AFC Wimbledon JPT thread.

Elias wrote:

Forgot to add great win over the treehugging protest phoney club. Lovely jubbly

There's a lot to be said for the Pulis/Holloway and Sheridan/Adams thing. Just as there is for the quality of the remaining players that Adams inherited from Sheridan in comparison to those Sheridan inherited from Fletcher.

It goes far deeper than that though. For all that automatic promotion was in sight for much of last season or a play-off spot probable until we tailed off and scraped into that last, precious 7th position last season never once felt like it was a promotion season. Every time the notion briefly raised its head we lost. We never really gained any momentum. Our eventual defeat by Wycombe, disappointing though it was, was always on the cards. This season, albeit early days yet, already feels very different. We're not just behind the pacesetters; we are a pacesetter. We're not only winning at home; we're winning away too. It isn't only Reuben Reid who's scoring the goals; everybody seems to be chipping in. We haven't been forced to sell a player that we want to keep; Reuben is not this season's Hourihane. It isn't all over as soon as we concede the first goal.

I'm almost optimistic that we might at last have thrown the shackles off and have a team that could swagger its way out of the division.

And not before time.

AstiSpumante wrote:

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

I think it would have been nigh on impossible to follow Fletchers tenure immediately with the kind of players/style that Adams has brought to the club. We needed solidity at the back to stave off a relegation nightmare. Shez gave us that. Adams had moved us on from an attacking perspective foreshore. Long may that continue.

That's fair - to an extent. Sheridan did keep us up - eternally grateful for that....though with the caveat that we had to rely on other results to achieve survival, rather than ensuring it ourselves.

The following season he took us safely to mid-table by making us hard to beat (a la Pulis) but last season he had clearly run out of the few ideas he had in the first place. Average manager; thanks but no thanks.

It suits some agendas to put all problems on the current board and all success on the manager. The truth is more grey than some people on this board would like.

No more from me on the previous set-up.....just happy to see us winning, especially showing the nuts to come back from 2 down away from home.

If our manager gets poached, it'll be because we've been promoted. I can live with that.

That oft spouted statement always makes me smile. It could be said that every team relies on the results of others to "achieve" anything, be it survival, mid table mediocrity, promotion or league champions.

Exactly. Brian Clough used to go ballistic when it was suggested that Derby won the title by default in 1972 because Leeds lost at Wolves in their last game. Absolute bloody twisted thinking he said, and he was right. Argyle stayed up because Sheridan saw that the team wasn't good enough and took swift action to address the issue by bringing people like Reid, Cox, Bryan and Banton resulting in getting 28 points from 17 games compared to 24 from the previous 29.Enough said, end of story.

Greenskin wrote:

AstiSpumante wrote:

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

I think it would have been nigh on impossible to follow Fletchers tenure immediately with the kind of players/style that Adams has brought to the club. We needed solidity at the back to stave off a relegation nightmare. Shez gave us that. Adams had moved us on from an attacking perspective foreshore. Long may that continue.

That's fair - to an extent. Sheridan did keep us up - eternally grateful for that....though with the caveat that we had to rely on other results to achieve survival, rather than ensuring it ourselves.

The following season he took us safely to mid-table by making us hard to beat (a la Pulis) but last season he had clearly run out of the few ideas he had in the first place. Average manager; thanks but no thanks.

It suits some agendas to put all problems on the current board and all success on the manager. The truth is more grey than some people on this board would like.

No more from me on the previous set-up.....just happy to see us winning, especially showing the nuts to come back from 2 down away from home.

If our manager gets poached, it'll be because we've been promoted. I can live with that.

That oft spouted statement always makes me smile. It could be said that every team relies on the results of others to "achieve" anything, be it survival, mid table mediocrity, promotion or league champions.

Exactly. Brian Clough used to go ballistic when it was suggested that Derby won the title by default in 1972 because Leeds lost at Wolves in their last game. Absolute bloody twisted thinking he said, and he was right. Argyle stayed up because Sheridan saw that the team wasn't good enough and took swift action to address the issue by bringing people like Reid, Cox, Bryan and Banton resulting in getting 28 points from 17 games compared to 24 from the previous 29.Enough said, end of story.

This, exactly.

Why does it discredit Sheridan that Barnet and Aldershot didn't get as many points as us? We got enough points. They didn't. When we got those points is irrelevant.

AstiSpumante wrote:

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

I think it would have been nigh on impossible to follow Fletchers tenure immediately with the kind of players/style that Adams has brought to the club. We needed solidity at the back to stave off a relegation nightmare. Shez gave us that. Adams had moved us on from an attacking perspective foreshore. Long may that continue.

That's fair - to an extent. Sheridan did keep us up - eternally grateful for that....though with the caveat that we had to rely on other results to achieve survival, rather than ensuring it ourselves.

The following season he took us safely to mid-table by making us hard to beat (a la Pulis) but last season he had clearly run out of the few ideas he had in the first place. Average manager; thanks but no thanks.

It suits some agendas to put all problems on the current board and all success on the manager. The truth is more grey than some people on this board would like.

No more from me on the previous set-up.....just happy to see us winning, especially showing the nuts to come back from 2 down away from home.

If our manager gets poached, it'll be because we've been promoted. I can live with that.

That oft spouted statement always makes me smile. It could be said that every team relies on the results of others to "achieve" anything, be it survival, mid table mediocrity, promotion or league champions.

Nail, head...........great win btw.

What everybody (who secretly loves Brent) fails to factor into the Sheridan bash is the lack of support from board and chairman, we were going great guns up to Crimbo and building some momentum then off go the decent loanees not to be replaced until end of Jan and then with lesser players. This is when Shez decided he'd had enough of austerity Argyle and who the feck could blame him?

Fair points, all of you, who say that we earned survival under Sheridan by amassing enough points previously in 12/13 to render the last two defeats ultimately irrelevant but I still say we got away with it, rather than convinced when it really mattered. We wet-farted to survival...a bit like we did to 10th the following season after being in the play-off places....and crawled into 7th last season, only to capitulate at the first play-off hurdle.

I don't love Brent, I didn't love Sheridan...think they are both, well, average. Derek Adams might just be something a bit special. Hoping so.

The only thing creditworthy that can be attributed to Brent is his and the Boards appointment of Shez and Adams.

Brent's initial involvement at Argyle was based 100% around his belief that he could make a property developing killing for Akkeron, whilst palming PAFC off with the absolute minimum - a ministand of less than 5000 capacity. Boxing in the ministand with a minimum capacity ice rink was the next Brent master plan. The deliverance of this would open up the door to big money making development at Millbay.

Crucially for the future prosperity of Argyle, he flatlined spectacularly.

I just wish he'd drop the 'football fan' charade and actively look to exit, now that his plans are stone dead.

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

I think it would have been nigh on impossible to follow Fletchers tenure immediately with the kind of players/style that Adams has brought to the club. We needed solidity at the back to stave off a relegation nightmare. Shez gave us that. Adams had moved us on from an attacking perspective foreshore. Long may that continue.

That's fair - to an extent. Sheridan did keep us up - eternally grateful for that....though with the caveat that we had to rely on other results to achieve survival, rather than ensuring it ourselves.The following season he took us safely to mid-table by making us hard to beat (a la Pulis) but last season he had clearly run out of the few ideas he had in the first place. Average manager; thanks but no thanks.

It suits some agendas to put all problems on the current board and all success on the manager. The truth is more grey than some people on this board would like.

No more from me on the previous set-up.....just happy to see us winning, especially showing the nuts to come back from 2 down away from home.

If our manager gets poached, it'll be because we've been promoted. I can live with that.

One of the strangest comments I've ever seen?
So Chelsea won the title because Man C, Manure, Arsenil didn't get enough points
Shrews and Burton went up because we didn't get enough points
Tranmere went down because other clubs got more points
....

I don't ever think I've seen us control a ball from a throw in before in over 30 years. WTF!!

tigertony wrote:

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

I think it would have been nigh on impossible to follow Fletchers tenure immediately with the kind of players/style that Adams has brought to the club. We needed solidity at the back to stave off a relegation nightmare. Shez gave us that. Adams had moved us on from an attacking perspective foreshore. Long may that continue.

That's fair - to an extent. Sheridan did keep us up - eternally grateful for that....though with the caveat that we had to rely on other results to achieve survival, rather than ensuring it ourselves.The following season he took us safely to mid-table by making us hard to beat (a la Pulis) but last season he had clearly run out of the few ideas he had in the first place. Average manager; thanks but no thanks.

It suits some agendas to put all problems on the current board and all success on the manager. The truth is more grey than some people on this board would like.

No more from me on the previous set-up.....just happy to see us winning, especially showing the nuts to come back from 2 down away from home.

If our manager gets poached, it'll be because we've been promoted. I can live with that.

One of the strangest comments I've ever seen?
So Chelsea won the title because Man C, Manure, Arsenil didn't get enough points
Shrews and Burton went up because we didn't get enough points
Tranmere went down because other clubs got more points
....

Golly gosh.....I never thought of it like that before........ ......

Even yesterday when Mr President walked into the directors lounge at Wimbledon nobody was talking to him.
He is despised by most.

He WALKED in? I thought he was superman and would have flown in with his cape on

Did he have his henchmen with him or were they on the M3?

tigertony wrote:

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

I think it would have been nigh on impossible to follow Fletchers tenure immediately with the kind of players/style that Adams has brought to the club. We needed solidity at the back to stave off a relegation nightmare. Shez gave us that. Adams had moved us on from an attacking perspective foreshore. Long may that continue.

That's fair - to an extent. Sheridan did keep us up - eternally grateful for that....though with the caveat that we had to rely on other results to achieve survival, rather than ensuring it ourselves.The following season he took us safely to mid-table by making us hard to beat (a la Pulis) but last season he had clearly run out of the few ideas he had in the first place. Average manager; thanks but no thanks.

It suits some agendas to put all problems on the current board and all success on the manager. The truth is more grey than some people on this board would like.

No more from me on the previous set-up.....just happy to see us winning, especially showing the nuts to come back from 2 down away from home.

If our manager gets poached, it'll be because we've been promoted. I can live with that.

One of the strangest comments I've ever seen?
So Chelsea won the title because Man C, Manure, Arsenil didn't get enough points
Shrews and Burton went up because we didn't get enough points
Tranmere went down because other clubs got more points
....

One of the strangest comments you've ever seen? You must have lived a sheltered life for a tiger.

I think I accepted above that what I said was too strong and clarified how I still think it applied somewhat to how we finished that season.....and I don't think it detracts from the larger point that we were ultimately going nowhere under Sheridan, who was/is a distinctly average manager.

zyph wrote:

tigertony wrote:

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

I think it would have been nigh on impossible to follow Fletchers tenure immediately with the kind of players/style that Adams has brought to the club. We needed solidity at the back to stave off a relegation nightmare. Shez gave us that. Adams had moved us on from an attacking perspective foreshore. Long may that continue.

That's fair - to an extent. Sheridan did keep us up - eternally grateful for that....though with the caveat that we had to rely on other results to achieve survival, rather than ensuring it ourselves.The following season he took us safely to mid-table by making us hard to beat (a la Pulis) but last season he had clearly run out of the few ideas he had in the first place. Average manager; thanks but no thanks.

It suits some agendas to put all problems on the current board and all success on the manager. The truth is more grey than some people on this board would like.

No more from me on the previous set-up.....just happy to see us winning, especially showing the nuts to come back from 2 down away from home.

If our manager gets poached, it'll be because we've been promoted. I can live with that.

One of the strangest comments I've ever seen?
So Chelsea won the title because Man C, Manure, Arsenil didn't get enough points
Shrews and Burton went up because we didn't get enough points
Tranmere went down because other clubs got more points
....

Golly gosh.....I never thought of it like that before........ ......

Refer the honourable gentleman to the answer previously given

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

It suits some agendas to put all problems on the current board and all success on the manager. The truth is more grey than some people on this board would like.

Actually Innocent, in the early days of this forum when it could be considered far more"anti Board" than it is now, it officially welcomed Brent as the new chairman. It even organised a Q and A meet the wierdos night with the chairman. So let's get that straight.
But that was before he proved to be what he is to many football fans and the city, through it's elected council, namely a slippery speculator unable or unwilling to deliver a newspaper. "There's a deal to be done here" are his own wrds. And that's before we talk about creepy PR man Londonner Jones and his nefarious ways unbecoming of an Argyle board member, or the return of Wrathall which only makes peoples' noses twitch as to whether there was an informal long term pre-pack, after all.  

Any success on the pitch this year all of a sudden is so obviously down to the very pleasant Adams, and his excellent new players. Anyone with a modicum of sense can see that.

Hey leave off the fine gentleman, Porky told us he wasn't a developer lets not pick at scabs shall we? Brent has said himself he only spends a day or so on Argyle every week, my guess is that's attending the match, we are so lucky.

Sir John Hawkins wrote:

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

It suits some agendas to put all problems on the current board and all success on the manager. The truth is more grey than some people on this board would like.

Actually Innocent, in the early days of this forum when it could be considered far more"anti Board" than it is now, it officially welcomed Brent as the new chairman. It even organised a Q and A meet the wierdos night with the chairman. So let's get that straight.
But that was before he proved to be what he is to many football fans and the city, through it's elected council, namely a slippery speculator unable or unwilling to deliver a newspaper. "There's a deal to be done here" are his own wrds. And that's before we talk about creepy PR man Londonner Jones and his nefarious ways unbecoming of an Argyle board member, or the return of Wrathall which only makes peoples' noses twitch as to whether there was an informal long term pre-pack, after all.  

Any success on the pitch this year all of a sudden is so obviously down to the very pleasant Adams, and his excellent new players. Anyone with a modicum of sense can see that.

Essentially, I don't disagree with any of your analysis of the fabric of Brent's administration. I am no apologist for how they have gone about things and I wish we had someone with real clout in charge. I vociferously opposed the mini-stand plans on Pasoti (mainly due to the crushing limitations they would have placed on future expansion) and, like you, I think the return of Wrathall stank. Jones has been a dreadful disappointment.

Yet, at times, ATD can be as polemic as the brown-nosing Pasoti. If you think Sheridan was a good manager, you have to give credit to the board for appointing him; ditto Adams. That's all I'm saying.

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

tigertony wrote:

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

I think it would have been nigh on impossible to follow Fletchers tenure immediately with the kind of players/style that Adams has brought to the club. We needed solidity at the back to stave off a relegation nightmare. Shez gave us that. Adams had moved us on from an attacking perspective foreshore. Long may that continue.

That's fair - to an extent. Sheridan did keep us up - eternally grateful for that....though with the caveat that we had to rely on other results to achieve survival, rather than ensuring it ourselves.The following season he took us safely to mid-table by making us hard to beat (a la Pulis) but last season he had clearly run out of the few ideas he had in the first place. Average manager; thanks but no thanks.

It suits some agendas to put all problems on the current board and all success on the manager. The truth is more grey than some people on this board would like.

No more from me on the previous set-up.....just happy to see us winning, especially showing the nuts to come back from 2 down away from home.

If our manager gets poached, it'll be because we've been promoted. I can live with that.

One of the strangest comments I've ever seen?
So Chelsea won the title because Man C, Manure, Arsenil didn't get enough points
Shrews and Burton went up because we didn't get enough points
Tranmere went down because other clubs got more points
....

One of the strangest comments you've ever seen? You must have lived a sheltered life for a tiger.

I think I accepted above that what I said was too strong and clarified how I still think it applied somewhat to how we finished that season.....and I don't think it detracts from the larger point that we were ultimately going nowhere under Sheridan, who was/is a distinctly average manager.

I'm an endangered specie!!!!
We are getting some rave reviews on the Wimbledon forums. WTF has happened in under 5 months? Bewildering.

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Sir John Hawkins wrote:

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

It suits some agendas to put all problems on the current board and all success on the manager. The truth is more grey than some people on this board would like.

Actually Innocent, in the early days of this forum when it could be considered far more"anti Board" than it is now, it officially welcomed Brent as the new chairman. It even organised a Q and A meet the wierdos night with the chairman. So let's get that straight.
But that was before he proved to be what he is to many football fans and the city, through it's elected council, namely a slippery speculator unable or unwilling to deliver a newspaper. "There's a deal to be done here" are his own wrds. And that's before we talk about creepy PR man Londonner Jones and his nefarious ways unbecoming of an Argyle board member, or the return of Wrathall which only makes peoples' noses twitch as to whether there was an informal long term pre-pack, after all.  

Any success on the pitch this year all of a sudden is so obviously down to the very pleasant Adams, and his excellent new players. Anyone with a modicum of sense can see that.

Essentially, I don't disagree with any of your analysis of the fabric of Brent's administration. I am no apologist for how they have gone about things and I wish we had someone with real clout in charge. I vociferously opposed the mini-stand plans on Pasoti (mainly due to the crushing limitations they would have placed on future expansion) and, like you, I think the return of Wrathall stank. Jones has been a dreadful disappointment.

Yet, at times, ATD can be as polemic as the brown-nosing Pasoti. If you think Sheridan was a good manager, you have to give credit to the board for appointing him; ditto Adams. That's all I'm saying.

I give credit to the board for signing both managers and will heap shit on them for not backing Shez last january, does it not make you wonder why Shez would rather be UN employed than work for Argyle? One of the main reasons he left was Brent's goon squad (who share the directors box with him don't you know) attacking him on social media. I am certain that Brent knew that was going on and who was behind it to boot. Onwards to Adams, from what we see a great manager who has got lucky in that the four or so players he has signed are decent quality for this league. He has also mentioned the constraints of budget at least a dozen times since he's been here. Now getting promoted from this shit pit of a league with a squad that's paper thin is not impossible but it certainly isn't easy. We have also been in this division ever since Brent rocked up at HP, he's wasted four years trying to be a developer and another not backing a manager who would have got us out of here with the wages of a couple of loanees, his track record at Argyle is the worst in the history of chairmen of the club and that's saying something! If he doesn't deserve shit I don't know who does.

Iggy - I don't disagree with you about this board's lack of financial backing....both for the managers and toward the infrastructure of the club. I would like to see a different administration in place - one with clout and ambition. Hopefully, that will happen in time.

Sheridan's lack of backing might well have contributed to his departure but where I disagree with you is that he would have got us promoted if he was given wages for a couple of loanees. I just don't think he was very good and we were going nowhere under him. As for attacks on social media - come on, do you really think that was going to get under his skin to such an extent? Brent's yes-men might be vile but they're not that effective.

I'm confident that if we remain in the top 5/6 and the gates hover around 9 - 10K then JB will release some more cash for January. I reckon that Del Bhoy can be quite assertive when needed. Similarly if we are going well in Jan with a good chance of promotion then I'm sure Del Bhoy will start contract talks - lets hope so. In the meantime it remains a very strange feeling being 2nd with a very good start to the season. Bleedy odd?

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Iggy - I don't disagree with you about this board's lack of financial backing....both for the managers and toward the infrastructure of the club. I would like to see a different administration in place - one with clout and ambition. Hopefully, that will happen in time.

Sheridan's lack of backing might well have contributed to his departure but where I disagree with you is that he would have got us promoted if he was given wages for a couple of loanees. I just don't think he was very good and we were going nowhere under him. As for attacks on social media - come on, do you really think that was going to get under his skin to such an extent? Brent's yes-men might be vile but they're not that effective.

Czarcasm wrote:

The only thing creditworthy that can be attributed to Brent is his and the Boards appointment of Shez and Adams.

Brent's initial involvement at Argyle was based 100% around his belief that he could make a property developing killing for Akkeron, whilst palming PAFC off with the absolute minimum - a ministand of less than 5000 capacity. Boxing in the ministand with a minimum capacity ice rink was the next Brent master plan. The deliverance of this would open up the door to big money making development at Millbay.

Crucially for the future prosperity of Argyle, he flatlined spectacularly.

I just wish he'd drop the 'football fan' charade and actively look to exit, now that his plans are stone dead.

ISn't he already actively looking to exit but just can't get any one to cough the unrealistic money he wants.