Brexit - Leave or Remain poll

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Well.... Cameron won that one....

I'm not so sure. Farage didn't do himself favours when he got a bit tetchy with that black girls constant interruption. When a certain 'Imriel Morgan' accused him of fomenting discrimination against blacks, he should have made it more clear that by wanting to engage more closely with skilled labour from commonwealth nations like India and those in Africa, he'd certainly get more blacks from those countries than from the predominantly white population of Romania and Bulgaria.

As for Cameron, you surely heard the audience booing him when he refused to say how much net migration would fall as a result of his renegotiation with the EU? I kinda wondered if was ever going to get a round of applause. Nice touch by ITV to show him shaking hands with members of the audience at the end.

Not so much in that particular programme, but a non-biased person would surely notice that the dice has been loaded very much in favour of the remains, after all, it's only Andrew Neil who seems to have been let off the leash to interrogates both sides so earnestly.

A link from March.

Hugh Midde wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Well.... Cameron won that one....

I'm not so sure. Farage didn't do himself favours when he got a bit tetchy with that black girls constant interruption. When a certain 'Imriel Morgan' accused him of fomenting discrimination against blacks, he should have made it more clear that by wanting to engage more closely with skilled labour from commonwealth nations like India and those in Africa, he'd certainly get more blacks from those countries than from the predominantly white population of Romania and Bulgaria.

As for Cameron, you surely heard the audience booing him when he refused to say how much net migration would fall as a result of his renegotiation with the EU? I kinda wondered if was ever going to get a round of applause. Nice touch by ITV to show him shaking hands with members of the audience at the end.

Not so much in that particular programme, but a non-biased person would surely notice that the dice has been loaded very much in favour of the remains, after all, it's only Andrew Neil who seems to have been let off the leash to interrogates both sides so earnestly.    

There is a lot of chatter on facebook regarding the black woman who was giving Farage hassle. Apparently she is a a blogger and was invited on to the programme for that reason. She is being hammered on facebook too.

VillageGreen wrote:

Hugh Midde wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Well.... Cameron won that one....

I'm not so sure. Farage didn't do himself favours when he got a bit tetchy with that black girls constant interruption. When a certain 'Imriel Morgan' accused him of fomenting discrimination against blacks, he should have made it more clear that by wanting to engage more closely with skilled labour from commonwealth nations like India and those in Africa, he'd certainly get more blacks from those countries than from the predominantly white population of Romania and Bulgaria.

As for Cameron, you surely heard the audience booing him when he refused to say how much net migration would fall as a result of his renegotiation with the EU? I kinda wondered if was ever going to get a round of applause. Nice touch by ITV to show him shaking hands with members of the audience at the end.

Not so much in that particular programme, but a non-biased person would surely notice that the dice has been loaded very much in favour of the remains, after all, it's only Andrew Neil who seems to have been let off the leash to interrogates both sides so earnestly.    

There is a lot of chatter on facebook regarding the black woman who was giving Farage hassle. Apparently she is a a blogger and was invited on to the programme for that reason. She is being hammered on facebook too.

You forgot to say, she a far left activist

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

AstiSpumante wrote:

After a massive government / remain campaign over the last few days to get all of the students in all of the uni's to register to vote the government have decided to extend last nights deadline so none of them miss out, bless, I wonder which way they think they will vote ?  

I just want to make sure that I have this right...

One of the core reasons for leaving EU, according to Nigel Farage, is because it is undemocratically dominated by unelected old men in suits (Farage is 52, has failed in 7 attempts to be elected as an MP and always wears a suit).

And the way to right this heinous wrong is to deny people the registration to vote who were trying to register within the well-publicised deadline because of a computer failure caused in part by the heavy campaigning of both sides to get everybody possible registered to vote?

Meaning at best that the way to a better democracy is to deny people the right to vote for it or at worst to remove the right of people with whom you disagree the right to vote?

Have I got that right?

Not really.

Firstly, people have had ample time to register without being railroaded in at the last minute by the remain campaign.

Secondly, are you sure the system crashed ? I know someone who registered after 10pm, no problems.

Thirdly, even if the system did crash for the last 3 or 4 hours, why extend the registering window by 2 full days, does it really take that long to drag those ever so keen remainers students out of their beds / the pub ?

I don't trust any politican. I do know that at the moment, being in the EU is not that bad.

If leave get the vote, do all you "leavers" actually trust Johnson and Farage to make things better for everyone?

Can't make it much worse than the EU has!

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

Can't make it much worse than the EU has!

Any examples?

Migration.
Human rights law.
Euro, not that we are in it, but the misery it is causing countries like Greece.
Hollander and the short arsed cnut before him.
Merkel.
Tusk.
Delors.
Juncker.
Schulz.
Barroso.
Court of Justice of the European Union.
European Commission.
European Parliament.
European Central Bank.
Agriculture policy.
Fisheries and food policy.
Business policy.
Finance and tax policy.
Energy tax.
Corruption.

AstiSpumante wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

AstiSpumante wrote:

After a massive government / remain campaign over the last few days to get all of the students in all of the uni's to register to vote the government have decided to extend last nights deadline so none of them miss out, bless, I wonder which way they think they will vote ?  

I just want to make sure that I have this right...

One of the core reasons for leaving EU, according to Nigel Farage, is because it is undemocratically dominated by unelected old men in suits (Farage is 52, has failed in 7 attempts to be elected as an MP and always wears a suit).

And the way to right this heinous wrong is to deny people the registration to vote who were trying to register within the well-publicised deadline because of a computer failure caused in part by the heavy campaigning of both sides to get everybody possible registered to vote?

Meaning at best that the way to a better democracy is to deny people the right to vote for it or at worst to remove the right of people with whom you disagree the right to vote?

Have I got that right?

Not really.

Firstly, people have had ample time to register without being railroaded in at the last minute by the remain campaign.

Secondly, are you sure the system crashed ? I know someone who registered after 10pm, no problems.

Thirdly, even if the system did crash for the last 3 or 4 hours, why extend the registering window by 2 full days, does it really take that long to drag those ever so keen remainers students out of their beds / the pub ?

Regarding that last point...

If X thousands of people using the site in the last 4 hours caused it to crash then extending the deadline by 4 hours so that the same x thousands can register at a later point isn't going to help, is it?

Einstein probably doesn't get quoted much in an EU context but wasn't it him that said "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"?

Allowing a 4 hour extension would only see the site crash again; it would have to be extended for a longer period. This is not rocket science.

Am I sure the system crashed? Yes. Government is notoriously bad at anything to do with IT and thousands of people have said that it did and all of it was confirmed by the media who checked up on the stories as they emerged. Are they all lying? This really is clutching at straws.

And nobody was railroaded. People exercised their rights to do as they please and they decided to engage with the electoral process according to the rules as prompted to repeatedly by both sides of the debate. So they left it late... So what - maybe they were inspired by Farage's magnificence as a visonary, intellect, raconteur, debater and wit to do so? All they were doing was actioning JIT ("just in time") to their decision making which is a process employed by millions of companies worldwide every single day of the year.

[quote="Sir Francis Drake"][quote="AstiSpumante"]

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

AstiSpumante wrote:

After a massive government / remain campaign over the last few days to get all of the students in all of the uni's to register to vote the government have decided to extend last nights deadline so none of them miss out, bless, I wonder which way they think they will vote ?  

..... maybe they were inspired by Farage's magnificence as a 'visonary,' intellect, raconteur, debater and wit to do so?

I don't think you could call Farage a visionary by any stretch of the imagination, after all, he had an excellent guide in Jean Monnet the so-called founding father of the EU.

Monnet wrote: "Europe's nations should be guided towards the super-state 'without their people understanding what is happening.' This can be accomplished by successive steps, each 'disguised' as having an economic purpose, but will eventually and irreversibly 'lead to federation.'"

So, the road map to a super-state was suddenly there for all to see - equally plain to see was the architects use of fraudulent and deceitful means to achieve it.

So, you may possess the acumen to slip into reverse gear, or continue to be suckered by a bunch of unprincipled spivs.

I've changed my mind and will now vote to remain in the EU. A very tough decision to make but on balance the future for the young will i feel be better served in Europe, plus the fact that Farage and Johnson are a couple of Cocks.

Suffered, has all that rain affected your brain? Ffs get back to work

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

Migration.
Have a read..

Migration/immigration seems to be the hot topic but in reality what is the real issue?
Germans, French, Italians etc are not welcome?
Poles, Lithuanians, Bulgarians, Romanians etc are not welcome?
North Africans, Arabs, Asians etc are not welcome?

Speaking to Germans here I often hear the word "ausländer". When I mention that I'm an "ausländer", they say "oh, I don't mean you"!

Who do you mean? All of the above or a select few?

The UK does control it's borders.


Human rights law.

What is wrong with human rights law?????????????

And anyhow, the European convention on human rights is outside the EU so leaving would make no difference.

Euro, not that we are in it, but the misery it is causing countries like Greece.

As you say, we are out of it. Nice that you are concerned about the misery it is causing. Maybe the UK can help those less fortunate in some way.


Hollander and the short arsed cnut before him.
Merkel.
Tusk.
Delors.
Juncker.
Schulz.
Barroso.

I don't like politicians either.


Court of Justice of the European Union.

Have a read..

What is wrong with justice.


European Commission.

I don't like this either but if we leave the EU we will still have to comply with what they say if we wish to trade with the EU.
Surely better for us to stay in and get things changed rather than have no say at all.


European Parliament.

The European parliament is elected by you and me. Lobby your MEP, if you know who it is (I haven't got a clue who mine is or what he/she
actually does). Again better to stay in and push for change rather than have no influence.


European Central Bank.

This one looks after the euro, not the pound. I hate bankers too.


Agriculture policy.

IT needs changing. How can we best do that?


Fisheries and food policy.

Have a read..

There are some good and some not so good aspects.

Have a read..


Business policy.

Have a read..


Finance and tax policy.

Have a read..

Taxes are still a national decision.

Energy tax.
The real reason electricity in the UK is the most expensive in the EU.

Corruption.

Corruption in the UK will not go away if we leave.

I think that the ideas behind many of the above are good and are well intended. However, I think it is going too far on some things.
For me, taking everything into consideration there are many good and a few bad things about the EU. The UK has a lot of opt outs.

Rather than throwing our toys out of the pram and leaving, I think that we should stay and fight more to change things for the better.

We know where we are at the moment and for once we actually know the man on the street's main concerns. Bleieve me or not, but the same concerns exsist here too.

Rather than leave, bring the politicians to account and get change from within.

On another note, did you know that all the live UK debates on ITV are being shown live on German TV?

One good thing to come out of this referendum is that a lot more people over here are discussing the EU too.

Migration/immigration is "the" hot topic here too but really only concerning those who have, let's say, a different "ideology"!

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

I've changed my mind and will now vote to remain in the EU. A very tough decision to make but on balance the future for the young will i feel be better served in Europe, plus the fact that Farage and Johnson are a couple of Cocks.

The cheap labour from EU is keeping wages down, my eldest is a tradesman and hasn't had a pay rise in five years, my missus hasn't had one in eight years. Don't listen to the snakeoil salesmen they couldn't give a feck about you and me.

Les Miserable wrote:

Suffered, has all that rain affected your brain?   Ffs get back to work

The rain is a pain in the arse today i just got used to wall to wall sunshine ffs

Amsterdamage wrote:

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

I've changed my mind and will now vote to remain in the EU. A very tough decision to make but on balance the future for the young will i feel be better served in Europe, plus the fact that Farage and Johnson are a couple of Cocks.

The cheap labour from EU is keeping wages down, my eldest is a tradesman and hasn't had a pay rise in five years, my missus hasn't had one in eight years. Don't listen to the snakeoil salesmen they couldn't give a feck about you and me.

I'm not a fan of the Eu at all, but all the independent experts reckon staying in is the better option but who knows? i think i will stick to giving football advice to Jimmy!

Is this devil's rain up from France, or has it blown over from the good old US of A ? That's the big question facing the stoic Brit Eu voter this morning.

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

I've changed my mind and will now vote to remain in the EU. A very tough decision to make but on balance the future for the young will i feel be better served in Europe, plus the fact that Farage and Johnson are a couple of Cocks.

That was pretty much where I came in.

You have reached the right conclusion.

He's got just under 2 weeks to make the right decision, plenty of time for a bit of flip flopping.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

I've changed my mind and will now vote to remain in the EU. A very tough decision to make but on balance the future for the young will i feel be better served in Europe, plus the fact that Farage and Johnson are a couple of Cocks.

That was pretty much where I came in.

You have reached the right conclusion.

In the battle of the have and have nots I didn't doubt where you'd be Franny. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer in this just points of view taken from differing directions. You'll be gutted when you're outvoted by the wronguns.

QT was another full on episode last night. Eddie ''the marathon man'' Izzard and Nigel Farage were constantly bickering with each other and at one point someone shouted to Izzard to shut up.

On Newsnight a top labour person fears leave will win.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

I've changed my mind and will now vote to remain in the EU. A very tough decision to make but on balance the future for the young will i feel be better served in Europe, plus the fact that Farage and Johnson are a couple of Cocks.

That was pretty much where I came in.

You have reached the right conclusion.

Hopefully that definitive statement will be enough to get Suffers to change his mind again.