The Mankover all action Thread.

Although I think the costs of a proper joined up rebuild would be closer to £12mill, all of the extra things like GTs, club shop, changing rooms, control box extra toilet block etc could have been accommodated within the new structure - maybe could have clawed back some of the outlay and overcome the issues we will now have, but hayho its done now.

It's difficult to put a definitive cost on it because you can add or subtract millions of £££'s depending on capacity and the level of spec you go for.

My view is that a complete new build with small capacity in the basic style of the horseshoe with minimal facilities wouldn't have been a million miles from what we'll end up paying for the current build.

What we've ended up with is considerably better conferencing and corporate facilities, but with an unpalatable trade off in keeping the old structure and an unsatisfactory roofing effort.

What is frustrating, and borne out from Halletts decision to up the spec, is that if he'd been on board two or three years earlier the whole thing would have been done properly instead of being too far down the road of the Brent Mankover.

Earwegoagain wrote:

Rickler wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

It’s not ridiculous at all.

green_genie wrote:

A completely new stand done properly so the morlocks got permanent toilets and a concourse rather than trek around to mobile wagons would have had to bore brunt of the muck away costs to bring down to level of horseshoe, otherwisenew build wouldn't have been that much different c1osts.  Jimmy knew what he was doing trying to get NCP underground car park behind to share costs. Luckily Rapson saw him off at the pass.

Yes it is. With all due respect...  It's as bad as thinking the earth is flat. You're in Harvetheslayer land. It is a complete nonsense to think that you could get a NEW better stand for the same price.  If it was possible why wouldn't Argyle have done it?  You think the board went with the refurb just to piss ATD off?

Face reality!

I think the current board went with it because Brent had already started it. I personally think for not much more money we could have had a new shiny stadium although I do think it would have ended up being trimmed and ended up smaller, which is easier to do with a new build. Working with existing ageing structures throws up all sorts of problems during builds and it's easy to think your half way there when you are nowhere near a finish which has been amply demonstrated by time Bungo and co have taken to do this job. A good comparison would be doing a Barn conversion vs knocking it down and building a new house, the end product will be completely different but the costs almost identical.

So thats 2 people that know what they are talking about, that have said that a new build that probably would not cost much not be that much more than the lash up that we ended up with.

To get some perspective I visited The Wave at Bristol recently a brand new waveool that you can surf, they crowd funded £24m bought a feck off bit of land on Bristol outskirts designed, developed and built a wave pool with cafe, shop and they are now working on parking. This is a very new technology they are using yet they seem to have better value for money than we do with the mankover.

My three family male Amigos, went to the ladies game, would not change their seats for the grandstand from their lyndhurst stand seats.

Swale still overflowing, it alright the mighty FOCP has it in hand.

Quote

If you have walked through Zoo Field recently, you can see the swale has overflowed at its lower end and the grass path has become very muddy. Also, be aware that when full, it can be difficult to see the water as it is muddy too. I will be representing the situation to Plymouth City Council on behalf of the Friends Group.

More about Barn Park drainage plan

Quote
The wider drainage scheme

Thank you to all who commented on the proposed response from the Friends Group about the drainage scheme at Barn Park. Everyone was concerned about the additional maintenance that would be needed to keep new planting belts in good shape, especially as the scheme depends on this. And everyone could see that three ponds would not be as good for people’s enjoyment as a single large pond or lake. On balance, most felt we should press now for the latter and I have sent this paper to PCC’s project manager for the park. It looks like nothing can happen until after the General Election but having a group view now means we will be ready to continue the process soon afterwards.

Andrew Young
Chair

Just to clarify I said a new build would be comparable if the costs of levelling the ground were offset by someone else as per JBs NCP plan.

Now we're stuck with the mankover the very least Bungo and Hallett could do is spend a bit of cash refurbishing the horseshoe seats back to original colour.
Dont even need to replace there are very professional compounds that take off the faded surface and leave the original colour exposed.
Get the apprentices to do as in the old days

harvetheslayer wrote:

Now we're stuck with the mankover the very least Bungo and Hallett could do is spend a bit of cash refurbishing the horseshoe seats back to original colour.
Dont even need to replace there are very professional compounds that take off the faded surface and leave the original colour exposed.
Get the apprentices to do as in the old days

Apart from ploughing dosh into the team. I'd rather any spare cash go on doing something with Roberto's garden, a players tunnel, or a Jumbotron. FFS.

Hugh Watt wrote:

It’s not ridiculous at all.

green_genie wrote:

A completely new stand done properly so the morlocks got permanent toilets and a concourse rather than trek around to mobile wagons would have had to bore brunt of the muck away costs to bring down to level of horseshoe, otherwisenew build wouldn't have been that much different c1osts.  Jimmy knew what he was doing trying to get NCP underground car park behind to share costs. Luckily Rapson saw him off at the pass.

Thanks Hugh, i've been a Brickie for forty years so not a stanger to costs of new build or refurbs, Brent would never have finshed the Mankover in a million years so thanks to Simon Hallet for doing the best he could. However for the money spent on a stand with half a roof and where you cant see both goals, i am conviced a new grandstand could have been built from scratch for roughly the same money.

Yep, the opportunity was well and truly missed to build something resembling a modern stand. Could have excavated the old Mayflower terracing and surrounding area right back and built a proper stand on the same ground level as the horseshoe. That's what should have been done. As it is we've still got the awful looking configuration of an undersized shed (AKA the top tier) built on top of a slope that forms the lower tier. The whole thing really is crap.

Totally agree Freathers, the usual lack of creative vision will come back to bite PAFC on the arse.

Thread on animal farm criticising the seats in upper tier with 3 of 8 posts so far saying they're clearly smaller than what went before (maybe the design)

Way to go Bungo top performance and seeing you in your words "made the decision" to put useless seats in the BPE of Grandstand than you can take the credit for the further criticism thats clearly inbound

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Also hearing that already there's gripes about a lack of space in the corridors at the back of the stand. Not even a full stand either.

Yea Man wrote:

Also hearing that already there's gripes about a lack of space in the corridors at the back of the stand. Not even a full stand either.

Seriously we're like a hick town in Plymouth. Every sodding thing down here is Harry Billy shight from top to bottom

Also heard from a friend in the GS today. The general consensus is that down below is a massive improvement, i,e the conferencing facilities - it's changed beyond all recognition and is top drawer stuff. Upstairs, however, it's just a case of a lick of paint and some new seats.

Apart from putting in fewer seats to create more space for supporters sitting down, there's not much that could have been done about the upper GS. Still, only 30 more years to go and perhaps we can have have a proper GS!

harvetheslayer wrote:

Yea Man wrote:

Also hearing that already there's gripes about a lack of space in the corridors at the back of the stand. Not even a full stand either.

Seriously we're like a hick town in Plymouth. Every sodding thing down here is Harry Billy shight from top to bottom

Wot even the Barcode?

harvetheslayer wrote:

Now we're stuck with the mankover the very least Bungo and Hallett could do is spend a bit of cash refurbishing the horseshoe seats back to original colour.
Dont even need to replace there are very professional compounds that take off the faded surface and leave the original colour exposed.
Get the apprentices to do as in the old days

the stands are due for maintaince work in the near future as they are pushing 20 so things like the seats could be done then imo.

Yea Man wrote:

Also hearing that already there's gripes about a lack of space in the corridors at the back of the stand. Not even a full stand either.

Heard the same from someone who travels with us that has an ST there. No room in the concourse. Really griping about it

Silence all of you. The man who has “ done hundreds of corporate/boardroom in his time has spoken.

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It’s all good.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Yea Man wrote:

Also hearing that already there's gripes about a lack of space in the corridors at the back of the stand. Not even a full stand either.

Heard the same from someone who travels with us that has an ST there. No room in the concourse. Really griping about it

Surely it has to be a minimum width to meet safety standards ?? They cant have cocked that up surely

harvetheslayer wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

Yea Man wrote:

Also hearing that already there's gripes about a lack of space in the corridors at the back of the stand. Not even a full stand either.

Heard the same from someone who travels with us that has an ST there. No room in the concourse. Really griping about it

Surely it has to be a minimum width to meet safety standards ??  They cant have cocked that up surely

Definitely not or they wouldn't have had safety certificate for womens game.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Silence all of you. The man who has “ done hundreds of corporate/boardroom in his time has spoken.

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It’s all good.

Good to see Cornwalls top Janner is fully supportive.

Good to see we have top notch hospitality in the feckin footballing basement!

TV crews parked in the Ice shed area and running cables down towards the GT bar

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

Silence all of you. The man who has “ done hundreds of corporate/boardroom in his time has spoken.

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It’s all good.

Good to see Cornwalls top Janner is fully supportive.

Thought he would be, anything free and corporate for Plymouths biggest asslicker desperatly trying to be someone.