In the "News" today.

Hitch wrote:

You’re not my mate.

Not nice is it? -  when somebody continually makes remarks about your character and won’t let it go despite all the evidence. You’re possibly not an idiot etc and I am not a racist and have never said anything that any non-idiot could possibly construe as being racist. Don’t ever do it again, to anybody, unless it’s deserved.

The matter is closed.

Look what don't you understand Hitch? You don't have to "accept" my decision, if I think you spout race, I can suspend you and ask the other mods to take a vote in suspending or banning you permanently or for an agreed period. Somebody has been suspended before for saying almost exactly what you did. Accept it, stop mattering away, maybe read the thread back, go for a long walk do anything but STFU and move on or take the consequences.

I've changed my mind. You definitely are an idiot. And dangerously dim. YOU read the thread back line by line and highlight any racial slur - if you find one written by me i'll delete my account for good. That is a slur against race not religion or religious leaders. Go ahead, ban me as your PM has threatened, I've taken copies of all the posts. I suspect your colleagues find your attitude as pathetic as I do and anybody else reading this.

Bye then.

Hitch wrote:

I've changed my mind. You definitely are an idiot. And dangerously dim. YOU read the thread back line by line and highlight any racial slur - if you find one written by me i'll delete my account for good. That is a slur against race not religion or religious leaders. Go ahead, ban me as your PM has threatened, I've taken copies of all the posts. I suspect your colleagues find your attitude as pathetic as I do and anybody else reading this.

I've warned you about the post in question, it's there in black and white, I find it unacceptable, you refuse to accept a warning so you are suspended for 24hrs.
No need to copy posts on ATD we don't remove anything other than merge and split the odd thread, the post in its entirety will remain and anybody can make their own mind up.

Iggy wrote:

Hitch wrote:

I've changed my mind. You definitely are an idiot. And dangerously dim. YOU read the thread back line by line and highlight any racial slur - if you find one written by me i'll delete my account for good. That is a slur against race not religion or religious leaders. Go ahead, ban me as your PM has threatened, I've taken copies of all the posts. I suspect your colleagues find your attitude as pathetic as I do and anybody else reading this.

I've warned you about the post in question, it's there in black and white, I find it unacceptable, you refuse to accept a warning so you are suspended for 24hrs.
No need to copy posts on ATD we don't remove anything other than merge and split the odd thread, the post in its entirety will remain and anybody can make their own mind up.

Proof of why I try to avoid Racial or Political debates, particularly online where it it easier to twist or misconstrue what someone else is saying, it invariably ends up getting messy, a disappoiting outcome and I hope Hitch returns, a decent poster IMO.

Meh. He'll be back. They always do.

Right, where's that glider engine?

Hitch and Iggy are both good posters, i'm sure its just a spat! Personally i keep off politics and religion and just stick to giving Green Jim helpful advice...

Hitch wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

Religion. Fundamentally dull subject matter and an utterly pointless debate because depending on who you've spoken to, what you've read, heard or seen, or whose influence you've taken, this will ultimately determine which side of the line your definition of 'right' will fall.

It's almost as boring as politics, albeit probably a tad less corrupt.

I can't think of a more important global subject to be honest.

And I can't put it simpler than this and the words are shared.

Atheists and anti-theists have been defamed for years. Richard Dawkins's criticism of the repugnant Old Testament god was branded anti-Semitic. Sam Harris was accused of being "gross" and "racist" a few weeks ago by a belligerent Ben Affleck. And Christopher Hitchens was persistently charged with "Islamophobia" despite forming his opinions on Islam after studying it - the very opposite of prejudicial behaviour.

It is very important not to conflate two issues: hatred of Islam and hatred of Muslims. I cannot speak for all who hate, oppose or take a mildly dim view of Islam. So I'll refrain from using "we" and hope not to appear too self-centred in the process.
I would hate to see the Scanners-like head explosion Iggy would undergo if he ever met me - I hate Islam. I do not hate everybody who identifies as a Muslim. I also hate the Conservative party yet count a Tory among my closest friends. I loathe Christianity and yet the woman I respect most in the world - my mother - identifies as a Christian. This demonstrates at least one exception to the obscene conflation, so let's see if my hatred of Islam is as evil as racism.

I have studied in some depth Judaism , Christianity and Islam. I found all three promoted total authority from a divine dictator. I found the god I was meant to praise to be, in varying degrees across various texts, vain, homophobic, sexist and racist. Call me a loony of the left but I'm against these traits. I feel so strongly about this character that for me it is not a question of his existence as to whether or not I worship him. And were this God to appear to me, I hope I'd keep my nerve and refuse to submit.

I simply won't have it that after careful consideration, I am to be put in with the same stock as harmful bigots who form opinions that not only have no evidence but are contradicted by evidence.

In accusing me of a crime akin to racism, Iggy degrades not only me but people who have been subjected to racism. By virtue of birth people have been degraded beyond my comprehension and Iggy compares the motivation for this putrid  behaviour to the hatred of an idea. He should apologise to victims of racism as well as to those who hate Islam on grounds that are in no way prejudiced.

The logical conclusion of prohibiting the hatred of ideas is undemocratic and is the first step towards totalitarianism.

I will not, and neither should anybody, be bullied into silence by a bumbling demagogue for fear of being branded a bigot or racist.

My opinion is motivated entirely by revulsion of tyranny.

Hear, hear ! Is our condemnation of the pasoti control groupany different ?................... bleddy janners

I felt that there were parts of Iggy's and Hitch's arguments that I could accept......and also parts that I would of rejected.

What bothers me is that Iggy uses his trump card.....in this case "I'm a moderator" to shut up Hitch and his comments.

Shouldn't the fairest result be that they are both banned for 24hrs or not band at all.

zyph wrote:

I felt that there were parts of Iggy's and Hitch's arguments that I could accept......and also parts that I would of rejected.

What bothers me is that Iggy uses his trump card.....in this case "I'm a moderator" to shut up Hitch and his comments.

Shouldn't the fairest result be that they are both band for 24hrs or not band at all.

Read back to the post I complained about, my point was made but I got called an idiot, ignorant and worse. Hitch could have just accepted the point I was making, no apology needed, draw a line and move on. You can't say I didn't try FFS! It's been made to look like I object to Hitch not what he said, that's not true. I hope Hitch returns and we can move on let's see.
In a couple of weeks time I step down and you can take over Zyphe, or Hitch or who ever, in the meantime if a post offends me I will deal with it. If anybody else thinks I dealt with it badly then feel free to say, democracy innit? If I just banned people I don't like you would have been history nearly two years ago Zyphe.

zyph wrote:

I felt that there were parts of Iggy's and Hitch's arguments that I could accept......and also parts that I would of rejected.

What bothers me is that Iggy uses his trump card.....in this case "I'm a moderator" to shut up Hitch and his comments.

Shouldn't the fairest result be that they are both band for 24hrs or not band at all.

AstiSpumante wrote:

zyph wrote:

I felt that there were parts of Iggy's and Hitch's arguments that I could accept......and also parts that I would of rejected.

What bothers me is that Iggy uses his trump card.....in this case "I'm a moderator" to shut up Hitch and his comments.

Shouldn't the fairest result be that they are both band for 24hrs or not band at all.

Well done Asti.......I stand corrected......I will write out banned a hundred times.......or I could RIGHT out banned a hundred times.

Bit cheeky of Iggy putting ...... ...after my name.........but he's probably still getting over his manflu.

Iggy wrote:

Hitch wrote:

I've changed my mind. You definitely are an idiot. And dangerously dim. YOU read the thread back line by line and highlight any racial slur - if you find one written by me i'll delete my account for good. That is a slur against race not religion or religious leaders. Go ahead, ban me as your PM has threatened, I've taken copies of all the posts. I suspect your colleagues find your attitude as pathetic as I do and anybody else reading this.

I've warned you about the post in question, it's there in black and white, I find it unacceptable, you refuse to accept a warning so you are suspended for 24hrs.
No need to copy posts on ATD we don't remove anything other than merge and split the odd thread, the post in its entirety will remain and anybody can make their own mind up.

Can you tell us which post so offended you and contravened the ATD rulebook? I've scanned through the last few pages but could do with a pointer. Regarding Hitch supposedly abusing you by calling you an "idiot", well that's pretty tame compared to "wanker" or "thick coont" or even threatening to knock somebody out wouldn't you agree?

Hitch wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

Hitch wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

Hitch wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

Well whether they should subsidies and tax-breaks is another debate altogether, but those who DO want to practise their religion peacefully (which, even you must surely admit is the overwhelming majority) should be able to do so even if you don't agree with the principle of it.

Again, you say that Islam's followers refuse point blank to reform. If we are to take it that most Muslims despise ISIS and jihadists (and why the heck wouldn't they because Muslims are the number one victims of jihadists) then why exactly does their religion need reforming if the vast majority of people practise it in a peaceful way anyway.

The people who need reforming or preferably being locked up forever are the jihadists. And whilst I know that you surely can't really think that jihadists are representative of the majority of Muslims, I still would strongly disagree with your text I tackled in the previous paragraphs which suggests otherwise.

Do you know what the penalty for apostasy is as taught by 'moderate' Imams in THIS country ? Death. Forced religious teaching and indoctrination of the very young and impressionable is nothing short of child abuse. Talk to a few women born into muslim families about how they feel they are treated. Infact if you can find any talk especially to women born in Saudi Arabia. Wahhabism is particularly evil.

All religious teaching is the practice of telling lies to the very young, the vulnerable and the stupid. I'd personally like it all consigned to museums and history or preferably wiped from the face of the earth. Maybe it'll happen in the next few thousand years after the apocalypse.

Making sweeping statements such as 'moderate Imams support death for apostasy' is part of the problem in my opinion. Do they all? Do anything like all Muslims support it? Again the answers to both is no.

What you are doing in my view (which I STRONGLY disagree with) is writing off all Muslims who want to follow a peaceful interpretation of their faith just because a small minority support barbarous punishments and a much smaller minority perform barbarous actions. The many peaceful Muslims who I know and in one case have lived with would be shocked at the very idea that someone would generalise him as supporting such monstrous actions.

You talk about 'if I can talk to' somebody, but I'd spin that on its head and say if you actually talk to the many Muslims in this country who are good, kind and more liberal than you or even me then you may change your views too.

Have a listen to this.

Apostasy = Death penalty

All of the 1.6 billions Muslims in the world must have spoken with their lips closed in that video.

Impressive feat that it didn't create more of an echo.

It's what ALL the 1.6 billion Muslims in the world were taught as impressionable and vulnerable kids. You do accept that right?

At the bottom in bold. To infer the whole Muslim race are radical Muslims that advocate the death penalty for apostasy is wrong and is racists as it implicates a whole race. There was no distinction between radical and moderate Isalmism, and that's all it would have taken. He refused to accept a warning about it so has been suspended for 24hrs. If you want to take it that he's been suspended for calling me an idiot is your shout I only highlighted it to show that in this instance I kept my cool, no slanging from me. I can dish out the names and take them, I haven't banned you either and you've called me much worse than idiot.

Thanks for the reply, I'm struggling to see how you can interpret the highlighted sentence as racist, he clearly states that that is what they were taught [FWIW I haven't got a clue if that's correct or not] he doesn't claim that they all believe or practice the inferred teaching.

That's worthy of a ban? Really?

But if you read what Sam says before about moderate Islam Hitch replies with that to refute what Sam says. I thought it was wrong and I got upset by it. That is me moderating, some of us get upset by different things. The point is Czarcs is that he could have just accepted the warning but he didn't.
Anyway I asked the question, majority agreed, decision made, not for me to decide whether it was right or wrong that's down to the jury now. I am out of this now.

Apostasy.

Muslims would ...."know of"...... (thats different to being taught)....that the death rule can be found under sharia code of Islam, regarding following other faiths.

Judaism knew of the death penalty for worshipping other Gods as well.....Deut 13 6-11.

We can all be taught or learn of things during our lives....but it doesn't mean we condone or practise them.

Glad you understand my point at least Zyphe.

It's just a football forum FFS! We mods just want a quiet life and reasonably polite debate.

It was a wind up and Iggy was the target.

seadog wrote:

It's just a football forum FFS! We mods just want a quiet life and reasonably polite debate.

It was a wind up and Iggy was the target.

We have to put up with fishing being talked about........ ......so it's not all football is it ?

Right you cnuts,  THE BIGGEST news of today is that my washing machine appears to be fooked. It's flashing up 'E03', which is a 'water not draining' error, apparently. I've followed the  troubleshooting guide and drained off the water manually via the filter on the front, cleaned it up, dried it, and then switched it off at the mains. Supposedly everything would reset and then be cushty. It's not.

Put it on to just do a spin for 7 minutes and it ambled around the drum slowly for 5 mins before giving the same E03 error message.

To top it off I've looked in the detergent tray and the fabric conditioner hasn't been taken from the original wash, so I think the fackin machine is lying to me.

Any domestic appliance guru's out there?

(Oh, and it's 14 months old so 2 months outta warranty  )

zyph wrote:

seadog wrote:

It's just a football forum FFS! We mods just want a quiet life and reasonably polite debate.

It was a wind up and Iggy was the target.

We have to put up with fishing being talked about........ ......so it's not all football is it ?

....and washing machines ......

Czarcasm wrote:

Right you cnuts,  THE BIGGEST news of today is that my washing machine appears to be fooked. It's flashing up 'E03', which is a 'water not draining' error, apparently. I've followed the  troubleshooting guide and drained off the water manually via the filter on the front, cleaned it up, dried it, and then switched it off at the mains. Supposedly everything would reset and then be cushty. It's not.

Put it on to just do a spin for 7 minutes and it ambled around the drum slowly for 5 mins before giving the same E03 error message.

To top it off I've looked in the detergent tray and the fabric conditioner hasn't been taken from the original wash, so I think the fackin machine is lying to me.

Any domestic appliance guru's out there?

(Oh, and it's 14 months old so 2 months outta warranty  )

Sounds like the pump, is it blocked?

pepsipete wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

Right you cnuts,  THE BIGGEST news of today is that my washing machine appears to be fooked. It's flashing up 'E03', which is a 'water not draining' error, apparently. I've followed the  troubleshooting guide and drained off the water manually via the filter on the front, cleaned it up, dried it, and then switched it off at the mains. Supposedly everything would reset and then be cushty. It's not.

Put it on to just do a spin for 7 minutes and it ambled around the drum slowly for 5 mins before giving the same E03 error message.

To top it off I've looked in the detergent tray and the fabric conditioner hasn't been taken from the original wash, so I think the fackin machine is lying to me.

Any domestic appliance guru's out there?

(Oh, and it's 14 months old so 2 months outta warranty  )

Sounds like the pump, is it blocked?

See if you can remove the soap tray and see if it's bunged up, ours does that or the filter which it sounds like you have done, other than that you'll need a man with the knowledge.