bid to take development project from James Brent

spowell92 wrote:

Exactly Angry. Perhaps if we trade the ministand for a grandstand and be willing to share Home Park with Albion. Then add to the life centre and Home Park to make the area home to the Basketball team and perhaps even an Ice Hockey side? Maybe even take the initiative when it comes to applying for grants and offer something unique. Curling for example proved a popular and captivating event at the recent winter Olympic games, yet there is only one Ice Curling Rink in England! Then grant money might become available.

The University of Worcester has a new off campus "Worcester Arena" which is pretty decent sports hall and gym that is also home the Worcester Wolves basketball team and the GB men's (and I think women's) wheelchair basketball as well as University and community events. I think it cost about £15m to build the arena and the University received a tonne of money from the Olympic legacy fund as well as many other trusts and fundraising schemes for it.  

the ice rink/arena size planned would be too small for an ice hockey team. A team would be great there but brent wont build a decent one to cash in on this, and ice skating shows, or curling, or be a permanent home for raiders aswell as open for public use the rest of the time.

What i am suggesting is that Argyle plan and design a new Granstand without the Brent add-ons as a plan B.

As others have said, Albion and the Raiders could be brought into the fold, along with possible other sports [existing and new] in Plymouth.

I would like to see an Ice Hockey team here too.

Hampden Park received lottery funding for redevelopment, i know Home Park is not the same, but Hampden Park did get help.

The UK Government eventually provided a grant of £3.5 million in 1992, which allowed work to begin on a £12 million project to convert Hampden into an all-seater stadium.[51][55][58] The last match played in front of the sloping terraces was the 1992 Scottish League Cup Final.[56] Within a year, the east and west ends of the ground had been replaced and the partially rebuilt Hampden was re-opened for a friendly match between Scotland and Netherlands on 23 March 1994.[55] It was then also used for the later stages of the 1993–94 Scottish Cup competition.[59] As the capacity of the old South Stand had been limited to 4,500, the total capacity of Hampden had been reduced to approximately 37,000.[55]

The final stage of the renovation began in November 1997, costing £59 million.[35][60] There was a cost overrun[52] and a fraud squad investigated alleged financial irregularities.[61] Queen's Park retained ownership of the ground but the renovation was funded by the National Lottery.[52] The South Stand was replaced and the stadium was re-opened for the 1999 Scottish Cup Final.[62] The ground now has a capacity of 52,025.

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What about the Football Foundation, we are a lower level club theses days...

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Obtaining grants and lottery or any other funding requires a lot of planning and expertise, along with providig benefits to other sports and the wider community. Whilst the reluctant one owns the club, it will be a non starter imo.

Angry wrote:

spowell92 wrote:

Exactly Angry. Perhaps if we trade the ministand for a grandstand and be willing to share Home Park with Albion. Then add to the life centre and Home Park to make the area home to the Basketball team and perhaps even an Ice Hockey side? Maybe even take the initiative when it comes to applying for grants and offer something unique. Curling for example proved a popular and captivating event at the recent winter Olympic games, yet there is only one Ice Curling Rink in England! Then grant money might become available.

The University of Worcester has a new off campus "Worcester Arena" which is pretty decent sports hall and gym that is also home the Worcester Wolves basketball team and the GB men's (and I think women's) wheelchair basketball as well as University and community events. I think it cost about £15m to build the arena and the University received a tonne of money from the Olympic legacy fund as well as many other trusts and fundraising schemes for it.  

the ice rink/arena size planned would be too small for an ice hockey team. A team would be great there but brent wont build a decent one to cash in on this, and ice skating shows, or curling, or be a permanent home for raiders aswell as open for public use the rest of the time.

Solihull Barons, who are a Premier League Ice Hockey side have a capacity of 800. Didn't the current Ice Rink plans intend to have 1500 seats? For another comparison 2000 is the capacity of the home of Manchester Phoenix who won the league. 60m by 30m (the intended size) are probably acceptable dimensions for the league.

Just cut the crap with the Nandos, Cinema and everything else that Bretonside will provide for the city in a more logical location and instead focus on the area for sports and the community. Create ties with the University, all the cities sporting teams and apply for all the grants and trusts available.

Brent is on record as stating he has no intention of building an Ice Rink with a National Ice Hockey team in mind. He has said that from the outset. If you think someone else like our uber-insular city council are gonna pick up the NIHL baton and run with it, prepare to be disappointed.

spowell92 wrote:

Angry wrote:

spowell92 wrote:

Exactly Angry. Perhaps if we trade the ministand for a grandstand and be willing to share Home Park with Albion. Then add to the life centre and Home Park to make the area home to the Basketball team and perhaps even an Ice Hockey side? Maybe even take the initiative when it comes to applying for grants and offer something unique. Curling for example proved a popular and captivating event at the recent winter Olympic games, yet there is only one Ice Curling Rink in England! Then grant money might become available.

The University of Worcester has a new off campus "Worcester Arena" which is pretty decent sports hall and gym that is also home the Worcester Wolves basketball team and the GB men's (and I think women's) wheelchair basketball as well as University and community events. I think it cost about £15m to build the arena and the University received a tonne of money from the Olympic legacy fund as well as many other trusts and fundraising schemes for it.  

the ice rink/arena size planned would be too small for an ice hockey team. A team would be great there but brent wont build a decent one to cash in on this, and ice skating shows, or curling, or be a permanent home for raiders aswell as open for public use the rest of the time.

Solihull Barons, who are a Premier League Ice Hockey side have a capacity of 800. Didn't the current Ice Rink plans intend to have 1500 seats? For another comparison 2000 is the capacity of the home of Manchester Phoenix who won the league. 60m by 30m (the intended size) are probably acceptable dimensions for the league.

Just cut the crap with the Nandos, Cinema and everything else that Bretonside will provide for the city in a more logical location and instead focus on the area for sports and the community. Create ties with the University, all the cities sporting teams and apply for all the grants and trusts available.

  

Were my eyes deceiving me or did i just see a Brent out thread on pasoti appear and disappear within the space of 2 minutes!!
Anyone else see it?

I tried to access it but was blocked

spowell92 wrote:

Angry wrote:

spowell92 wrote:

Exactly Angry. Perhaps if we trade the ministand for a grandstand and be willing to share Home Park with Albion. Then add to the life centre and Home Park to make the area home to the Basketball team and perhaps even an Ice Hockey side? Maybe even take the initiative when it comes to applying for grants and offer something unique. Curling for example proved a popular and captivating event at the recent winter Olympic games, yet there is only one Ice Curling Rink in England! Then grant money might become available.

The University of Worcester has a new off campus "Worcester Arena" which is pretty decent sports hall and gym that is also home the Worcester Wolves basketball team and the GB men's (and I think women's) wheelchair basketball as well as University and community events. I think it cost about £15m to build the arena and the University received a tonne of money from the Olympic legacy fund as well as many other trusts and fundraising schemes for it.  

the ice rink/arena size planned would be too small for an ice hockey team. A team would be great there but brent wont build a decent one to cash in on this, and ice skating shows, or curling, or be a permanent home for raiders aswell as open for public use the rest of the time.

Solihull Barons, who are a Premier League Ice Hockey side have a capacity of 800. Didn't the current Ice Rink plans intend to have 1500 seats? For another comparison 2000 is the capacity of the home of Manchester Phoenix who won the league. 60m by 30m (the intended size) are probably acceptable dimensions for the league.



Just cut the crap with the Nandos, Cinema and everything else that Bretonside will provide for the city in a more logical location and instead focus on the area for sports and the community. Create ties with the University, all the cities sporting teams and apply for all the grants and trusts available.

I did quite a bit of research into British ice hockey when HHP was first announced. For any team to be any where near sustainable they had to have as a minimum seating for 2000. Most teams were much higher than that and their stadiums were also used for other ice shows etc. There was a couple of teams with smaller capacities who had suffered financial problems and were either subsidised by councils or owners. One or two teams had gone bust as well. There are two major ice hockey leagues the Premier league and Elite league, I can't remember now if Solihull was one of the teams I looked at. It wasn't easy to research either because some teams play in sports complexes where the capacities given were for the entire complex and not just the ice rink, so I had to do more fishing to find the right capacities. Some ice rinks had minimal capacities for local events. Eg. schools ice hockey leagues.

There was no doubt IMHO that the proposed ice rink at HHP was not of a sufficient capacity to run a Plymouth ice hockey team in any major league. It was also no where near big enough to expect ice shows to come to it either. 1500 seats is also much bigger than you would expect to be needed for any local event. Someone else ( forget who) also researched the same thing and I remember we both came to the same conclusion that yet again Plymouth was going to build something that was going to be not quite good enough for what people would really like to see.

Some people may say the ice rink and associated seating is planned to be that size because of the amount of retail space required under it. Another conclusion is that the rink and it's seating can't be made any bigger because it will just not fit on to the site available without encroaching further into the park. So we have an ice rink that's not big enough, a stand that actually decreases the possible capacity of PAFC. A stand that didn't even have sufficient space for a supporters bar. ( Hopefully that has been corrected ) Now as the two most important parts of the development are supposed to be a new stand for PAFC and a replacement ice rink for the Pavilions and neither are arguably of a sufficient size to do the jobs required of them or provide the South West with new sports ( ice hockey) the only conclusion is that too much is being jammed into the development site. The hotel might be big enough. The cinema might be big enough. The restaurants might be big enough but the sports venues which is the main reason for going to Home Park aren't. Something in my humble opinion doesn't add up somewhere.

alannotivvy wrote:

I tried to access it but was blocked

So much for freedom of speech.

The corrupt bastards need exposing.
When will the sheep ever wake up ?!

Punchdrunk wrote:

Were my eyes deceiving me or did i just see a Brent out thread on pasoti appear and disappear within the space of 2  minutes!!
Anyone else see it?

And they say on PASOTI that they allow free speech and/or all opinions, hypocrites...

Anything that upsets the apple cart and they flap..

It's absolutely staggering how this kind of thing can go on.
Is there any other football club in the UK that has morphed its main supporters website into this kind of internal corruption?

If you want to read what was said it is on our Excretia tickets thread

Richard Blight wrote:

spowell92 wrote:

Angry wrote:

spowell92 wrote:

Exactly Angry. Perhaps if we trade the ministand for a grandstand and be willing to share Home Park with Albion. Then add to the life centre and Home Park to make the area home to the Basketball team and perhaps even an Ice Hockey side? Maybe even take the initiative when it comes to applying for grants and offer something unique. Curling for example proved a popular and captivating event at the recent winter Olympic games, yet there is only one Ice Curling Rink in England! Then grant money might become available.

The University of Worcester has a new off campus "Worcester Arena" which is pretty decent sports hall and gym that is also home the Worcester Wolves basketball team and the GB men's (and I think women's) wheelchair basketball as well as University and community events. I think it cost about £15m to build the arena and the University received a tonne of money from the Olympic legacy fund as well as many other trusts and fundraising schemes for it.  

the ice rink/arena size planned would be too small for an ice hockey team. A team would be great there but brent wont build a decent one to cash in on this, and ice skating shows, or curling, or be a permanent home for raiders aswell as open for public use the rest of the time.

Solihull Barons, who are a Premier League Ice Hockey side have a capacity of 800. Didn't the current Ice Rink plans intend to have 1500 seats? For another comparison 2000 is the capacity of the home of Manchester Phoenix who won the league. 60m by 30m (the intended size) are probably acceptable dimensions for the league.



Just cut the crap with the Nandos, Cinema and everything else that Bretonside will provide for the city in a more logical location and instead focus on the area for sports and the community. Create ties with the University, all the cities sporting teams and apply for all the grants and trusts available.

I did quite a bit of research into British ice hockey when HHP was first announced. For any team to be any where near sustainable they had to have as a minimum seating for 2000. Most teams were much higher than that and their stadiums were also used for other ice shows etc. There was a couple of teams with smaller capacities who had suffered financial problems and were either subsidised by councils or owners. One or two teams had gone bust as well. There are two major ice hockey leagues the Premier league and Elite league, I can't remember now if Solihull was one of the teams I looked at. It wasn't easy to research either because some teams play in sports complexes where the capacities given were for the entire complex and not just the ice rink, so I had to do more fishing to find the right capacities. Some ice rinks had minimal capacities for local events. Eg. schools ice hockey leagues.

There was no doubt IMHO that the proposed ice rink at HHP was not of a sufficient capacity to run a Plymouth ice hockey team in any major league. It was also no where near big enough to expect ice shows to come to it either. 1500 seats is also much bigger than you would expect to be needed for any local event. Someone else ( forget who) also researched the same thing and I remember we both came to the same conclusion that yet again Plymouth was going to build something that was going to be not quite good enough for what people would really like to see.

Some people may say the ice rink and associated seating is planned to be that size because of the amount of retail space required under it. Another conclusion is that the rink and it's seating can't be made any bigger because it will just not fit on to the site available without encroaching further into the park. So we have an ice rink that's not big enough, a stand that actually decreases the possible capacity of PAFC. A stand that didn't even have sufficient space for a supporters bar. ( Hopefully that has been corrected ) Now as the two most important parts of the development are supposed to be a new stand for PAFC and a replacement ice rink for the Pavilions and neither are arguably of a sufficient size to do the jobs required of them or provide the South West with new sports ( ice hockey) the only conclusion is that too much is being jammed into the development site. The hotel might be big enough. The cinema might be big enough. The restaurants might be big enough but the sports venues which is the main reason for going to Home Park aren't. Something in my humble opinion doesn't add up somewhere.

Here you go Richard.

Stuart_C wrote:

Done some research into the viability of an Ice Hockey franchise

With reference to the Cardiff Devils there is an interesting story which details the haves and have not nature of the Elite League as can be seen from last years league standings below with average attendances and capacities listed. The article below states that Cardiff have break even figure of 1,600 with budget being sixth highest in the league.  

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Cardiff have been struggling whilst playing at temporary "Big Blue Tent" which has poor facilities but fully expect to kick on when they move into new 3,000 seat national Ice Arena, forming part of a truly impressive development.

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Elite League standings
Pos                    att     capacity
1 Nottingham 5177  8000
2 Belfast 4392  7000
3 Sheffield 4445  13500
4 Coventry 2179  3000
5 Cardiff 1459  2500
6 Edinburgh 957   3800
7 Fife 1378  3280
8 Braehead 2189  4000
9 Dundee 953    2300
10 Hull        773    2000

There are numerous accounts of smaller Ice Hockey franchises having financial difficulties.

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Most worrying is the report that the Dundee Ice Arena itself is in financial difficulties and is reliant on £250K/annum subsidy from tax payer.
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It concerns me that the proposed HHP 1500 seat arena not being able to warrant the Ice Hockey franchise and professional Ice Galas or multi purpose flooring required for Raiders or Concerts will turn into a white elephant with seats seldom used and could end up relying on PCC subsidies.

Wouldn't it make sense to either downgrade it to few hundred seats suitable for local use and give more room around the buildings or go for it with 3500+ seat capacity Ice Rink likely to attract a Ice Hockey franchise bid which would give 5,000 plus concert venue and truly European standard home for the Raiders. The IMAX or Hotel would probably have to be relocated off development but I reckon Mr Brent's confidants on PCC could find a more fitting alternative location for him.

spowell92 wrote:

Angry wrote:

spowell92 wrote:

Exactly Angry. Perhaps if we trade the ministand for a grandstand and be willing to share Home Park with Albion. Then add to the life centre and Home Park to make the area home to the Basketball team and perhaps even an Ice Hockey side? Maybe even take the initiative when it comes to applying for grants and offer something unique. Curling for example proved a popular and captivating event at the recent winter Olympic games, yet there is only one Ice Curling Rink in England! Then grant money might become available.

The University of Worcester has a new off campus "Worcester Arena" which is pretty decent sports hall and gym that is also home the Worcester Wolves basketball team and the GB men's (and I think women's) wheelchair basketball as well as University and community events. I think it cost about £15m to build the arena and the University received a tonne of money from the Olympic legacy fund as well as many other trusts and fundraising schemes for it.  

the ice rink/arena size planned would be too small for an ice hockey team. A team would be great there but brent wont build a decent one to cash in on this, and ice skating shows, or curling, or be a permanent home for raiders aswell as open for public use the rest of the time.

Solihull Barons, who are a Premier League Ice Hockey side have a capacity of 800. Didn't the current Ice Rink plans intend to have 1500 seats? For another comparison 2000 is the capacity of the home of Manchester Phoenix who won the league. 60m by 30m (the intended size) are probably acceptable dimensions for the league.

Just cut the crap with the Nandos, Cinema and everything else that Bretonside will provide for the city in a more logical location and instead focus on the area for sports and the community. Create ties with the University, all the cities sporting teams and apply for all the grants and trusts available.

if Brent builds a decent size ice arena it would pay for itself over the years in time as you could use it for many functions like i mentioned earlier 365 days a year and yes would win grants and funds from lottery and sport england etc.

As a side note solihull barons play in the premier league i was refering to the elite league which there would be no reason why a team in plymouth couldnt play in that within a number of years at any team would be popular with punters.

I see on pasoti that The eleventh hour has posted-

The 11th Hour wrote:

The Studio School was given the go ahead by the Department of Education today and will be located on the University of St Mark & St John's campus in Derriford, opening September 2015.

That studio school was going to cough up c. £3m (?) toward the anticipated £58m total and now it won't be.

The car park is still "unsold".

The iMax cinema is being gazumped by the Bretonside one.

The dominoes continue to topple.

Nobody, surely, in their right mind can still believe that HHP is actually going to happen.

It's time, and has been for quite a while, to seriously consider how we can get rid of Brent, get our land back and replace him with something that actually operates in the best interests of the city, the park and the club as opposed to the Brent Family pension fund.

Chemical Ali wrote:

I see on pasoti that The eleventh hour has posted-

The 11th Hour wrote:

The Studio School was given the go ahead by the Department of Education today and will be located on the University of St Mark & St John's campus in Derriford, opening September 2015.

Strange that so much faith was put in this by Brent.  It missed one funding round and has now lost out to a much more suitable fit for purpose bid from Marjons.  I wonder if Brent knew he was competing with the Uni for the location in what was a joint (?) bid.

On to Plan B for Brent.  At least all the retail units should be signed up by now.