns.

So maybe a 10 year old will better understand you.

As I've said I intend to vote leave due to my growing into that grumpy, cynical old fecker. I am, however, open to persuasion to alter my view but in all the discussions I've had with friends and family I have to return to one point. The more vested interests try to frighten me the more I'll probably dig my heels in. Nicola Sturgeon actually got one thing right, campaigns of fear will lose votes for whoever tries to rely on them.

Charlie Wood wrote:

As I've said I intend to vote leave due to my growing into that grumpy, cynical old fecker. I am, however, open to persuasion to alter my view but in all the discussions I've had with friends and family I have to return to one point. The more vested interests try to frighten me the more I'll probably dig my heels in. Nicola Sturgeon actually got one thing right, campaigns of fear will lose votes for whoever tries to rely on them.

Et voila!

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We are being bombarded by this kind of thing, particularly from the remain campaign and it's supporters and it's going to get more and more extreme the closer we get to polling day. As Charlie says, they need to be very careful that they don't push people in the opposite direction, nobody likes having their intelligence insulted.

I agree Charlie.

Politicians are a busted flush. They know nothing except how to further their own careers.

It Parliament is theatre for ugly people then it's also theatre for flawed personalities.

I agree with Charlie this constant negative politics will make people vote to leave the eu. I am undecided but I'm starting to learn towards the leave camp.

It's starting to annoy me now, we as a nation pay 11bn a year to trade with Europe, that money is raised by tax and vat ie by me and you (with a tiny bit of corporation tax if the big companies feel like paying it) the big corporations get their mates the government (who the big corporations feed with money to feed us with spin on their behalf) to scare us into not upsetting the AppleCare which on the whole treats us like cash cows and pays us low wages.

Amsterdamage wrote:

It's starting to annoy me now, we as a nation pay 11bn a year to trade with Europe, that money is raised by tax and vat ie by me and you (with a tiny bit of corporation tax if the big companies feel like paying it) the big corporations get their mates the government (who the big corporations feed with money to feed us with spin on their behalf) to scare us into not upsetting the AppleCare which on the whole treats us like cash cows and pays us low wages.

I agree but it's not going to change just because we leave the EU.

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Amsterdamage wrote:

It's starting to annoy me now, we as a nation pay 11bn a year to trade with Europe, that money is raised by tax and vat ie by me and you (with a tiny bit of corporation tax if the big companies feel like paying it) the big corporations get their mates the government (who the big corporations feed with money to feed us with spin on their behalf) to scare us into not upsetting the AppleCare which on the whole treats us like cash cows and pays us low wages.

I agree but it's not going to change just because we leave the EU.

No it's not but well have more chance of changing a government that we can vote out. When do we ever get to choose who makes the rules in Europe?
Anyway if I had my way everybody would march on London burn a few cars and shops that's what makes governments listen, did Brixton and Tower Hamlets the world of good.

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Even the eu leader is banging on about it now Franny.

Lord Biro wrote:

So BMW have told their employees how it is and how they should vote. And to think it's not been long since these very sort of employers were moaning that trade unions held too much sway over their members.
Obviously not much has changed in the representation arena since the English civil war, where workers, totally dependent on their particular local landowner, were told which side to fight for and togged up accordingly.
Don't ya just love the game.

Unbelievable. Vote In or, sacked in the morning, you're getting sacked in the morning.

And Lord Rose, the suit fronting up Remain, admits on live tv that Brexit would push up wages in the UK and that would be a bad thing? OMG!

Just watching some pro EU knobber called Finkel summat try to argue that Brexit would mean all the illegals in Calais coming straight here, Neil tore him a new'un, none of these Remainers seem to have a clue about actual process or policy. Shame only sad fecks like me watch the Daily Politics.

And now the French leader, clearly in cahoots with Camerin, anounces to the World in a joint press conference with our Dave that there will be dire consequences for the UK if we vote to leave the EU. Visions of Arma geddon anyone ?