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Greenskin

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PostSubject: David Norris   Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:27 am

Looks like the cynical among us were right all along about why Norris and the rest left the club in the fire sale of 2007 and that the stories of blackmail and wanting to move closer to home were a complete and utter smokescreen of bullshit;

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Some salutary lessons for the current Argyle board there when he talks of the inexperience and lack of resources evident at boardroom level which were so obviously going to hamstring the club in the Holloway days, the latter's reputation seems to be more and more worthy of redemption as time goes on. Interesting too about the snag which stopped him returning to the club in 2015.
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:52 am

Yep, Ollie was sold down the river...will we ever be so close to top flight football again?
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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:26 am

Greenskin wrote:
Looks like the cynical among us were right all along about why Norris and the rest left the club in the fire sale of 2007 and that the stories of blackmail and wanting to move closer to home were a complete and utter smokescreen of bullshit;

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Some salutary lessons for the current Argyle board there when he talks of the inexperience and lack of resources evident at boardroom level which were so obviously going to hamstring the club in the Holloway days, the latter's reputation seems to be more and more worthy of redemption as time goes on. Interesting too about the snag which stopped him returning to the club in 2015.

I still think that Norris would have eventually left when he saw how much money was on offer elsewhere but the idea of Norris a decent pro, blackmailing the club into transfering him I think is utter bollocks as was all the reasoning for the great fire sale of 2007 but I am sure SFD will be along shortly to tell us otherwise. Sleep Sleep Sleep

I heard a great story from someone well, known and respected within the Argyle world, regarding the time just after Sturrock (mk 1) left that lays bare the naivety and inexperience with that post 2002 board.

When Sturrock left, the Argyle board were caught frozen in the headlights. They'd never had to appoint a manager before; when Sturrock arrived back in 2000 it was as a result of being recommended for the job by David Byrne, the favourite was still Ian Atkins whilst Kevin Summerfield was doing a reasonable job of steadying the ship as caretaker. Anyway fast forward to 2004 and whilst trying to identify a replacement, it became clear Colin Lee might be interested. So the board in their naivety decided to ask their counterparts at Walsall for permission to talk to Lee.

Anyone with any history or knowledge of involvement with football will know that you don't actually ask for formal permission to talk to another clubs manager until you've met them in a little chef car park with contracts drawn up and its all over bar the shouting. Not Village Argo though, they thought that asking for permission to talk was actually just that.

So having assumed Argyle were going to appoint Lee quickly what with it getting near the business end of the season, Walsall were  surprised to see Argyle delay the decision to appoint Lee. You see Paul Sturrock was talking up Bobby Williamson in the press and that was the decision made, a common theme as later Stapleton would seek out Sturrocks advice on potential transfer targets.

Lee was sacked by Walsall for 'misconduct' although his contract was eventually paid up after intervention from the LMA

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Innocent Egbunike

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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:12 pm

One of my favourite Argyle players. Definitely top 10 and probably top 5. Never gave up, scored important goals and made the engine of the side roar. The epitome of a team player.

'Forgave' Holloway a long time ago. The way he left stank because of his over-exuberant claims of love for the club but it has been clear for a good while he was working with one hand tied behind his back. He's also since been contrite on more than one occasion about leaving us in the sh*t and refused to celebrate when his superior Blackpool stuck 2 past us without reply at Home Park. Looking back, I think I was more a heartbroken jilted ex than anything and I still think PAFC and Ollie were very right for each other in lots of ways.

As for Norris, he was just one of many who took up an offer he couldn't ultimately refuse elsewhere. In the interview, he confirms the Ipswich contract was more than 5x what Argyle could or would offer. I remember Dick Trickle and I went to the Ipswich game at Portman Road the day before the transfer window closed. It was all but certain Norris was leaving but he didn't play that night which confirmed it. To add insult to injury, Steve MacLean missed a last minute penalty which would have given us an undeserved win. How prescient.

I don't know whether or not the board at the time seriously listened to any offers of invesmtent, or if any were really forthcoming, but it was a massive opportunity missed. It could quite feasibly happen all over again under the present incumbents. One thing that still puzzles me is how we squandered so much transfer cash on such bad replacements. The Norris fee alone was rumoured at over £3m from a very well-placed source.
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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:06 pm

Hugh Watt wrote:
Greenskin wrote:
Looks like the cynical among us were right all along about why Norris and the rest left the club in the fire sale of 2007 and that the stories of blackmail and wanting to move closer to home were a complete and utter smokescreen of bullshit;

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Some salutary lessons for the current Argyle board there when he talks of the inexperience and lack of resources evident at boardroom level which were so obviously going to hamstring the club in the Holloway days, the latter's reputation seems to be more and more worthy of redemption as time goes on. Interesting too about the snag which stopped him returning to the club in 2015.

I still think that Norris would have eventually left when he saw how much money was on offer elsewhere but the idea of Norris a decent pro, blackmailing the club into transfering him I think is utter bollocks as was all the reasoning for the great fire sale of 2007 but I am sure SFD will be along shortly to tell us otherwise.  Sleep  Sleep  Sleep

I heard a great story from someone well, known and respected within the Argyle world, regarding the time just after Sturrock (mk 1) left that lays bare the naivety and inexperience with that post 2002 board.

When Sturrock left, the Argyle board were caught frozen in the headlights. They'd never had to appoint a manager before; when Sturrock arrived back in 2000 it was as a result of being recommended for the job by David Byrne, the favourite was still Ian Atkins whilst Kevin Summerfield was doing a reasonable job of steadying the ship as caretaker. Anyway fast forward to 2004 and whilst trying to identify a replacement, it became clear Colin Lee might be interested. So the board in their naivety decided to ask their counterparts at Walsall for permission to talk to Lee.

Anyone with any history or knowledge of involvement with football will know that you don't actually ask for formal permission to talk to another clubs manager until you've met them in a little chef car park with contracts drawn up and its all over bar the shouting. Not Village Argo though, they thought that asking for permission to talk was actually just that.

So having assumed Argyle were going to appoint Lee quickly what with it getting near the business end of the season, Walsall were  surprised to see Argyle delay the decision to appoint Lee. You see Paul Sturrock was talking up Bobby Williamson in the press and that was the decision made, a common theme as later Stapleton would seek out Sturrocks advice on potential transfer targets.

Lee was sacked by Walsall for 'misconduct' although his contract was eventually paid up after intervention from the LMA

Why would I do that?
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Freathy

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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:12 pm

Les Miserable wrote:
Yep, Ollie was sold down the river...will we ever be so close to top flight football again?

Always said we could and should have gone up in 2008. We had one hell of a team, easily up there with the best in the Championship. Then came staplewallet's infamous "if we're there or there about in Jan, we'll go for it" statement. The rest as they say....
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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:41 pm

Freathy wrote:
Les Miserable wrote:
Yep, Ollie was sold down the river...will we ever be so close to top flight football again?

Always said we could and should have gone up in 2008.  We had one hell of a team, easily up there with the best in the Championship.  Then came staplewallet's infamous "if we're there or there about in Jan, we'll go for it"  statement.  The rest as they say....



You are not wrong there.

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beesrus



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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:02 pm

We've had better players at Argyle in the past such as obviously Steve McCall, Brian Hall, Paul Mariner, Tony Book, Bruce Grobbelaar and Peter Shilton, but yes, the whole squad was without doubt the most talented in my lifetime by some degree. Well good enough to have gone up if all had stayed, particularly Norris and SEB. The players and manager got a whiff of the property thing being more important than the football, and that was that, compounded by the disaster that was Surrock 2, smarting from his recent demise.
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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:13 pm

beesrus wrote:
We've had better players at Argyle in the past such as obviously Steve McCall, Brian Hall, Paul Mariner and Peter Shilton, but yes, the whole squad was without doubt the most talented in my lifetime by some degree. Well good enough to have gone up if all had stayed, particularly Norris and SEB. The players and manager got a whiff of the property thing being more important than the football, and that was that, compounded by the disaster that was Surrock 2, smarting from his recent demise.

Not forgetting Halmosi who I thought was the best player I'd seen at Home Park in my lifetime and the mercurial Akos Buszacky, however the whole added up to far more than the sum of its parts and it was disgraceful that the greediness of Paul Stapleton sabotaged our best ever chance of promotion by selling off half our squad midway through a season

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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:19 pm

Great player Halmosi, Hugh, and remember him being carried off in his last game having been pegged back into a meaningless midfield bot by Sturrock. What a waste, but hey, his sale certainly helped Stapleton sell the club to Kagami and his ex-copper genius financial adviser, Campbell.
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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:26 pm

David Friio my choice of that era....but the goon called Bobbie Williamson didn't like him for some reason....never understand what Sturrock saw in Williamson to recommend him to PAFC.
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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:45 pm

Friio's legs had gone by the time he left us and he made no impact at all at Forest when he went there.

That said he remains one of my all time faves It was only his age that went against him. The standards he set when winning the two titles were off the scale really. For that 2 0r 3 year period he was easily performing at CCC level but by the time he got there his powers had begun to diminish so he didn't really get a fair crack at the higher standard of opponent.

Still a legend though and subject of one of the all-time great Argyle photos.

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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:45 am

To think he was initially signed on trial as a Central defender!

I thinks he's been scouting in the South of France for Manchester United for the past few years and was repsonsible for the signing of Paul Pogba into their youth academy.

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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:02 pm

That moment when he skipped through the QPR defence...

There used to be an amazing clip from somebody's mobile phone of that very moment on GoS. Quite possibly the greatest thing I have ever seen.
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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:28 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Still a legend though and subject of one of the all-time great Argyle photos.

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Absolutely a legend & my all time favourite player. Not often you get a player who would run through a brick wall for their club.

Sturrock Mk 1's team added up to far more than their constituent parts but a couple of those players like Friio & Coughlan were the bigger parts.
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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:24 pm

Talking of old faces, I read that Sturrock is returning to Argyle a as club ambassador.
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zyph

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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:59 pm

Golfing days with possible future sponsors.
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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:18 pm

Life's a funny old game when it gets near the final whistle.
Luggo certainly seems to want a role at a football club still. And if a place can be found for him for a season ticket, a few beers and pasties, then great. Overall, Sturrock has done a good job at the club, and time heals the last debacle. Not many high profiles like him hook up down here near the end. Sport clubs need their old geezers hanging around telling stories.

Does anyone play golf anymore ?
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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:49 pm

VillageGreen wrote:
Talking of old faces, I read that Sturrock is returning to Argyle a as club ambassador.

As long as thats all hes returning as.
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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:26 am

Hugh Watt wrote:
beesrus wrote:
We've had better players at Argyle in the past such as obviously Steve McCall, Brian Hall, Paul Mariner and Peter Shilton, but yes, the whole squad was without doubt the most talented in my lifetime by some degree. Well good enough to have gone up if all had stayed, particularly Norris and SEB. The players and manager got a whiff of the property thing being more important than the football, and that was that, compounded by the disaster that was Surrock 2, smarting from his recent demise.

Not forgetting Halmosi who I thought was the best player I'd seen at Home Park in my lifetime and the mercurial Akos Buszacky, however the whole added up to far more than the sum of its parts and it was disgraceful that the greediness of Paul Stapleton sabotaged our best ever chance of promotion by selling off half our squad midway through a season

Agree with that. He had it all, Halmosi.
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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:23 am

Innocent Egbunike wrote:
Hugh Watt wrote:
beesrus wrote:
We've had better players at Argyle in the past such as obviously Steve McCall, Brian Hall, Paul Mariner and Peter Shilton, but yes, the whole squad was without doubt the most talented in my lifetime by some degree. Well good enough to have gone up if all had stayed, particularly Norris and SEB. The players and manager got a whiff of the property thing being more important than the football, and that was that, compounded by the disaster that was Surrock 2, smarting from his recent demise.

Not forgetting Halmosi who I thought was the best player I'd seen at Home Park in my lifetime and the mercurial Akos Buszacky, however the whole added up to far more than the sum of its parts and it was disgraceful that the greediness of Paul Stapleton sabotaged our best ever chance of promotion by selling off half our squad midway through a season

Agree with that. He had it all, Halmosi.

'Tis true. I've always had it in my head that Paul Dalton was my favourite ever Argyle player - and he probably still is. But a massively contributory factor was that he was in 'that' Shilton team that played the best Argyle football I've ever seen.

Halmosi obviously went on the perform regularly in the Prem, and as a winger, your technical ability has to be at a very high level for that to happen.

Great times.
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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:13 pm

Although he was slightly beyond his best when he joined us. I'd also say Lilian Nalis was one the best players I've seen in the green shirt. Never wasted a ball, level headed intelligent. A lot like Steve McCall but I think he was better than McCall

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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:29 pm

Nalis was a great player, and Sturrock's dsimissal of him was criminal, but McCall was further up the pitch where it really mattered. And lets not forget he proved himself in a great team earlier in his career. In front of the back four, spraying the ball around is a comparatively easy ask, especially for an old one, so Nalis was never really tested down here. Shame Fletcher couldn't even manage that, given he was such a talented gentleman.
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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:36 pm

Czarcasm wrote:
Halmosi obviously went on the perform regularly in the Prem, and as a winger, your technical ability has to be at a very high level for that to happen.

Great times.

Not so sure that's correct. Hull couldn't get rid of him quick enough. He played 18 times over 2 and a half years. Decent player in the championship but the premiership was a step too far.
I always thought Gary Nelson was consistent and scored goals. Did well at all of his clubs.
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PostSubject: Re: David Norris   Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:48 pm

Halmosi as an individual was a top player, but he was part of the jigsaw that made up one of the best Argyle teams in recent years. I remember a pre-season friendly against Bristol Rovers (I think) where Halmosi, Buszacky, Norris et al, played some of the best football I have ever seen at Home Park. Not that the game meant anything, but it certainly showed what that side was capable of. The game finished 8-2 or something like that.

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