Brexit - Leave or Remain poll

Amsterdamage wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Why distance ourselves from the biggest trading block on the planet? What is the sense in that?

How can we distance ourselves from France? They are our neighbours. We import more wine, cheese and Renaults, citroens and peugeots than we export other stuff so it's more in Frances interest to stay on side with us than the other way round, the ball really is in our court when it comes to trading.

This is another good example of how skewed the while EU argument, in fact argument of life, has become.
It's not up to "us" as oik consuming units to worry about how the producers are going to cope with trade tariffs or not. And as for what used to be called the balance of payments, no one has given a monkeys about that since the 1970s, ever since Thatcher started on her lunatic cowboy economic crusade, where micro losses were given as reasons to close workplaces. She seemed to think it was all irrelevant.
As it happens, I quite like French brie, and many other European foodstuffs, along with many other products. I, as a consumer do not want to be paying more for what I buy from Europe. Protectionism and tariffs are a two way street. Let the employers worry about where their next crust is coming from, and let us customers worry about the price we pay for their products. Employers moan more than farmers these days, and it's all a load of bull to lever a bigger slice of the cake. They're always one contract away from Armageddon. It's laughable. These arguments get turned on their head depending on what outcome is required.

So, has anyone had their views on Brexit changed at all by the last 22 pages?

i aint a bleddy clue nowt new there though

I was thinking of putting up a new poll to see if anyone had changed their minds a few days before the vote.

Started out undecided but am now for leaving.

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

I was thinking of putting up a new poll to see if anyone had changed their minds a few days before the vote.

Far be it for me to poke my oar in but Shirley it would be better to wait and re-run it the week before the vote itself?

That then might give some idea as to how the campaign out in the real world has transpired rather than the effects of a somewhat insular debate on here.

Czarcasm wrote:

So, has anyone had their views on Brexit changed at all by the last 22 pages?

No.........but it's been a scream at times

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Amsterdamage wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Why distance ourselves from the biggest trading block on the planet? What is the sense in that?

How can we distance ourselves from France? They are our neighbours. We import more wine, cheese and Renaults, citroens and peugeots than we export other stuff so it's more in Frances interest to stay on side with us than the other way round, the ball really is in our court when it comes to trading.

Deep breath.

Here's a post you made on this page only a few moments ago with the relevant passage highlighted.

Quote :

I personally think its wrong to have a 5% charge on tampons imposed on us by Europe. I don't like being told what to do, one day it's tampons the next day a bit more on something else and there's feck all you can do about it. What's more with the Eurozone economy shrinking and the ECB announcing a negative interest rate of 0.4% (pay to put your money in the bank wtf?) shouldn't we be distancing ourselves from this mess? Wait until Turkey get what they want from the migrant dealing and the Eurozone marketplace will be weakened even further. Thankfully we didn't listen to the remainers when they were telling us how we'd be mad not to ditch the pound and adopt the euro. Where's my BNP flag?

In one breath you demand that we distance ourselves and in the next proclaim it to be impossible to do so!

Can you please decide the point you're trying to argue because you've lost me on this one.

Come of Frank you're smarter than that. I want to distance myself from the costly beaurocrats of the European parliament and their failing project. Their economy is shrinking, output is falling and it's feckin costly. Luckily we ignored all the scaremongerers over joining the euro and have our own currency and haven't been dragged into that nightmare. Don't forget the ECB have just introduced a negative interest rate lol. How healthy is it to pay the bank to look after your wedge? As for the market it's there and we'll keep it because they sell us more than we sell them, it's business and Biro needs his cheese. And don't give me all this ten years to sort out trade deals bullcrap, we want Turkey to farm migrants and within what, 24 or 48 hrs the deal is done, simple when you want to.

Another nail in the coffin of the remainers.
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I wonder how this mornings carnage in Brussels will make people consider just exactly what the security benefits of being in the EUSSR might actually be.

This will come to the UK and will most likely occur in London, the free movement of people, bombs and assault rifles right up to the UK border does not help with keeping us secure, an open door for the thousands of fully trained up jihadists pouring into Greece and Italy is a huge mistake, too many people will only realise this when blood is running in the streets of our capitol.

Brexit is not about isolation, it is about keeping our own safe and making Britain strong so that once again we can help our friends in Europe.

To me it is all about fear, the fear of being ruled by the incompetent and corrupt politicians and their thousands of overpaid minions in Brussels. Ok, so our own are pretty corrupt and incompetent, but every five years we get the chance to vote them feckers out, the EUSSR Commission is appointed by their corrupt mates and we can do nothing to stop them.

Sick animals. RIP to the innocent.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

I wonder how this mornings carnage in Brussels will make people consider just exactly what the security benefits of being in the EUSSR might actually be.

This will come to the UK and will most likely occur in London, the free movement of people, bombs and assault rifles right up to the UK border does not help with keeping us secure, an open door for the thousands of fully trained up jihadists pouring into Greece and Italy is a huge mistake, too many people will only realise this when blood is running in the streets of our capitol.

Brexit is not about isolation, it is about keeping our own safe and making Britain strong so that once again we can help our friends in Europe.

To me it is all about fear, the fear of being ruled by the incompetent and corrupt politicians and their thousands of overpaid minions in Brussels. Ok, so our own are pretty corrupt and incompetent, but every five years we get the chance to vote them feckers out, the EUSSR Commission is appointed by their corrupt mates and we can do nothing to stop them.

My heart is crying out to tell you you're wrong.

Yet my head is telling me you're right.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

I wonder how this mornings carnage in Brussels will make people consider just exactly what the security benefits of being in the EUSSR might actually be.

This will come to the UK and will most likely occur in London, the free movement of people, bombs and assault rifles right up to the UK border does not help with keeping us secure, an open door for the thousands of fully trained up jihadists pouring into Greece and Italy is a huge mistake, too many people will only realise this when blood is running in the streets of our capitol.

Brexit is not about isolation, it is about keeping our own safe and making Britain strong so that once again we can help our friends in Europe.

To me it is all about fear, the fear of being ruled by the incompetent and corrupt politicians and their thousands of overpaid minions in Brussels. Ok, so our own are pretty corrupt and incompetent, but every five years we get the chance to vote them feckers out, the EUSSR Commission is appointed by their corrupt mates and we can do nothing to stop them.

My heart is crying out to tell you you're wrong.

Yet my head is telling me you're right.

He's spot on. He's always spot on, despite what the appeasers say.

Lord Melbury wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

I wonder how this mornings carnage in Brussels will make people consider just exactly what the security benefits of being in the EUSSR might actually be.

This will come to the UK and will most likely occur in London, the free movement of people, bombs and assault rifles right up to the UK border does not help with keeping us secure, an open door for the thousands of fully trained up jihadists pouring into Greece and Italy is a huge mistake, too many people will only realise this when blood is running in the streets of our capitol.

Brexit is not about isolation, it is about keeping our own safe and making Britain strong so that once again we can help our friends in Europe.

To me it is all about fear, the fear of being ruled by the incompetent and corrupt politicians and their thousands of overpaid minions in Brussels. Ok, so our own are pretty corrupt and incompetent, but every five years we get the chance to vote them feckers out, the EUSSR Commission is appointed by their corrupt mates and we can do nothing to stop them.

My heart is crying out to tell you you're wrong.

Yet my head is telling me you're right.

He's spot on. He's always spot on, despite what the appeasers say.

Any chance of you arranging for my coin collection to be valued your lordship?

Greenskin wrote:

Lord Melbury wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

I wonder how this mornings carnage in Brussels will make people consider just exactly what the security benefits of being in the EUSSR might actually be.

This will come to the UK and will most likely occur in London, the free movement of people, bombs and assault rifles right up to the UK border does not help with keeping us secure, an open door for the thousands of fully trained up jihadists pouring into Greece and Italy is a huge mistake, too many people will only realise this when blood is running in the streets of our capitol.

Brexit is not about isolation, it is about keeping our own safe and making Britain strong so that once again we can help our friends in Europe.

To me it is all about fear, the fear of being ruled by the incompetent and corrupt politicians and their thousands of overpaid minions in Brussels. Ok, so our own are pretty corrupt and incompetent, but every five years we get the chance to vote them feckers out, the EUSSR Commission is appointed by their corrupt mates and we can do nothing to stop them.

My heart is crying out to tell you you're wrong.

Yet my head is telling me you're right.

He's spot on. He's always spot on, despite what the appeasers say.

Any chance of you arranging for my coin collection to be valued your lordship?

Lord Tisdale wrote:

I wonder how this mornings carnage in Brussels will make people consider just exactly what the security benefits of being in the EUSSR might actually be.

This will come to the UK and will most likely occur in London, the free movement of people, bombs and assault rifles right up to the UK border does not help with keeping us secure, an open door for the thousands of fully trained up jihadists pouring into Greece and Italy is a huge mistake, too many people will only realise this when blood is running in the streets of our capitol.

Brexit is not about isolation, it is about keeping our own safe and making Britain strong so that once again we can help our friends in Europe.

To me it is all about fear, the fear of being ruled by the incompetent and corrupt politicians and their thousands of overpaid minions in Brussels. Ok, so our own are pretty corrupt and incompetent, but every five years we get the chance to vote them feckers out, the EUSSR Commission is appointed by their corrupt mates and we can do nothing to stop them.

I've mentioned this on another thread but it's worth doing again, if only to challenge your ignorant bigotry.

What was the nationality of the 7/7 bombers?

What was the nationality of the Paris attackers?

Immigrants and refugees are not the problem.

Homeslice wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

I wonder how this mornings carnage in Brussels will make people consider just exactly what the security benefits of being in the EUSSR might actually be.

This will come to the UK and will most likely occur in London, the free movement of people, bombs and assault rifles right up to the UK border does not help with keeping us secure, an open door for the thousands of fully trained up jihadists pouring into Greece and Italy is a huge mistake, too many people will only realise this when blood is running in the streets of our capitol.

Brexit is not about isolation, it is about keeping our own safe and making Britain strong so that once again we can help our friends in Europe.

To me it is all about fear, the fear of being ruled by the incompetent and corrupt politicians and their thousands of overpaid minions in Brussels. Ok, so our own are pretty corrupt and incompetent, but every five years we get the chance to vote them feckers out, the EUSSR Commission is appointed by their corrupt mates and we can do nothing to stop them.

I've mentioned this on another thread but it's worth doing again, if only to challenge your ignorant bigotry.

What was the nationality of the 7/7 bombers?

What was the nationality of the Paris attackers?

Immigrants and refugees are not the problem.

Durr, hello!

All of these terrorists were muslims, that isn't "bigotry" it is a fact.

If you really don't believe that allowing thousands of fully trained up Jihadists to skulk in to Europe under cover of the hundreds of thousands of illegal, economic migrants is likely to increase the risks of similar events all over Europe, including the UK, then you must be a bit of a muppet.

Food for thought here.

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Or not. As the case may be.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Food for thought here.

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Or not. As the case may be.

All very interesting stuff, philosophically and morally speaking. No borders, and ultimately let's have a world government.

Sounds good, dunnit.

Another good idea by the BBC. I love their philosophy programs on the radio, and Melvyn Bragg has done a great job too over the years. I particularly like the rather less strict, more accessible Philosophers' Arms. Catch it if you can. Philosophy should not be the preserve for educated elites.... far too many rules based on classical old school academic discipline, that often ends in academics' roundabout.
The idea of free flow of everything sounds great, but is just another form of unbridled free market economics, the law of the jungle. Let's all move to starboard at the sametime. And of course, it only benefits those who have money, or can afford to leave their capital assets/resources behind. I prefer planned economies and communities.

Anything and everything in the universe is limited to an optimum size by a variety of external and internal forces, we and governments are the same, bigger is not always better with the European experiment being a great case in point. A load of disparate and quite different countries all thrown together but being governed by themselves and a central overlapping really big pariament. What is really strange is that although they tried a single currency (apart from us who ducked out praise be) they didn't think that everyone going in at different levels with some winners and some losers would result in the chaos that you see now. Europe may have worked if everybody just scrapped the old systems and exchange rates and dived into the euro but would only work if interest rates, oil and commodity prices were the same for everybody across Europe without exceptions. Europe will never work properly whist run on strict capitalist principles.

I don't think that strict capitalist principles work at all. Not for everybody anyway. The system may be seen to be fine for Europe and America or wherever but it's not so great for Bangladesh, Malawi or Afghanistan or wherever the latest famine, usually somewhere in Africa, occurs. Capitalism is wonderful for the haves and dreadful for the have nots both locally and globally. There needs to be control to ensure fair competition.

This where the free market fails. If there are no restrictions then eventually one mega-corp will result as it will either drive its competitors under or merge in some way with others to perpetuate itself. Completely disregarding borders as it goes.

Maybe, ultimately, all economic systems are guaranteed to fail?

Amsterdamage wrote:

Europe will never work properly whist run on strict capitalist principles.

Nor will an independent UK Plc. It's a bankrupt philosophy in macro sustainable terms for the nation concerned.

I think it was Les who reckoned I actually had a favourite in this two horse race. But I actually don't. As with Westminster elections, there isn't a cigarette paper between the referendum choice of in or out. Think I'll sit on the fence, draw some pictures of the protagonists, and enjoy the Summer.

Amen to the last bit LB, let's hope we get a decent summer, there's no better place to spend it than on the Devon/Cornwall coast imo. Chillax mate, smoke some pilchard in your potting shed, dig some weeds on your allotment, enjoy the long sunny days and have some fun. Alternatively you could dig some pilchards into your allotment, smoke some weed in your potting shed, enjoy the long sunny days and have even more fun

I see that Jeremy cnut has said the NHS would be worse out of Europe, the same NHS that now takes over 3 weeks to perform a life saving emergency op. to remove a brain tumour.