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 Carey gone? (Now Staying)

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Graiser

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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:16 pm

beesrus wrote:
Graiser wrote:
Footballers, zero hours culture ? don't make me laugh.

Contracts offered give the club 2 years security, but the player/employee, one year's security. I can't think of a more divisive contract likely to cause ire in the player's head, given a market value that gives them the power to choose. The practice just just wreaks of a one way street, and is all part of the mission creep in wider society, headed by the infamous "zero hours" nonsense. I don't expect you to get anywhere near understanding the problem. You don't have the experience or desire to understand.
Building a club ? Don't make me laugh.

I've just retired from successfully managing 60 staff in a Rail business which turned over 18 million last year, so your patronising remarks are not merited and if you want a debate on project management, staff terms and conditions, standard working hours, fatigue criteria, performance management, CDM regulations etc etc then feel free by PM, as we don't wish to bore the ATD brethren, so just wind your neck in in regards to "understanding the problem"

In regards to Players contracts, as far as I remember when Jake Jervis pitched up he was quite happy with the contract with the 12 month option on offer, which he exercised and as he's now about to commence a third season it safe to assume he's been a happy chappy, Carey also made it quite clear he would exercise the option to stay the additional year and quite frankly with the exception of Spencer and Smith I'm glad the club was not committed to keep on the released players based on their performances last season.

From what I can also glean from player movements in L1 and L2 this close season the 12 month option following a year or sometimes a 2 year contract appears to be the norm.
It's safe to say that Argyle wanted to speak to Carey twice about a new contract and he refused to do so as his is right.
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beesrus



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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:45 pm

Graiser wrote:
beesrus wrote:
Graiser wrote:
Footballers, zero hours culture ? don't make me laugh.

Contracts offered give the club 2 years security, but the player/employee, one year's security. I can't think of a more divisive contract likely to cause ire in the player's head, given a market value that gives them the power to choose. The practice just just wreaks of a one way street, and is all part of the mission creep in wider society, headed by the infamous "zero hours" nonsense. I don't expect you to get anywhere near understanding the problem. You don't have the experience or desire to understand.
Building a club ? Don't make me laugh.

I've just retired from successfully managing 60 staff in a Rail business which turned over 18 million last year, so your patronising remarks are not merited and if you want a debate on project management, staff terms and conditions, standard working hours, fatigue criteria, performance management, CDM regulations etc etc then feel free by PM, as we don't wish to bore the ATD brethren, so just wind your neck in in regards to "understanding the problem"

In regards to Players contracts, as far as I remember when Jake Jervis pitched up he was quite happy with the contract with the 12 month option on offer, which he exercised and as he's now about to commence a third season it safe to assume he's been a happy chappy, Carey also made it quite clear he would exercise the option to stay the additional year and quite frankly with the exception of Spencer and Smith I'm glad the club was  not committed to keep on the released players based on their performances last season.

From what I can also glean from player movements in L1 and L2 this close season the 12 month option following a year or sometimes a 2 year contract appears to be the norm.
It's safe to say that Argyle wanted to speak to Carey twice about a new contract and he refused to do so as his is right.

Hey, Graiser, your remarks sound like a certain forum owning ex line manager, when trying to impress a former investment banker. You safe secure life long line managers are all the same. Very Happy  
We can all give the life experience routine. I, myself, gave up "managing" 50 staff when I was 26, overseeing a far bigger budget at the time. See, it's easy.
You don't understand, and you don't want to understand. You belong to a different skool of thought, just like the present owners of the football club. I believe you eventually get out what you put in, in any relationship. You clearly believe there's a magic bullet out there. Geddon, good luck with that.
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Graiser

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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:56 pm

beesrus wrote:
Graiser wrote:
beesrus wrote:
Graiser wrote:
Footballers, zero hours culture ? don't make me laugh.

Contracts offered give the club 2 years security, but the player/employee, one year's security. I can't think of a more divisive contract likely to cause ire in the player's head, given a market value that gives them the power to choose. The practice just just wreaks of a one way street, and is all part of the mission creep in wider society, headed by the infamous "zero hours" nonsense. I don't expect you to get anywhere near understanding the problem. You don't have the experience or desire to understand.
Building a club ? Don't make me laugh.

I've just retired from successfully managing 60 staff in a Rail business which turned over 18 million last year, so your patronising remarks are not merited and if you want a debate on project management, staff terms and conditions, standard working hours, fatigue criteria, performance management, CDM regulations etc etc then feel free by PM, as we don't wish to bore the ATD brethren, so just wind your neck in in regards to "understanding the problem"

In regards to Players contracts, as far as I remember when Jake Jervis pitched up he was quite happy with the contract with the 12 month option on offer, which he exercised and as he's now about to commence a third season it safe to assume he's been a happy chappy, Carey also made it quite clear he would exercise the option to stay the additional year and quite frankly with the exception of Spencer and Smith I'm glad the club was  not committed to keep on the released players based on their performances last season.

From what I can also glean from player movements in L1 and L2 this close season the 12 month option following a year or sometimes a 2 year contract appears to be the norm.
It's safe to say that Argyle wanted to speak to Carey twice about a new contract and he refused to do so as his is right.

Hey, Graiser, your remarks sound like a certain forum owning ex line manager, when trying to impress a former investment banker. You safe secure life long line managers are all the same. Very Happy  
We can all give the life experience routine. I, myself, gave up "managing" 50 staff when I was 26, overseeing a far bigger budget at the time. See, it's easy. if you thought it was easy you weren't doing it right
You don't understand, and you don't want to understand. You belong to a different skool of thought, just like the present owners of the football club. I believe you eventually get out what you put in, in any relationship, you clearly believe there's a magic bullet out there.
No I don't and there isn't

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tigertony

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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:38 pm

beesrus wrote:
Graiser wrote:
Footballers, zero hours culture ? don't make me laugh.

Contracts offered give the club 2 years security, but the player/employee, one year's security. I can't think of a more divisive contract likely to cause ire in the player's head, given a market value that gives them the power to choose. The practice just just wreaks of a one way street, and is all part of the mission creep in wider society, headed by the infamous "zero hours" nonsense. I don't expect you to get anywhere near understanding the problem. You don't have the experience or desire to understand.
Building a club ? Don't make me laugh.
Bit of an arrogant statement!
The situation is quite straightforward. Employers will always have the upper hand and despite what you see and hear most employers try to treat their staff fairly while trying to grow the business. Many employers now use fixed term contracts as football clubs do. Most clubs (employers) in the EFL (country) do not have the financial ability to pay players (employees) over an extended period who are not producing to the standard they should be for reasons other than injury (illness). (Peter Swan?) So the one year contract with an extension clause gives the club some breathing space and also gives the player some flexibility if things don't work out. FTC often include a 'get-out' clause for both sides to terminate early which I'm guessing is not the case with footballers.

As for zero-hour contracts - the press does not accurately report the situation. Cries of ''should be banned'' do not reflect the fact that only 1 in 35 people are on zero-hour contracts as main employment and about 68% of those are happy with the hours they work. Hardly huge numbers.

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PatDunne



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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:29 am

One year contracts work so well that all the Prem and Championship teams use them....... maybe.........
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Graiser

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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:33 pm

PatDunne wrote:
One year contracts work so well that all the Prem and Championship teams use them....... maybe.........

Spending 30-40 million on a player is slightly different than free transfers, it's a common sense point of view that any club investing that volume of spend will want to secure the player on 4-5 year contracts to protect their investment.
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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:49 pm

tigertony wrote:
beesrus wrote:
Graiser wrote:
Footballers, zero hours culture ? don't make me laugh.

Contracts offered give the club 2 years security, but the player/employee, one year's security. I can't think of a more divisive contract likely to cause ire in the player's head, given a market value that gives them the power to choose. The practice just just wreaks of a one way street, and is all part of the mission creep in wider society, headed by the infamous "zero hours" nonsense. I don't expect you to get anywhere near understanding the problem. You don't have the experience or desire to understand.
Building a club ? Don't make me laugh.
Bit of an arrogant statement!
The situation is quite straightforward. Employers will always have the upper hand and despite what you see and hear most employers try to treat their staff fairly while trying to grow the business. Many employers now use fixed term contracts as football clubs do. Most clubs (employers) in the EFL (country) do not have the financial ability to pay players (employees) over an extended period who are not producing to the standard they should be for reasons other than injury (illness). (Peter Swan?) So the one year contract with an extension clause gives the club some breathing space and also gives the player some flexibility if things don't work out. FTC often include a 'get-out' clause for both sides to terminate early which I'm guessing is not the case with footballers.

As for zero-hour contracts - the press does not accurately report the situation. Cries of ''should be banned'' do not reflect the fact that only 1 in 35 people are on zero-hour contracts as main employment and about 68% of those are happy with the hours they work. Hardly huge numbers.


Bollocks.

If your figures are accurate...

1 in 35 must represent about 1,000,000 people (assuming a workforce of 35,000,000 which can't be far off) meaning 320,000 people are not happy with the hours they work.

Which unless you wish regard a city the size of Plymouth as "insignificant" is a lot of people.
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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:24 pm

torytony more like.
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beesrus



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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:25 pm

Very Happy  Somebody had to say it AKA.
Let's be honest, the old geezas on here, Zyph the crank wordsmith that strings 3 words together on a daily basis, Tone the RN Drone, the Village changeling and HS2 Greaser, are classic blue fodder, and gleefully admit as much while extolling Brent's methods. I get bored with their defence of the indefensible. I chucked out my television years ago to get away from such blabbing. Harbouring these pasoti fugitives ( Zyph excluded ) destroys this forum, but then, hey, that's reasonably free forums for you. It won't be long before it becomes de rigeur to boycott certain social media, as it's imploding in it's present form.
And sadly all at a club that had Michael Foot as a director, who actually resigned out of principle, when he recognised what was going on with the last bunch of property speculators in a publicly purchased and owned park. Such speculators always need boots on the ground, hence the pasoti "paras" pig  pig You couldn't make it up.
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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:35 pm

beesrus wrote:
Very Happy  Somebody had to say it AKA.
Let's be honest, the old geezas on here, Zyph the crank wordsmith, Tone the RN Drone, the Village changeling and HS2 Greaser, are classic blue fodder, and gleefully admit as much while extolling Brent's methods. I get bored with their defence of the indefensible. I chucked out my television years ago to get away from such blabbing. Harbouring these pasoti fugitives ( Zyph excluded ) destroys this forum, but then, hey, that's reasonably free forums for you.
And sadly all at a club that had Michael Foot as a director, who actually resigned out of principle, when he recognised what was going on with the last bunch of property speculators in a publicly purchased and owned park. Such speculators always need boots on the ground, hence the pasoti "paras" pig  pig You couldn't make it up.

Good Post I think we are on the same wavelength, you make a good point about Michael, he must be turning in his grave right now at what tory boy shyster Brent is doing to his beloved club.
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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:58 pm

beesrus wrote:
Very Happy  Somebody had to say it AKA.
Let's be honest, the old geezas on here, Zyph the crank wordsmith that strings 3 words together on a daily basis, Tone the RN Drone, the Village changeling and HS2 Greaser, are classic blue fodder, and gleefully admit as much while extolling Brent's methods. I get bored with their defence of the indefensible. I chucked out my television years ago to get away from such blabbing. Harbouring these pasoti fugitives ( Zyph excluded ) destroys this forum, but then, hey, that's reasonably free forums for you. It won't be long before it becomes de rigeur to boycott certain social media, as it's imploding in it's present form.
And sadly all at a club that had Michael Foot as a director, who actually resigned out of principle, when he recognised what was going on with the last bunch of property speculators in a publicly purchased and owned park. Such speculators always need boots on the ground, hence the pasoti "paras" pig  pig You couldn't make it up.

So did Peter Jones. I wonder what made me lose those principles over the years?
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Rollo Tomasi



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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:19 pm

beesrus wrote:

And sadly all at a club that had Michael Foot as a director, who actually resigned out of principle, when he recognised what was going on with the last bunch of property speculators in a publicly purchased and owned park. Such speculators always need boots on the ground, hence the pasoti "paras" pig  pig You couldn't make it up.

You certainly couldn't. Your beloved Michael walked away with a £150,000 profit. It's not just property speculators that gain you know. But then again that's an uncomfortable truth for you apparent socialists.
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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:42 pm

"apparent socialists"?
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tigertony

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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:25 am

beesrus wrote:
Very Happy  Somebody had to say it AKA.
Let's be honest, the old geezas on here, Zyph the crank wordsmith that strings 3 words together on a daily basis, Tone the RN Drone, the Village changeling and HS2 Greaser, are classic blue fodder, and gleefully admit as much while extolling Brent's methods. I get bored with their defence of the indefensible. I chucked out my television years ago to get away from such blabbing. Harbouring these pasoti fugitives ( Zyph excluded ) destroys this forum, but then, hey, that's reasonably free forums for you. It won't be long before it becomes de rigeur to boycott certain social media, as it's imploding in it's present form.
And sadly all at a club that had Michael Foot as a director, who actually resigned out of principle, when he recognised what was going on with the last bunch of property speculators in a publicly purchased and owned park. Such speculators always need boots on the ground, hence the pasoti "paras" pig  pig You couldn't make it up.
I try to avoid discussing JB and his suits and certainly don't go around praising them. I can take him or leave him. At least ''blue fodder'' supported Armed Forces Day unlike Corbyn the Glastonbury Geezer. Pretty poor show really! Not sure how occupations, past or present, have any relevance to this discussion but if it makes you feel better then so be it.
Has Carey gone yet?
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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:26 am

No, It like wating for the wife to give birth, (sorry I missed my last one as I was up at Leeds watching Argyle) sorry
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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:16 am

tigertony wrote:
beesrus wrote:
Very Happy  Somebody had to say it AKA.
Let's be honest, the old geezas on here, Zyph the crank wordsmith that strings 3 words together on a daily basis, Tone the RN Drone, the Village changeling and HS2 Greaser, are classic blue fodder, and gleefully admit as much while extolling Brent's methods. I get bored with their defence of the indefensible. I chucked out my television years ago to get away from such blabbing. Harbouring these pasoti fugitives ( Zyph excluded ) destroys this forum, but then, hey, that's reasonably free forums for you. It won't be long before it becomes de rigeur to boycott certain social media, as it's imploding in it's present form.
And sadly all at a club that had Michael Foot as a director, who actually resigned out of principle, when he recognised what was going on with the last bunch of property speculators in a publicly purchased and owned park. Such speculators always need boots on the ground, hence the pasoti "paras" pig  pig You couldn't make it up.
I try to avoid discussing JB and his suits and certainly don't go around praising them. I can take him or leave him. At least ''blue fodder'' supported Armed Forces Day unlike Corbyn the Glastonbury Geezer. Pretty poor show really! Not sure how occupations, past or present, have any relevance to this discussion but if it makes you feel better then so be it.
Has Carey gone yet?

Not sure how talking about Armed Forces day and Corbyn at Glasto has any relevance either to whether Carey stays or not. knob
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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:07 am

tigertony wrote:
beesrus wrote:
Very Happy  Somebody had to say it AKA.
Let's be honest, the old geezas on here, Zyph the crank wordsmith that strings 3 words together on a daily basis, Tone the RN Drone, the Village changeling and HS2 Greaser, are classic blue fodder, and gleefully admit as much while extolling Brent's methods. I get bored with their defence of the indefensible. I chucked out my television years ago to get away from such blabbing. Harbouring these pasoti fugitives ( Zyph excluded ) destroys this forum, but then, hey, that's reasonably free forums for you. It won't be long before it becomes de rigeur to boycott certain social media, as it's imploding in it's present form.
And sadly all at a club that had Michael Foot as a director, who actually resigned out of principle, when he recognised what was going on with the last bunch of property speculators in a publicly purchased and owned park. Such speculators always need boots on the ground, hence the pasoti "paras" pig  pig You couldn't make it up.
I try to avoid discussing JB and his suits and certainly don't go around praising them. I can take him or leave him. At least ''blue fodder'' supported Armed Forces Day unlike Corbyn the Glastonbury Geezer. Pretty poor show really! Not sure how occupations, past or present, have any relevance to this discussion but if it makes you feel better then so be it.
Has Carey gone yet?

Between 2010 and 2015 the Tories cut over 20,000 army personnel, over 8,500 from the RAF, and 5,500 from the Royal Navy. So perhaps they should concentrate on supporting the Armed Forces first.

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Rollo Tomasi



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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:12 am

A glance back a page or two reveals who first politicised this thread.
Sure enough it was beesrus. It's always beesrus.
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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:41 pm

WTF does politics have to do with this ?
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Rollo Tomasi



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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:59 pm

Quite.
Beesrus turns every topic into a political tirade against the Right, the blue fodder, the mill owners, the barons, Capitalism, etc.
Don't tell me you haven't noticed?
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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:13 pm

tigertony wrote:
beesrus wrote:
Very Happy  Somebody had to say it AKA.
Let's be honest, the old geezas on here, Zyph the crank wordsmith that strings 3 words together on a daily basis, Tone the RN Drone, the Village changeling and HS2 Greaser, are classic blue fodder, and gleefully admit as much while extolling Brent's methods. I get bored with their defence of the indefensible. I chucked out my television years ago to get away from such blabbing. Harbouring these pasoti fugitives ( Zyph excluded ) destroys this forum, but then, hey, that's reasonably free forums for you. It won't be long before it becomes de rigeur to boycott certain social media, as it's imploding in it's present form.
And sadly all at a club that had Michael Foot as a director, who actually resigned out of principle, when he recognised what was going on with the last bunch of property speculators in a publicly purchased and owned park. Such speculators always need boots on the ground, hence the pasoti "paras" pig  pig You couldn't make it up.
I try to avoid discussing JB and his suits and certainly don't go around praising them. I can take him or leave him. At least ''blue fodder'' supported Armed Forces Day unlike Corbyn the Glastonbury Geezer. Pretty poor show really! Not sure how occupations, past or present, have any relevance to this discussion but if it makes you feel better then so be it.
Has Carey gone yet?

Corbyn went to Gastonbury; HRH The Queen went to Royal Ascot.

Neither infers anything about their respective supports for Armed Forces Day.

Besides I stood in for Jezza on The Hoe.

Go Toyah!

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Graiser

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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:08 pm

beesrus wrote:
Very Happy  Somebody had to say it AKA.
Let's be honest, the old geezas on here, Zyph the crank wordsmith that strings 3 words together on a daily basis, Tone the RN Drone, the Village changeling and HS2 Greaser, are classic blue fodder, and gleefully admit as much while extolling Brent's methods. I get bored with their defence of the indefensible. I chucked out my television years ago to get away from such blabbing. Harbouring these pasoti fugitives ( Zyph excluded ) destroys this forum, but then, hey, that's reasonably free forums for you. It won't be long before it becomes de rigeur to boycott certain social media, as it's imploding in it's present form.
And sadly all at a club that had Michael Foot as a director, who actually resigned out of principle, when he recognised what was going on with the last bunch of property speculators in a publicly purchased and owned park. Such speculators always need boots on the ground, hence the pasoti "paras" pig  pig You couldn't make it up.

Typical you, this thread has turned into another socialist tirade from yourself.
I'm no political animal and I won't take your bait, however just to be clear.

Never ever voted Tory and never will.
I'm a disenfranchised labour voter.
I've no feelings one way or the other towards Brent and I will chastise him if I think it's deserved, equally I will praise him if it's deserved, although that's quite rarity.
I enjoy free speech and will continue to voice an opinion whether it tows the ATD line or not.
"PASOTi fugitives", well most of us are, in fact there are many ATD posters who, it would appear make frequent trips to the other side, maybe they still have a yearning, I don't.

In regard to the OP, there's been plenty of chatter about 12 month contacts etc, but nobody has yet explained how the club should negotiate a new contract with a player, 6 months before his current contract ends, when that player refuses to discuss it.
Lots of rhetoric as usual but still no solutions.

Hopefully we'll shortly know for definite about Carey as it's about time the club started to force the issue.
Have a nice rest of the day.
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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:08 pm

Seriously can't we move this politics bullshit else where ?
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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:11 pm

Still no news on Carey then, I think he will surprise us all and sign up for another year.

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PostSubject: Re: Carey gone? (Now Staying)   Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:25 pm

Graiser wrote:
.
Lots of rhetoric as usual but still no solutions.
Nonsense, I have plenty of solutions. If you can't keep your staff, look at your past relationship with them, and offer them the going rate, and a bit more security on top compared to the opposition.
It's Brent who has no solutions, and in fact, the philosophy he represents is a bankrupt one where there are no alternatives to the law of the market. Rubbish, and in fact the goonish loyalty of pro football fans proves that point. I actually believe in the concept of building a club, then build one, a club of people, not inter related property schemes. Did no one understand why Holloway was so pissed off with Stapes and his property plans ?

And as pointless politics seems to be de rigeur this Summer, life or whatever, is no longer about left and right, labour and tory, and hasn't been for many many years, although the latest old geeza on the block shows promise, even though I ordinarily vote for another Westminster slew. My guess and beak smells "politics" has gone into the field of putin/trump/erdogan esque authoritarians against democratic western liberals, if you want my overly crude view on such matters. There's a budding Erdogan on every street corner and pub bar in Plymouth.

And hey. Jethro, I'm not interested in your view point on life or forum moderation, and that might be a view shared by many on here.. Never have been, but it takes all sorts. Good luck..
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