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 Brexit - Leave or Remain poll

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Brexit
Leave
71%
 71% [ 36 ]
Remain
29%
 29% [ 15 ]
Total Votes : 51
 

AuthorMessage
Moist_Von_Lipwig

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:43 am

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Whatever the outcome of the vote the aftermath is going to be interesting.

If we choose Remain then that's it for UKIP and Farage. There'll be no possibility for their ultimate goal to be achieved. They/he are a spent force.

If we vote Leave then the Cameron/Osborne axis is finished within the Tory Party and it'll have to be a Leaver, probably Boris but maybe Gove, that leads the party.

Where that would leave the foot soldiers of Remain is questionable as is what happens to their equivalent on the other side should remain win... The Tory Party could easily split because the Leavers won't ever let go or accept defeat; they'd have to merge with UKIP but to what end? English Nationalism? Might they try to establish a right wing ENP along the lines of the SNP/Plaid Cymru?

Whatever happens it is going to be messy.

It's not about the politics/politicians.... It's about US.. The people... Who WE really are!

Edited to add...

Whatever the result, what will the winners (in reality) be gloating about?

I've made Dave, Boris, Nige more powerful! I am on the winning side!

And when I wake up next Friday (or maybe Saturday), who will be better off? Me or Nige or Boris or Dave and their cronies.

Shit or bust?

Vote what you think is best for YOU!
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:56 am

I just hope there's a decisive result.

I'm hoping for 55:45 Remain (or better) which would be in line with the Scottish result but the bigger the win either way the better; the very worst outcome would be 50%+1:50% -1 whoever wins.
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:08 am

The SNP/Plaid Cymru are right wing are they...
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Hugh Midde

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:23 am

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:
Hugh Midde wrote:
Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:
Rollo Tomasi wrote:
I'll have to say it again by the looks of it.

THE GREEK DEBT IS INCREASING BY £493 (€629) PER SECOND.

Greece has to default but Germany will not allow it as other countries will follow suit. Therefore we, the U.K, will be forced to do pay more.

Let's hope Sir Philip Green doesn't come calling for you to donate a £1000 towards the BHS Pension Fund.

You seem dopey enough to pay it.

Read my links earlier. The UK doesn't have to pay anything! Please do some research!

Cameron stated that a deal struck in 2010 should protect the UK from future eurozone bailouts. However, EU officials said the the European Commission had the legal authority to use it for short term loans that could give Greece as part of the wider 86bn-euro (£61bn) rescue package.

As I understand it, the UK were then forced to hand over £600m.

600m.... and....????????

£600m for starters, and keep it coming coz we're legally entitled to ask for more.
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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:30 am

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:
Vote what you think is best for YOU!

I could not disagree more.

Surely country before self. In which case I vote leave.

I can't recall a more important vote since the 1979 election.

That was to decide the way forward for a generation.

Dislikable as she was, I voted for Thatcher. Her time had come after years of drift.

Mind you I also foolishly voted for Blair.

This has similar undertones, a slow drift backwards or a fresh beginning.

Vote Leave, all day long.
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Moist_Von_Lipwig

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:00 am

Rollo Tomasi wrote:
Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:
Vote what you think is best for YOU!

I could not disagree more.

Surely country before self. In which case I vote leave.

I can't recall a more important vote since the 1979 election.

That was to decide the way forward for a generation.

Dislikable as she was, I voted for Thatcher. Her time had come after years of drift.

Mind you I also foolishly voted for Blair.

This has similar undertones, a slow drift backwards or a fresh beginning.

Vote Leave, all day long.

My apologies, I should have made my point clearer.

By "YOU" I meant think about all aspects of your life and what type of country/society you want to ba a part of.

What will happen if we vote leave?

Recession?
A green light for the nutters to persecute any immigrants?
The break up of The UK?
A Farage/Johnson goverment?

Little England will be all alone in the big wide world and will lose her influence.

What will happen if we vote remain?

Continued economic growth?
A clear message that we as a nation are not xenophobes and racists?
The UK stays intact?
A Cameron goverment (ok, a negative but not as negative as the alternative)?

The UK still plays an important role in the world.

YOU choose!

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Moist_Von_Lipwig

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:10 am

Copied from Facebook. I'm sure the author won't mind.....

Tim Morgan
June 13 at 9:10pm · London, United Kingdom ·
"Brexit: AA Gill argues for ‘In’

We all know what “getting our country back” means. It’s snorting a line of that most pernicious and debilitating Little English drug, nostalgia

It was the woman on Question Time that really did it for me. She was so familiar. There is someone like her in every queue, every coffee shop, outside every school in every parish council in the country. Middle-aged, middle-class, middle-brow, over-made-up, with her National Health face and weatherproof English expression of hurt righteousness, she’s Britannia’s mother-in-law. The camera closed in on her and she shouted: “All I want is my country back. Give me my country back.”

It was a heartfelt cry of real distress and the rest of the audience erupted in sympathetic applause, but I thought: “Back from what? Back from where?”

Wanting the country back is the constant mantra of all the outies. Farage slurs it, Gove insinuates it. Of course I know what they mean. We all know what they mean. They mean back from Johnny Foreigner, back from the brink, back from the future, back-to-back, back to bosky hedges and dry stone walls and country lanes and church bells and warm beer and skittles and football rattles and cheery banter and clogs on cobbles. Back to vicars-and-tarts parties and Carry On fart jokes, back to Elgar and fudge and proper weather and herbaceous borders and cars called Morris. Back to victoria sponge and 22 yards to a wicket and 15 hands to a horse and 3ft to a yard and four fingers in a Kit Kat, back to gooseberries not avocados, back to deference and respect, to make do and mend and smiling bravely and biting your lip and suffering in silence and patronising foreigners with pity.

We all know what “getting our country back” means. It’s snorting a line of the most pernicious and debilitating Little English drug, nostalgia. The warm, crumbly, honey-coloured, collective “yesterday” with its fond belief that everything was better back then, that Britain (England, really) is a worse place now than it was at some foggy point in the past where we achieved peak Blighty. It’s the knowledge that the best of us have been and gone, that nothing we can build will be as lovely as a National Trust Georgian country house, no art will be as good as a Turner, no poem as wonderful as If, no writer a touch on Shakespeare or Dickens, nothing will grow as lovely as a cottage garden, no hero greater than Nelson, no politician better than Churchill, no view more throat-catching than the White Cliffs and that we will never manufacture anything as great as a Rolls-Royce or Flying Scotsman again.

The dream of Brexit isn’t that we might be able to make a brighter, new, energetic tomorrow, it’s a desire to shuffle back to a regret-curdled inward-looking yesterday. In the Brexit fantasy, the best we can hope for is to kick out all the work-all-hours foreigners and become caretakers to our own past in this self-congratulatory island of moaning and pomposity.

And if you think that’s an exaggeration of the Brexit position, then just listen to the language they use: “We are a nation of inventors and entrepreneurs, we want to put the great back in Britain, the great engineers, the great manufacturers.” This is all the expression of a sentimental nostalgia. In the Brexiteer’s mind’s eye is the old Pathé newsreel of Donald Campbell, of John Logie Baird with his television, Barnes Wallis and his bouncing bomb, and Robert Baden-Powell inventing boy scouts in his shed.

All we need, their argument goes, is to be free of the humourless Germans and spoilsport French and all their collective liberalism and reality. There is a concomitant hope that if we manage to back out of Europe, then we’ll get back to the bowler-hatted 1950s and the Commonwealth will hold pageants, fireworks displays and beg to be back in the Queen Empress’s good books again. Then New Zealand will sacrifice a thousand lambs, Ghana will ask if it can go back to being called the Gold Coast and Britain will resume hand-making Land Rovers and top hats and Sheffield plate teapots.

There is a reason that most of the people who want to leave the EU are old while those who want to remain are young: it’s because the young aren’t infected with Bisto nostalgia. They don’t recognise half the stuff I’ve mentioned here. They’ve grown up in the EU and at worst it’s been neutral for them.

The under-thirties want to be part of things, not aloof from them. They’re about being joined-up and counted. I imagine a phrase most outies identify with is “women’s liberation has gone too far”. Everything has gone too far for them, from political correctness — well, that’s gone mad, hasn’t it? — to health and safety and gender-neutral lavatories. Those oldies, they don’t know if they’re coming or going, what with those newfangled mobile phones and kids on Tinder and Grindr. What happened to meeting Miss Joan Hunter Dunn at the tennis club? And don’t get them started on electric hand dryers, or something unrecognised in the bagging area, or Indian call centres , or the impertinent computer asking for a password that has both capitals and little letters and numbers and more than eight digits.

Brexit is the fond belief that Britain is worse now than at some point in the foggy past where we achieved peak Blighty

We listen to the Brexit lot talk about the trade deals they’re going to make with Europe after we leave, and the blithe insouciance that what they’re offering instead of EU membership is a divorce where you can still have sex with your ex. They reckon they can get out of the marriage, keep the house, not pay alimony, take the kids out of school, stop the in-laws going to the doctor, get strict with the visiting rights, but, you know, still get a shag at the weekend and, obviously, see other people on the side.

Really, that’s their best offer? That’s the plan? To swagger into Brussels with Union Jack pants on and say: “ ’Ello luv, you’re looking nice today. Would you like some?”

When the rest of us ask how that’s really going to work, leavers reply, with Terry-Thomas smirks, that “they’re going to still really fancy us, honest, they’re gagging for us. Possibly not Merkel, but the bosses of Mercedes and those French vintners and cheesemakers, they can’t get enough of old John Bull. Of course they’re going to want to go on making the free market with two backs after we’ve got the decree nisi. Makes sense, doesn’t it?”

Have no doubt, this is a divorce. It’s not just business, it’s not going to be all reason and goodwill. Like all divorces, leaving Europe would be ugly and mean and hurtful, and it would lead to a great deal of poisonous xenophobia and racism, all the niggling personal prejudice that dumped, betrayed and thwarted people are prey to. And the racism and prejudice are, of course, weak points for us. The tortuous renegotiation with lawyers and courts will be bitter and vengeful, because divorces always are and, just in passing, this sovereignty thing we’re supposed to want back so badly, like Frodo’s ring, has nothing to do with you or me. We won’t notice it coming back, because we didn’t notice not having it in the first place.

Nine out of 10 economists say ‘remain in the EU’

You won’t wake up on June 24 and think: “Oh my word, my arthritis has gone! My teeth are suddenly whiter! Magically, I seem to know how to make a soufflé and I’m buff with the power of sovereignty.” This is something only politicians care about; it makes not a jot of difference to you or me if the Supreme Court is a bunch of strangely out-of-touch old gits in wigs in Westminster or a load of strangely out-of-touch old gits without wigs in Luxembourg. What matters is that we have as many judges as possible on the side of personal freedom.

Personally, I see nothing about our legislators in the UK that makes me feel I can confidently give them more power. The more checks and balances politicians have, the better for the rest of us. You can’t have too many wise heads and different opinions. If you’re really worried about red tape, by the way, it’s not just a European problem. We’re perfectly capable of coming up with our own rules and regulations and we have no shortage of jobsworths. Red tape may be annoying, but it is also there to protect your and my family from being lied to, poisoned and cheated.

The first “X” I ever put on a voting slip was to say yes to the EU. The first referendum was when I was 20 years old. This one will be in the week of my 62nd birthday. For nearly all my adult life, there hasn’t been a day when I haven’t been pleased and proud to be part of this great collective. If you ask me for my nationality, the truth is I feel more European than anything else. I am part of this culture, this European civilisation. I can walk into any gallery on our continent and completely understand the images and the stories on the walls. These people are my people and they have been for thousands of years. I can read books on subjects from Ancient Greece to Dark Ages Scandinavia, from Renaissance Italy to 19th-century France, and I don’t need the context or the landscape explained to me. The music of Europe, from its scales and its instruments to its rhythms and religion, is my music. The Renaissance, the rococo, the Romantics, the impressionists, gothic, baroque, neoclassicism, realism, expressionism, futurism, fauvism, cubism, dada, surrealism, postmodernism and kitsch were all European movements and none of them belongs to a single nation.

There is a reason why the Chinese are making fake Italian handbags and the Italians aren’t making fake Chinese ones. This European culture, without question or argument, is the greatest, most inventive, subtle, profound, beautiful and powerful genius that was ever contrived anywhere by anyone and it belongs to us. Just look at my day job — food. The change in food culture and pleasure has been enormous since we joined the EU, and that’s no coincidence. What we eat, the ingredients, the recipes, may come from around the world, but it is the collective to and fro of European interests, expertise and imagination that has made it all so very appetising and exciting.

The restaurant was a European invention, naturally. The first one in Paris was called The London Bridge.

Culture works and grows through the constant warp and weft of creators, producers, consumers, intellectuals and instinctive lovers. You can’t dictate or legislate for it, you can just make a place that encourages it and you can truncate it. You can make it harder and more grudging, you can put up barriers and you can build walls, but why on earth would you? This collective culture, this golden civilisation grown on this continent over thousands of years, has made everything we have and everything we are, why would you not want to be part of it?

I understand that if we leave we don’t have to hand back our library ticket for European civilisation, but why would we even think about it? In fact, the only ones who would are those old, philistine scared gits. Look at them, too frightened to join in."
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:17 am

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:
Copied from Facebook. I'm sure the author won't mind.....

Tim Morgan
June 13 at 9:10pm · London, United Kingdom ·
"Brexit: AA Gill argues for ‘In’

We all know what “getting our country back” means. It’s snorting a line of that most pernicious and debilitating Little English drug, nostalgia

It was the woman on Question Time that really did it for me. She was so familiar. There is someone like her in every queue, every coffee shop, outside every school in every parish council in the country. Middle-aged, middle-class, middle-brow, over-made-up, with her National Health face and weatherproof English expression of hurt righteousness, she’s Britannia’s mother-in-law. The camera closed in on her and she shouted: “All I want is my country back. Give me my country back.”

It was a heartfelt cry of real distress and the rest of the audience erupted in sympathetic applause, but I thought: “Back from what? Back from where?”

Wanting the country back is the constant mantra of all the outies. Farage slurs it, Gove insinuates it. Of course I know what they mean. We all know what they mean. They mean back from Johnny Foreigner, back from the brink, back from the future, back-to-back, back to bosky hedges and dry stone walls and country lanes and church bells and warm beer and skittles and football rattles and cheery banter and clogs on cobbles. Back to vicars-and-tarts parties and Carry On fart jokes, back to Elgar and fudge and proper weather and herbaceous borders and cars called Morris. Back to victoria sponge and 22 yards to a wicket and 15 hands to a horse and 3ft to a yard and four fingers in a Kit Kat, back to gooseberries not avocados, back to deference and respect, to make do and mend and smiling bravely and biting your lip and suffering in silence and patronising foreigners with pity.

We all know what “getting our country back” means. It’s snorting a line of the most pernicious and debilitating Little English drug, nostalgia. The warm, crumbly, honey-coloured, collective “yesterday” with its fond belief that everything was better back then, that Britain (England, really) is a worse place now than it was at some foggy point in the past where we achieved peak Blighty. It’s the knowledge that the best of us have been and gone, that nothing we can build will be as lovely as a National Trust Georgian country house, no art will be as good as a Turner, no poem as wonderful as If, no writer a touch on Shakespeare or Dickens, nothing will grow as lovely as a cottage garden, no hero greater than Nelson, no politician better than Churchill, no view more throat-catching than the White Cliffs and that we will never manufacture anything as great as a Rolls-Royce or Flying Scotsman again.

The dream of Brexit isn’t that we might be able to make a brighter, new, energetic tomorrow, it’s a desire to shuffle back to a regret-curdled inward-looking yesterday. In the Brexit fantasy, the best we can hope for is to kick out all the work-all-hours foreigners and become caretakers to our own past in this self-congratulatory island of moaning and pomposity.

And if you think that’s an exaggeration of the Brexit position, then just listen to the language they use: “We are a nation of inventors and entrepreneurs, we want to put the great back in Britain, the great engineers, the great manufacturers.” This is all the expression of a sentimental nostalgia. In the Brexiteer’s mind’s eye is the old Pathé newsreel of Donald Campbell, of John Logie Baird with his television, Barnes Wallis and his bouncing bomb, and Robert Baden-Powell inventing boy scouts in his shed.

All we need, their argument goes, is to be free of the humourless Germans and spoilsport French and all their collective liberalism and reality. There is a concomitant hope that if we manage to back out of Europe, then we’ll get back to the bowler-hatted 1950s and the Commonwealth will hold pageants, fireworks displays and beg to be back in the Queen Empress’s good books again. Then New Zealand will sacrifice a thousand lambs, Ghana will ask if it can go back to being called the Gold Coast and Britain will resume hand-making Land Rovers and top hats and Sheffield plate teapots.

There is a reason that most of the people who want to leave the EU are old while those who want to remain are young: it’s because the young aren’t infected with Bisto nostalgia. They don’t recognise half the stuff I’ve mentioned here. They’ve grown up in the EU and at worst it’s been neutral for them.

The under-thirties want to be part of things, not aloof from them. They’re about being joined-up and counted. I imagine a phrase most outies identify with is “women’s liberation has gone too far”. Everything has gone too far for them, from political correctness — well, that’s gone mad, hasn’t it? — to health and safety and gender-neutral lavatories. Those oldies, they don’t know if they’re coming or going, what with those newfangled mobile phones and kids on Tinder and Grindr. What happened to meeting Miss Joan Hunter Dunn at the tennis club? And don’t get them started on electric hand dryers, or something unrecognised in the bagging area, or Indian call centres , or the impertinent computer asking for a password that has both capitals and little letters and numbers and more than eight digits.

Brexit is the fond belief that Britain is worse now than at some point in the foggy past where we achieved peak Blighty

We listen to the Brexit lot talk about the trade deals they’re going to make with Europe after we leave, and the blithe insouciance that what they’re offering instead of EU membership is a divorce where you can still have sex with your ex. They reckon they can get out of the marriage, keep the house, not pay alimony, take the kids out of school, stop the in-laws going to the doctor, get strict with the visiting rights, but, you know, still get a shag at the weekend and, obviously, see other people on the side.

Really, that’s their best offer? That’s the plan? To swagger into Brussels with Union Jack pants on and say: “ ’Ello luv, you’re looking nice today. Would you like some?”

When the rest of us ask how that’s really going to work, leavers reply, with Terry-Thomas smirks, that “they’re going to still really fancy us, honest, they’re gagging for us. Possibly not Merkel, but the bosses of Mercedes and those French vintners and cheesemakers, they can’t get enough of old John Bull. Of course they’re going to want to go on making the free market with two backs after we’ve got the decree nisi. Makes sense, doesn’t it?”

Have no doubt, this is a divorce. It’s not just business, it’s not going to be all reason and goodwill. Like all divorces, leaving Europe would be ugly and mean and hurtful, and it would lead to a great deal of poisonous xenophobia and racism, all the niggling personal prejudice that dumped, betrayed and thwarted people are prey to. And the racism and prejudice are, of course, weak points for us. The tortuous renegotiation with lawyers and courts will be bitter and vengeful, because divorces always are and, just in passing, this sovereignty thing we’re supposed to want back so badly, like Frodo’s ring, has nothing to do with you or me. We won’t notice it coming back, because we didn’t notice not having it in the first place.

Nine out of 10 economists say ‘remain in the EU’

You won’t wake up on June 24 and think: “Oh my word, my arthritis has gone! My teeth are suddenly whiter! Magically, I seem to know how to make a soufflé and I’m buff with the power of sovereignty.” This is something only politicians care about; it makes not a jot of difference to you or me if the Supreme Court is a bunch of strangely out-of-touch old gits in wigs in Westminster or a load of strangely out-of-touch old gits without wigs in Luxembourg. What matters is that we have as many judges as possible on the side of personal freedom.

Personally, I see nothing about our legislators in the UK that makes me feel I can confidently give them more power. The more checks and balances politicians have, the better for the rest of us. You can’t have too many wise heads and different opinions. If you’re really worried about red tape, by the way, it’s not just a European problem. We’re perfectly capable of coming up with our own rules and regulations and we have no shortage of jobsworths. Red tape may be annoying, but it is also there to protect your and my family from being lied to, poisoned and cheated.

The first “X” I ever put on a voting slip was to say yes to the EU. The first referendum was when I was 20 years old. This one will be in the week of my 62nd birthday. For nearly all my adult life, there hasn’t been a day when I haven’t been pleased and proud to be part of this great collective. If you ask me for my nationality, the truth is I feel more European than anything else. I am part of this culture, this European civilisation. I can walk into any gallery on our continent and completely understand the images and the stories on the walls. These people are my people and they have been for thousands of years. I can read books on subjects from Ancient Greece to Dark Ages Scandinavia, from Renaissance Italy to 19th-century France, and I don’t need the context or the landscape explained to me. The music of Europe, from its scales and its instruments to its rhythms and religion, is my music. The Renaissance, the rococo, the Romantics, the impressionists, gothic, baroque, neoclassicism, realism, expressionism, futurism, fauvism, cubism, dada, surrealism, postmodernism and kitsch were all European movements and none of them belongs to a single nation.

There is a reason why the Chinese are making fake Italian handbags and the Italians aren’t making fake Chinese ones. This European culture, without question or argument, is the greatest, most inventive, subtle, profound, beautiful and powerful genius that was ever contrived anywhere by anyone and it belongs to us. Just look at my day job — food. The change in food culture and pleasure has been enormous since we joined the EU, and that’s no coincidence. What we eat, the ingredients, the recipes, may come from around the world, but it is the collective to and fro of European interests, expertise and imagination that has made it all so very appetising and exciting.

The restaurant was a European invention, naturally. The first one in Paris was called The London Bridge.

Culture works and grows through the constant warp and weft of creators, producers, consumers, intellectuals and instinctive lovers. You can’t dictate or legislate for it, you can just make a place that encourages it and you can truncate it. You can make it harder and more grudging, you can put up barriers and you can build walls, but why on earth would you? This collective culture, this golden civilisation grown on this continent over thousands of years, has made everything we have and everything we are, why would you not want to be part of it?

I understand that if we leave we don’t have to hand back our library ticket for European civilisation, but why would we even think about it? In fact, the only ones who would are those old, philistine scared gits. Look at them, too frightened to join in."


Lip, have you watched the Brexit Movie posted by Mage yet?
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Moist_Von_Lipwig

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:31 am

Les Miserable wrote:



Lip, have you watched the Brexit Movie posted by Mage yet?

I'll put it on now......
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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:43 am

Good read that, and very, very true.

This campaign has been marked by one line statements that mean absolutely nothing. Let's take back control (control of what?) Your country (we already have control of our country).

The leave campaign are feeding the isolationist middle England xenophobics manna from heaven, so much so that they will vote leave without really understanding why - and they're shouting loudest so the message appears in the media more so than the remainers.

I used to work for the European Commission. There is absolutely no desire (or need) to create a Federal State of Europe. The UK (and Ireland) are considered to be two of the most important contributors to EU policy and delivery. If there is a problem with a Member State in any area of work the UK is frequently asked to help, particularly with the Eastern European countries (all of whom, incidentally, are pleased to work with us - as opposed to some of the other EU members). The EU wants us to stay. It is a stronger union with us in it, and we are stronger as a member.

Contrary to the scare stories, Turkey are light years away from being admitted, so 80 million Turks won't be appearing near you any time soon.

I really cannot understand why people think we will be better off outside the EU. It makes no sense, economically, socially or politically.

In an attempt to appease his rabid euro sceptic back benchers Cameron has gambled not only his future but the future of this country. If we vote he's gone. If we stay he will no doubt proclaim it as a victory, but the truth is he has put his put his position over that of the UK - totally unforgiveable.

I shall be voting to remain, and I would urge everyone to do the same - it really is the sensible way forward.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:45 am

Douglas Carswell on Breaking Point poster: "That poster wasn't Vote Leave. I don't think it was even UKIP."
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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:55 am

I read your favourite rag in the coffee shop the other day Franny (the one telling you how to think about the immigrant queue poster) no wonder you are so obsessed with immigration as it seems the main tactic in the Gaurdian remain campaign, immigration, immigration, immigration. Some of the most heavily bisaed stuff I've read anywhere. Trade, reply immigration, economy, reply immigration ect, ect. It's not all about immigration.

PP and Franny need to watch the movie,
www.brexitthemovie.com

I'm taking no further part in this debate until you do.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:57 am

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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:00 pm

Why do I need to watch a propaganda film?
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mouldyoldgoat
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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:04 pm

Here's a good read.

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There is also a clip on you tube of the Late Tony Benn and his attitude to the EU.


Still voting leave.

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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:14 pm

Amsterdamage wrote:
I read your favourite rag in the coffee shop the other day Franny (the one telling you how to think about the immigrant queue poster) no wonder you are so obsessed with immigration as it seems the main tactic in the Gaurdian remain campaign, immigration, immigration, immigration. Some of the most heavily bisaed stuff I've read anywhere. Trade, reply immigration, economy, reply immigration ect, ect. It's not all about immigration.

PP and Franny need to watch the movie,
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I'm taking no further part in this debate until you do.

Did you see the Peston programme that was on ITV this morning?

In it Allegra Stratton had a tracker showing how important each headline issue was to voters since the campaign began (I think).

The categories were Immigration, Economy, NHS, Democracy and a couple of others. The category that was judged to be most important was Immigration.

Every political programme has been screaming about immigration for months.

The front pages of our national newspapers have been yelling at us for months.

On Thursday the Daily Mail printed this front page:

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On Friday the printed this correction (on an inside pag):

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IT'S NOT ME WHO BANGS ON ABOUT IMMIGRATION ALL THE TIME.

IT WAS YOU WHO MORE OR LESS COMPELLED ME TO POST THIS RESPONSE.

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