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Angry

Angry

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptyWed Jun 03, 2020 5:58 pm

seadog wrote:
Oi Lickers, answer your email, there's a good chap.

he has several it will take some time im sure albino albino :pighug: :pighug:
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Elias

Elias

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptyTue Jun 09, 2020 11:10 pm

Which year?
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Tgwu



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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptyThu Jun 11, 2020 10:28 pm

EFL chiefs are working overtime to bring limited crowds back to Football League grounds as early as SEPTEMBER.

Worried clubs want to know when they can open their gates again and a working group has been assembled to push for a quick return.

Senior club officials and medical advisers are involved along with EFL staff.

The Government will ultimately decide on timings.

But there is now a growing move to let fans fill around 25 per cent of a stadium’s capacity next season.

But behind the scenes progress has been made in the knowledge that bringing in some revenue will help keep many clubs alive.

Some of the biggest teams at lower-division level are lobbying for an answer before they set next season’s budgets.

A decision would be particularly helpful for clubs in League Two, giving them guaranteed revenue as they generally get lower attendances.

League One is a mixture of large and small clubs, but a quarter of gate money would still go a long way.

The snag will come in the Championship, where many clubs have large fanbases and choosing who to let in is certain to spark rows.

Premier League bosses want supporters back too, but they have television deals to keep them afloat financially until the coronavirus crisis ends.

Barrow will be back in the EFL for the first time in 48 years on Monday when a vote confirms them as National League champions.

Standings will be decided on a points-per-game basis, with the second promotion slot settled by play-offs.

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POI

POI

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptyThu Jun 11, 2020 10:38 pm

How are they going to social distance fans of clubs in the lower leagues which still have terracing?

Doable in all seater grounds, but people aren't going to keep their distance, say if a group of fans go together, have a few pre-match beers then their team score at a lower league club which only has terracing - what are they going to do? social distancing hugging?

Could section off areas of terracing I suppose. Oh I don't know. I'm going for a lay down, naked!


Last edited by POI on Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rickler

Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptyFri Jun 12, 2020 1:46 am

It ain't the hugging that's going to get you...

It's the 'Singing'!

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No chanting allowed!



SEATTLE — Scientists studying tiny exhaled particles that could transmit the coronavirus say a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention decision to drop warnings against choral singing is dangerous, risking more “super-spreading events” such as a Washington state choir practice linked to two deaths.
The researchers say that the coronavirus can spread in respiratory aerosols, which may linger in the air for an hour or more, floating farther than the six feet commonly prescribed for social distancing. They say that choir members are particularly vulnerable to infection from airborne particles, because they exhale and inhale deeply to sing, often at close quarters in poorly ventilated rooms.

The CDC generally dismisses the potential for airborne transmission beyond six feet, although a study it published recently said the “act of singing” likely contributed to 53 of 61 people who attended a choir rehearsal in March getting sick, two of whom died of COVID-19. Since that incident north of Seattle, reports have surfaced of other outbreaks after choir performances, including one in Amsterdam that claimed four lives.

Without notice on its website May 23, the CDC altered guidance for reopening houses of worship, deleting a warning posted the previous day that said the act of singing may contribute to the transmission of COVID-19. The warning disappeared as President Trump deemed religious institutions essential, calling on governors to reopen them from coronavirus lockdowns.

“Removing that guidance is extremely dangerous and irresponsible,” said Jose Jimenez, a University of Colorado chemistry professor who studies aerosols, adding it “will put people at risk of additional super-spreading events and slow down the containment of the epidemic.”

Donald Milton, a University of Maryland bio-aerosol researcher, spoke during a May 5 webinar sponsored by multiple national music organizations — and since watched by more than 100,000 people — that stunned the choir world. Experts advised choirs and performing arts groups not to gather again to sing in person until a vaccine or treatment for COVID-19 becomes widely available, even if that takes two years or more.

“The CDC’s earlier recommendations were spot on, and I’m sorry to see that they’ve changed them,” Milton said in an interview. “This is very hazardous, and we really need to not be getting together to sing.”

The novel coronavirus surfaced only a little more than five months ago in Wuhan, China, therefore, some degree of uncertainty about the pathogen is to be expected, as scientists study its characteristics. But the conflicting advice from domestic and international health agencies is striking, creating confusion as the U.S. death toll continues rising above 100,000.

The White House, reported by the Washington Post as having directed the CDC to substitute approved guidance omitting the choir warning, declined comment. The CDC and the Department of Health and Human Services did not respond to interview requests.

Aerosols include tiny floating pieces of pollution that make up smog and dust particles visible wafting in rays of sunshine, said Shelly Miller, a University of Colorado professor of mechanical engineering. She said that a person coughing can throw 300,000 or more aerosols at speeds up to 60 mph, ranging from microscopic, at 0.7 microns, to the size of a grain of fine beach sand, at about 10 microns or more.

The novel coronavirus is about 0.1 microns in diameter — about 4 millionths of an inch, she said. Researchers don’t yet know how many pieces of the virus might be contained in an aerosol produced by a COVID-19 patient’s cough, but one study under peer review estimates that someone standing and speaking in a room could release up to 114 infectious doses an hour.

The CDC says the virus spreads mainly between people in close contact, within about six feet, the distance at which a sneeze flings heavy droplets. The CDC has adjusted its wording, and now says that while it may be possible to get COVID-19 by touching something that has the virus on it, and then touching one’s face, “this is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads.”

The World Health Organization said in a March 28 tweet that, “FACT: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is NOT airborne,” although officials have added that the virus can spread in the air during “aerosol generating procedures” such as intubation.

Dr. Benedetta Allegranzi, WHO technical lead of infection prevention and control, said in an email Sunday that despite theories based on lab simulations, “there is no evidence of transmission of the virus as an airborne pathogen.”

She said that so far, a group of more than 30 experts that reviews evidence with WHO weekly has “not judged the existing evidence sufficiently convincing to consider airborne transmission as having an important role in COVID-19 spread.”

But Lidia Morawska, an aerosol researcher in Australia, said WHO’s conclusions stem from decades-old dogma that held that droplets only travel an arm’s length in the air. “There’s absolutely no basis for the statements made by the WHO,” she said.

Researchers now know that larger, heavier droplets do tend to fall closer to where they’re exhaled, but tiny particles can remain airborne for some time, depending on the amount of air exchange from ventilation in a room, said Morawska, a Queensland University of Technology professor who directs the International Laboratory for Air Quality and Health.

Since the Los Angeles Times reported on the outbreak from the Skagit Valley Chorale’s March 10 rehearsal, other super-spreading events have come to light. Four people died of COVID-19 after a choir performance in Amsterdam on March 8, and two members of a church congregation in Calgary, Alberta, died of the disease after a March 15 gathering that included singing.

Choir outbreaks have been reported in Germany, England and South Korea. All but one of 44 participants in a choir seminar in Losenstein, Austria, the weekend of March 6 later tested positive for COVID-19, said Albert Bergsmann, St. Georgen choral society chairman.

“No one had symptoms during the weekend,” he said. “The danger was unfortunately just not foreseeable at that point.”

Members of the Skagit Valley choir believed that no one present had symptoms of illness, and they used hand sanitizer, brought their own music scores and refrained from hugs and handshakes. But the study conducted by a research team found that one singer did have symptoms and later tested positive for COVID-19.

Jimenez said it’s highly unlikely that the extensive spread of the virus at the rehearsal could have occurred only through close contact and touching surfaces.

“How can one sick person be in close proximity of all those people for enough time to infect them?” he asked. Explanations other than airborne transmission are improbable, “especially when it’s happening in choir after choir after choir,” he said.

In a commentary published May 1 in the scientific journal Risk Analysis, a research team said that aerosols deserved urgent consideration. “The weight of the available evidence warrants immediate attention to address the significance of aerosols and implications for public health protection,” concluded the team of researchers at Exponent Inc., a scientific consulting firm.

Amid the uncertainty, Chorus America and the American Choral Directors Assn. advise choir groups to rehearse and perform online for the foreseeable future, however unsatisfying that may be.

A coalition of musical and performing arts associations is raising more than $200,000 to hire two research teams to conduct independent studies on risks of aerosol transmission by singers, instrumentalists and actors.

“It seems pretty compelling that the evidence we have so far does tell us that the virus can be transmitted by aerosols,” said Mark Spede, Clemson University band program director, one of the project coordinators.

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green_fiend



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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptyFri Jun 12, 2020 6:55 am

There would likely be no away travel for supporters. If there are 92 clubs left, that could see (finger in the air) 60,000 people travelling across, north, south, east and west once a week. That's problematic.

Entering and alighting stadiums designed as they are with narrow turnstiles will be problematic. How do you safely get 4,000 people in and out? How do they use the toilets with a 15 minute window?

How do you steward compliance inside the ground? It's a different set of rules completely. Last season, the club failed repeatedly to ensure rules on standing were followed by sections of the crowd. That would be impossible.

Playing behind closed doors also brings its own financial issues. Streaming matches at a cost to supporters will see people hosting parties at home. That's an issue. Revenue from this won't match the normal revenue generated from a normal matchday. There will need to be regular testing of players and staff at great cost. Entire squads could end up quarantined and this would result in fixture lists being unfulfilled.

It's too problematic. It's too soon.

Perhaps aiming for January would be a wiser move. Remove all cup competitions and have a six month season.

Restart again August 2021.
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Czarcasm

Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptyFri Jun 12, 2020 7:23 am

So Argyle would be looking at just under 4,500 with 25% capacity. Spread out over the entire ground I reckon that with common sense that is easily doable. Particularly when you take into account a fair proposition of those people will obviously be from the same household - therefore they would be sat right next to each other.

Obviously no away fans. But if you utilise every part of every stand, plus the corporate areas, it is more than feasible. Clearly you’d have a planned exit strategy set up for leaving the ground, but again with common sense and sensible stewarding it’s possible.
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harvetheslayer

harvetheslayer

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptyFri Jun 12, 2020 7:32 am

If there was a way to stream all games home and away without it getting hacked to free streams than say a £5 a game on top of the 25% ground capacity would make up a lot of the defecit.
Surely can be done if ifollow do both
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green_fiend



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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptyFri Jun 12, 2020 7:47 am

How wide are the seats? A 2m radius is bigger than most people think. Classrooms have gone from 30 to 5 at my Mrs' school. That's not 25%. I've had to sort out work areas recently so my staff can return. 2m is actually a lot bigger than you can visualise.

A block is 500 I think. I'd be surprised if they could host 25%. One row used is perhaps 6 people. Every other row would need to be empty. I think we have 20 rows. You could maybe fit in 60 per block.

It's getting in and out that is the issue. No away fans would help.

Fan behaviour though would be a headache.
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Czarcasm

Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptyFri Jun 12, 2020 7:55 am

green_fiend wrote:
How wide are the seats? A 2m radius is bigger than most people think. Classrooms have gone from 30 to 5 at my Mrs' school. That's not 25%. I've had to sort out work areas recently so my staff can return. 2m is actually a lot bigger than you can visualise.

A block is 500 I think. I'd be surprised if they could host 25%. One row used is perhaps 6 people. Every other row would need to be empty. I think we have 20 rows. You could maybe fit in 60 per block.

It's getting in and out that is the issue. No away fans would help.

Fan behaviour though would be a headache.

What is key to getting up to 25% back in, is the ‘same household’ thing. Where you have two three or four people in a bunch, that helps massively with fitting in the numbers.

Anyway even if they couldn’t quite do 25%. 20% is better than 0%. Shorely?
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Czarcasm

Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptyFri Jun 12, 2020 8:03 am

Plus the latest government guidelines allow a person from a different household to interact normally with one other household. Although it seems this is only in a limited number of circumstances at the minute.


Last edited by Czarcasm on Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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Earwegoagain

Earwegoagain

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptyFri Jun 12, 2020 8:14 am

Shorely even in our bubbles we should be keeping a safe distance? Maybe they should be making downloading the track and trace app a condition of entering ground?
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Czarcasm

Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptyFri Jun 12, 2020 9:29 am

Earwegoagain wrote:
Shorely even in our bubbles we should be keeping a safe distance? Maybe they should be making downloading the track and trace app a condition of entering ground?

Apparently not. The latest rule changes permit, for example, girlfriend/boyfriend relationships that don't live in the same household are now able to have 'intimate' relations etc.

Good point about the track and trace though. Agree totally.

I've just had a quick look at the latest rules. It's a bit odd because I could come to your house and not be restricted to the two metre rule. But it doesn't say about being able to do this outside or away from the house though. scratch

LOL I've just looked again - I'd need to be living alone, or a single parent or the only adult in the house....to be able to come to your house and not have 2 metre restrictions. lol!
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Earwegoagain

Earwegoagain

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptyFri Jun 12, 2020 3:11 pm

If you extrapolate the track and trace idea then Shorely you could open up for say four thousand fans for first game, track and trace then next game let another two thousand in and so on. It would have to be flexible but there would be a risk.
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Earwegoagain

Earwegoagain

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptyFri Jun 12, 2020 4:07 pm

Czarcasm wrote:
Earwegoagain wrote:
Shorely even in our bubbles we should be keeping a safe distance? Maybe they should be making downloading the track and trace app a condition of entering ground?

Apparently not. The latest rule changes permit, for example, girlfriend/boyfriend relationships that don't live in the same household are now able to have 'intimate' relations etc.

Good point about the track and trace though. Agree totally.

I've just had a quick look at the latest rules. It's a bit odd because I could come to your house and not be restricted to the two metre rule. But it doesn't say about being able to do this outside or away from the house though. scratch

LOL I've just looked again - I'd need to be living alone, or a single parent or the only adult in the house....to be able to come to your house and not have 2 metre restrictions. lol!

It's all to confusing I've just heard that my youngest bhey who lives at home still is having his girlfriend over tomorrow night to "bubble him", the rules as I understand it are that he's allowed to shag but I can't shake her hand? I'm not sure if I could shag her? If I did would I have to self isolate from the missus?
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Les Miserable

Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptyFri Jun 12, 2020 5:06 pm

Earwegoagain wrote:
Czarcasm wrote:
Earwegoagain wrote:
Shorely even in our bubbles we should be keeping a safe distance? Maybe they should be making downloading the track and trace app a condition of entering ground?

Apparently not. The latest rule changes permit, for example, girlfriend/boyfriend relationships that don't live in the same household are now able to have 'intimate' relations etc.

Good point about the track and trace though. Agree totally.

I've just had a quick look at the latest rules. It's a bit odd because I could come to your house and not be restricted to the two metre rule. But it doesn't say about being able to do this outside or away from the house though. scratch

LOL I've just looked again - I'd need to be living alone, or a single parent or the only adult in the house....to be able to come to your house and not have 2 metre restrictions. lol!

It's all to confusing I've just heard that my youngest bhey who lives at home still is having his girlfriend over tomorrow night to "bubble him", the rules as I understand it are that he's allowed to shag but I can't shake her hand? I'm not sure if I could shag her? If I did would I have to self isolate from the missus?

cheers
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Czarcasm

Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptySat Jun 13, 2020 1:26 pm

Earwegoagain wrote:
Czarcasm wrote:
Earwegoagain wrote:
Shorely even in our bubbles we should be keeping a safe distance? Maybe they should be making downloading the track and trace app a condition of entering ground?

Apparently not. The latest rule changes permit, for example, girlfriend/boyfriend relationships that don't live in the same household are now able to have 'intimate' relations etc.

Good point about the track and trace though. Agree totally.

I've just had a quick look at the latest rules. It's a bit odd because I could come to your house and not be restricted to the two metre rule. But it doesn't say about being able to do this outside or away from the house though. scratch

LOL I've just looked again - I'd need to be living alone, or a single parent or the only adult in the house....to be able to come to your house and not have 2 metre restrictions. lol!

It's all to confusing I've just heard that my youngest bhey who lives at home still is having his girlfriend over tomorrow night to "bubble him", the rules as I understand it are that he's allowed to shag but I can't shake her hand? I'm not sure if I could shag her? If I did would I have to self isolate from the missus?

lol!
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Freathy

Freathy

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptySat Jun 13, 2020 1:35 pm

Covid free New Zealand rugby season has kicked off with no social distancing and packed stadiums. If only we had competent government instead of Bungling Bozo and his bunch of buffoons.
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harvetheslayer

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptySat Jun 13, 2020 2:18 pm

Freathy wrote:
Covid free New Zealand rugby season has kicked off with no social distancing and packed stadiums.  If only we had competent government instead of Bungling Bozo and his bunch of buffoons.

Thumbs
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Rickler

Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptySat Jun 13, 2020 6:11 pm

Freathy wrote:
Covid free New Zealand rugby season has kicked off with no social distancing and packed stadiums.  If only we had competent government instead of Bungling Bozo and his bunch of buffoons.

The government is only half to blame. The people themselves are the other half. They refuse to follow the guidelines. The situation is the same in the USA. The rules only apply to other people.
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sufferedsince 68

sufferedsince 68

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptySun Jun 14, 2020 11:01 am

Just let football fans back in the ground ffs! like when you step outside your door life's a risk, i would be happy to go.
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Angry

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptySun Jun 14, 2020 12:43 pm

wear a mask in the grounds i say.
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Earwegoagain

Earwegoagain

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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptySun Jun 14, 2020 12:48 pm

Wear a mask, track and trace and make sure everybody knows the risks so they can make an informed decision.
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Tgwu



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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptySun Jun 14, 2020 4:07 pm

Angry wrote:
wear a mask in the grounds i say.

I have a gas mask from my military days
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Grovehill



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PostSubject: Re: Fans back in October?   Fans back in October? - Page 2 EmptySun Jun 14, 2020 4:26 pm

Earwegoagain wrote:
Wear a mask, track and trace and make sure everybody knows the risks so they can make an informed decision.


Track & Trace!

"You have been confirmed as having the Covid 19 virus. Please tell us your close contacts over the last 7 days"

"Well, 3 other people in my household, 2 work colleagues, I can give your their names and phone numbers. Oh, and about 5000 total strangers when I went to Bristol for the Rovers match"

Lives matter, football doesn't
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