Mankover Planning application submitted

akagreengull wrote:

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

How is Plymouth ever going to be seen as a proper city with potential, rather than a Concrete covered shithole, if it starts concreting its lovely parks with a Soviet Style concrete Crapshacks, which benefits no one but the Property (lol) developer?

Thing is Suffers there are a lot of Plymothians who think that Plymouth will only be a proper city, if it IS covered in concrete. I believe very few people in the city give a flying feck about the encroachment on Central Park they will just think great Plimuff has a new ice rink.
You only have to walk around the city centre on a Saturday to see what kind of unthinking goons are around as they flock to their corporate shrines while staring hypnotically into a mobile held in their stretched out palm.

Plymouth should go for quality developments that keep green spaces not a race to the bottom concrete nightmare of takeaways and office Tower Blocks, that the East Devon Property Speculators, proposing!
I agree totaly about the goons and their phones bhey, same in every town.

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

akagreengull wrote:

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

How is Plymouth ever going to be seen as a proper city with potential, rather than a Concrete covered shithole, if it starts concreting its lovely parks with a Soviet Style concrete Crapshacks, which benefits no one but the Property (lol) developer?

Thing is Suffers there are a lot of Plymothians who think that Plymouth will only be a proper city, if it IS covered in concrete. I believe very few people in the city give a flying feck about the encroachment on Central Park they will just think great Plimuff has a new ice rink.
You only have to walk around the city centre on a Saturday to see what kind of unthinking goons are around as they flock to their corporate shrines while staring hypnotically into a mobile held in their stretched out palm.

Plymouth should go for quality developments that keep green spaces not a race to the bottom concrete nightmare of takeaways and office Tower Blocks, that the East Devon Property Speculators, proposing!
I agree totaly about the goons and their phones bhey, same in every town.

Tis the same in every town Suffers, although in Newton we don't have the same percentage of corporate shrines, there are several independent shops and eateries in little ole Newton at the moment.

The brentophiles will no doubt goad us Argo fans when the planning application is approved. But their crowing from the top of their dungheaps will be short lived when it becomes clear nothing will ever be built.

Freathy wrote:

The brentophiles will no doubt goad us Argo fans when the planning application is approved.  But their crowing from the top of their dungheaps will be short lived when it becomes clear nothing will ever  be built.

Yep, i'm sure Brent will get approval for his grim concrete tower blocks, and yes the usual posh leg shaggers will get all excited, but then the Comedy really starts when Jimmy goes through his Bullshit followed by delay slapstick routine which will all end in predictable failure just like the Mini Stand.

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

The Illogan Knobber, and the Sussex Throbber, theeame not from Plimmuff wots the Posh Squires plan got to doo viv theeme?

The dockyard siren was much louder back then, could be heard clearly at Illogan Ian's house in Cornwall

I see the trust's fb page is reporting that the car park is rammed as of about an hour ago. Just wait till the cluster*uck happens.

And Postey keeps banging on about why we didn't object to the life centre? The life centre was built on one piece of park whilst the old Mayflower swimming pool was removed resulting in no net loss of park, also the life centre is sporting, swimming, diving ect whilst the offices are not. I didn't object to the development as a whole just the office block and the loss of parking.
Unlike Nool and probably Postey I can trace my family back four generations in the Millbay area which is linked to this development I have every right to object.

And Brent hasn't saved the club any money whatsoever, £150k has been saved in fees by tacking them onto the clusterfuck but loan payments to Hallet are £250k pa so you only need a delay of about 8 months to soak up the £150k, it's not rocket science.

And a final AND, no one, not one single person objected to the plans because they don't like James Brent, several misguided fools supported the plans because they are fans of James Brent over and above of being fans of the club but not the other way around.

Earwegoagain wrote:

And a final AND, no one, not one single person objected to the plans because they don't like James Brent, several misguided fools supported the plans because they are fans of James Brent over and above of being fans of the club but not the other way around.

A very valid point.

Far more people are supporting this development because of their blind loyalty to Brent, as opposed to those who oppose everything Brent does. You only have to look at the supporting comments on the PCC website - it’s there in black and white.

Janners are compliant forelock tuggers, the farm is for Janners (although owned by a Cornishman) hence the farm is compliant and forelock tugging.

The point has been raised on the other side that those with reservations about Mr Brent's plans aren't protesting against the upgrade of the skate park.

Praps that's because physical activity should be encouraged in a local park. I would also hope that the plans for a council-run cafe is a success, like the excellent one in Devonport Park. These plans contrast with the plans for an office block and fast food 'restaurants', faceless joints where the majority of staff work on minimum wage or zero hours contracts and there is zero sense of community.

I fully support the skate park, as someone who has spent hundreds if not thousands of hours skating in the park I'd be mad to oppose it. There is a huge difference between 200 offices and a skate park located in a park. Conversely I wouldn't oppose offices being built in a commercial district, it's not rocket science for foks sake.

Earwegoagain wrote:

I fully support the skate park, as someone who has spent hundreds if not thousands of hours skating in the park I'd be mad to oppose it. There is a huge difference between 200 offices and a skate park located in a park. Conversely I wouldn't oppose offices being built in a commercial district, it's not rocket science for foks sake.

Yes a skate park for kids in the park is fine, i would suggest though that the best place for Jimmys concrete tower block would be on the front lawn of his country mansion.

There's a ridiculous idea being peddled that people objecting to the plans have caused a delay. It's up there with Bretonside causing the demise of HHP1.

Any hybrid planning application with the number of documents attached to this one is going to take ages to go through the planning process. Especially when the applicant decides to submit changes part way through and PCC have to reopen consultation because of those changes.

There hasn't been any delay, unless you're somebody who either doesn't know what you're talking about or thinks everybody should do exactly what you want, immediately. And if there is a delay the fault will lie with those who decided to make the application so complex and unmanageable.

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

I fully support the skate park, as someone who has spent hundreds if not thousands of hours skating in the park I'd be mad to oppose it. There is a huge difference between 200 offices and a skate park located in a park. Conversely I wouldn't oppose offices being built in a commercial district, it's not rocket science for foks sake.

Yes a skate park for kids in the park is fine, i would suggest though that the best place for Jimmys concrete tower block would be on the front lawn of his country mansion.

With a school and a dentists in each corner in lighthouses it would look wicked.

corners are still up for grabs...

Peggy wrote:

There's a ridiculous idea being peddled that people objecting to the plans have caused a delay. It's up there with Bretonside causing the demise of HHP1.

Any hybrid planning application with the number of documents attached to this one is going to take ages to go through the planning process. Especially when the applicant decides to submit changes part way through and PCC have to reopen consultation because of those changes.

There hasn't been any delay, unless you're somebody who either doesn't know what you're talking about or thinks everybody should do exactly what you want, immediately. And if there is a delay the fault will lie with those who decided to make the application so complex and unmanageable.

Why do these people support Brent's plans so wholeheartedly anyway? You'd think any fan of the club would be interested in planning being given to the Grandstand mankover which I think will happen, we have the money for it so why does it matter to them that Brent gets all the addons? I'm sure Porky has been offered a reward for a positive outcome, nothing else makes sense.

Earwegoagain wrote:

Peggy wrote:

There's a ridiculous idea being peddled that people objecting to the plans have caused a delay. It's up there with Bretonside causing the demise of HHP1.

Any hybrid planning application with the number of documents attached to this one is going to take ages to go through the planning process. Especially when the applicant decides to submit changes part way through and PCC have to reopen consultation because of those changes.

There hasn't been any delay, unless you're somebody who either doesn't know what you're talking about or thinks everybody should do exactly what you want, immediately. And if there is a delay the fault will lie with those who decided to make the application so complex and unmanageable.

Why do these people support Brent's plans so wholeheartedly anyway? You'd think any fan of the club would be interested in planning being given to the Grandstand mankover which I think will happen, we have the money for it so why does it matter to them that Brent gets all the addons? I'm sure Porky has been offered a reward for a positive outcome, nothing else makes sense.

I think the fully supportive one, is on a eat your own weight in pasties (Cornish Naturally) reward for a positive outcome, which is a big commitment from Jimmy.

Already been passed

Amanda Lumley, chief executive of Destination Plymouth, said planned hotels on the Hoe, at Plymouth Argyle’s Home Park stadium, and in the former Derrys department store will merely compensate for the loss of the now-demolished Legacy and Quality hotels.

She said: “We have three hotels being built but they will only fill the gap from the loss of the Legacy and Quality hotels and we will be back at 2013 level.

Tgwu wrote:

Already been passed

Amanda Lumley, chief executive of Destination Plymouth, said planned hotels on the Hoe, at Plymouth Argyle’s Home Park stadium, and in the former Derrys department store will merely compensate for the loss of the now-demolished Legacy and Quality hotels.

She said: “We have three hotels being built but they will only fill the gap from the loss of the Legacy and Quality hotels and we will be back at 2013 level.

Proof that you don't have to know what you're talking about to hold down this kind of post. She should get on a bus to Milehouse (the park and ride bus goes there, you know) and have a look at the alleged building site.

The ridiculous office block, using a public car park for private development and OTT number of 'restaurants' are my reasons for being so anti the development. Building a hotel on a particularly scruffy piece of land with easy access from a main road IMHO is OK. Mind you, it's one thing to get planning permission, another matter entirely to get backing from investors to make it happen.

I'm interested to know where the £150k figure is from. For the whole development, sure, but having a little play around on the Planning Portal fee estimator, from what we know about the grandstand re-furb, it's tough to get an estimate anywhere near that. And, as has been noted, that will have been waved through on its own, so we're probably at a net loss with interest payments.

The parking is what it is. Don't forget that PCC policy guidelines give maximum numbers of parking spaces that are revised down based on public transport links. You can argue that such a policy needs a more joined up citywide public transport policy, and you'd be right, but that's the policy as it stands, and I can't see parking issues weighing too heavily.

The food places, hotel and Argyle related retail? Fair enough imo, as long as they look right and compliment the life centre, and as long as there are proper mitigation measures imposed for elsewhere in the park. Those things have been on the action plan since it came in in 2008.

The offices though? How the hell does that work? If Plymouth is crying out for offices (and I honestly don't know either way) shouldn't they be in established business and science parks? They are against the action plan, from what I can see, and if they are passed, they should have a massive section 106 agreement attached, forcing Akkeron to pump money into improving other areas of the park in line with the action plan, imo.

Tl;dr - not all of us are just anti-Brenters objecting for the sake of it. The plan has several fundamental issues, and there should be ongoing discussions to improve it. In the meantime, those interest payments...

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

I fully support the skate park, as someone who has spent hundreds if not thousands of hours skating in the park I'd be mad to oppose it. There is a huge difference between 200 offices and a skate park located in a park. Conversely I wouldn't oppose offices being built in a commercial district, it's not rocket science for foks sake.

Yes a skate park for kids in the park is fine, i would suggest though that the best place for Jimmys concrete tower block would be on the front lawn of his country mansion.

preferably on his tennis court

MikeWN wrote:

I'm interested to know where the £150k figure is from. For the whole development, sure, but having a little play around on the Planning Portal fee estimator, from what we know about the grandstand re-furb, it's tough to get an estimate anywhere near that. And, as has been noted, that will have been waved through on its own, so we're probably at a net loss with interest payments.

The parking is what it is. Don't forget that PCC policy guidelines give maximum numbers of parking spaces that are revised down based on public transport links. You can argue that such a policy needs a more joined up citywide public transport policy, and you'd be right, but that's the policy as it stands, and I can't see parking issues weighing too heavily.

The food places, hotel and Argyle related retail? Fair enough imo, as long as they look right and compliment the life centre, and as long as there are proper mitigation measures imposed for elsewhere in the park. Those things have been on the action plan since it came in in 2008.

The offices though? How the hell does that work? If Plymouth is crying out for offices (and I honestly don't know either way) shouldn't they be in established business and science parks? They are against the action plan, from what I can see, and if they are passed, they should have a massive section 106 agreement attached, forcing Akkeron to pump money into improving other areas of the park in line with the action plan, imo.

Tl;dr - not all of us are just anti-Brenters objecting for the sake of it. The plan has several fundamental issues, and there should be ongoing discussions to improve it. In the meantime, those interest payments...

The £150k figure came from Nipper (the dog from the HMV or His Masters Voice ads) or Nool as he's otherwise known, who else? It should be fairly easy to work out fees either on the £5m cost of the refurb or on the square foot of the build. As it stands I would say the £150k is a lie as is most of what comes out of Illogan Ian's mouth.
I think that he ACV and Area Action Plan could be a thorn in his side, the parking should be but with the disabled club having been ought by Brent that's fecked that. The provision of 6 disabled places should have been laughed at, are we genuinely meant to believe that only 6 disabled fans attend Argyle? On top of that we have all the fans like me with dodgy legs, hips, backs who struggle to attend matches if they have to walk a mile or two, the parking issue to me is very relevant but living in a society where anyone who may even look like they struggle to earn a crust is seen as some kind of free ticket to free cash and idleness I'm not surprised.