More Of The Same From Brent.

Czarcasm wrote:

Newells attempts at trumpeting this 4k donation has barely raised a flicker of interest even amongst Pyongyangs finest. Two "well done" responses there, one of them coming from the ever-reliable dozy dunlop.

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The masses may well be starting to see Brent for the charity-seeking shyster that he really is.

If I were one of the regulars on those Cornish coaches, and I'd just seen the profits from them being handed to a multi-millionaire because he's too tight to fork out himself, I'd be mightily peeved.

I think the masses are well aware now, the only time newell gets recognition these days is from ATD.

IsThatHHP? wrote:

Brent said,

"Part of the monies owed to 'quite a large number' of former players have been repaid, but there is still some way to go"

Q: How much money has been repaid to how many players and how much is still owed ?

"Additional revenue generated by the new grandstand which is to be built at Home Park will assist with the repayment process when it comes to the football creditor debt"

Q: How much additional revenue is to be generated by the new ministand ?

"The football creditor debt was at £2.8 million, I believe, at the time we bought the club. We have paid part of that off"

Q: How much is a part ?


TRANSPARENCY, TRANSPARENCY, TRANSPARENCY ?

I've no idea why Brent was being so vague because the debt owed to football creditors coming out of administration is all laid out in the various documents published at the time with clarification of some points in press reports.

The staff and players were collectively owed £3.3m. The agreement was to pay 15% up front and then 7% per year for 5 years with the remaining 50% due at the end of the 5 years. We're about 2 years in so this would have decreased by about 29% so far. Around £2m will be payable, to somebody or somebodies, at the end of the 5 years in a balloon payment. The commitment to this schedule was logged with the Football League when the club's Golden Share was returned.

A similar deal was done for the PAST&DT £300,000.

Other Football Creditors were owed £388,289 but no schedule for paying it off was ever published. It is reasonable to assume that the repayment schedule for this is also similar.

Chapter and verse here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Altogether between £5m and £6m must have been carried forward , best estimate is £5.2m in one way or another (reduced by the £1.6m the council paid for Home park, presumably). Argyle has been running at an unspecified loss since then and so that residual £3.6m debt must have grown.

At a recent PASB meeting it was stated Argyle is still around £5m in debt.

"This season the current debt is £5million and James Brent confirmed that the Club will not be standing on its own two feet this season (financially)..."

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The money raised by the GTs has been loaned to the club to accelerate the repayment of wages owed but it is not secured, as far as has ever been publicised, and will have to be paid back at some point in some way. In the past it was suggested that Brent would pay the money into unspecified "community projects".

All of this is on the record somewhere or other.

That's a good brief synopsis of Argyle's debt SFD

I've just read the article and Brent says the Football Creditor Debt has been paid off. Obviously the 5 year repayment plan wasn't an acceptable option as far as the FL was concerned.

The PAST&DT debt: Green Pilgrim Ltd (which later became PAFC as we now know it) would re-pay the £330,000 loan quarterly at an interest rate of 1.75%, over a period of five years.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I've just read the article and Brent says the Football Creditor Debt has been paid off. Obviously the 5 year repayment plan wasn't an acceptable option as far as the FL was concerned.

Quote from the herald...."Outstanding payments to other clubs were settled by Brent when he took over at Argyle, as required by the Football League.
He said: "The rest of the (football creditor) debt was owed to previous players, but over quite a period of time"


This is very vague, i'm reading it as : what we owed to other clubs has been paid, what we owed to previous players is still being paid off.
It seems to me that nothing is ever explained in a clear and concise manner so that the total size of the club's debt can be calculated by us pesky fans.

JB says income coming into the club will increase significantly over the next couple of years. Forgive me for being ever so pedantic but how? It's going to take 12 months to build the new stand. There will be no revenue from the existing stand once it has been flattened and they've already lost the revenue from the Far Post club.

Once the stand is built is the club really expecting to fill all the corporate space immediately, every game? Especially if the club is still in division 4. Then the conference / banquet space has to start attracting customers outside match days. Just because it's been built doesn't automatically mean people will be queuing up to use it especially considering there will still be a big building site on it's doorstep.

I'm no mathematician but without the club explaining how income is going to increase in the next couple of years, I fail to see how that statement holds any water.

Richard Blight wrote:

JB says income coming into the club will increase significantly over the next couple of years. Forgive me for being ever so pedantic but how? It's going to take 12 months to build the new stand. There will be no revenue from the existing stand once it has been flattened and they've already lost the revenue from the Far Post club.

Once the stand is built is the club really expecting to fill all the corporate space immediately, every game? Especially if the club is still in division 4. Then the conference / banquet space has to start attracting customers outside match days. Just because it's been built doesn't automatically mean people will be queuing up to use it especially considering there will still be a big building site on it's doorstep.

I'm no mathematician but without the club explaining how income is going to increase in the next couple of years, I fail to see how that statement holds any water.

Just out of interest Richard, I think you were a member of the fpc weren't you? How much income did it generate per season? Do you have an idea?

I don't know really, especially once the lounge half of the club was closed a couple of seasons ago.( Beyond repair.) It must have been a significant figure though, for the club to take the club ' in house' when it did a few years ago. Dunford obviously thought it was worth doing because he didn't half piss some people off when he did it. The money in the clubs accounts that was returned to members paid for my season ticket that year. It would be interesting to know what sort of turnover the club had when we were in the championship and membership was closed. I doubt the turnover was very high the last season or so. The place was falling down etc.

Mrrapson wrote:

Richard Blight wrote:

JB says income coming into the club will increase significantly over the next couple of years. Forgive me for being ever so pedantic but how? It's going to take 12 months to build the new stand. There will be no revenue from the existing stand once it has been flattened and they've already lost the revenue from the Far Post club.

Once the stand is built is the club really expecting to fill all the corporate space immediately, every game? Especially if the club is still in division 4. Then the conference / banquet space has to start attracting customers outside match days. Just because it's been built doesn't automatically mean people will be queuing up to use it especially considering there will still be a big building site on it's doorstep.

I'm no mathematician but without the club explaining how income is going to increase in the next couple of years, I fail to see how that statement holds any water.

Just out of interest Richard, I think you were a member of the fpc weren't you? How much income did it generate per season? Do you have an idea?

I'd guess approximately none if you equate income to profit. It is a members' club and not a business in the normal sense. Social clubs are only allowed to make a negligible profit by law and any excess beyond that has to be reinvested on behalf of the members. In social clubs this usually manifests itself as cheap beer.

If you mean income as turnover that's a different kettle of fish.

Mind you there's no reason you shouldn't confuse the two because James Brent often does. It's obviously a tricky concept to get one's head around.

SFD,

the Far Post stopped being a social club belonging to it's members while we were in the championship. PAFC took over the running of it, so there must have been some money to be made there.

Not quibbling about the FPC money (I wouldn't know how to), but Dunford had a bit of a thing for taking things run by the fans into club 'ownership'. I got the impression when I talked to him that he was against fans running things because of the lack of control, and perhaps because it seemed amateurish. I always assumed that was the stance on the FPC, too.

Richard Blight wrote:

SFD,

the Far Post stopped being a social club belonging to it's members while we were in the championship. PAFC took over the running of it, so there must have been some money to be made there.

Presumably the profit that used to pay for its upkeep was diverted elsewhere in the last few years resulting in it becoming so run down.

To be honest anything that generated actual cash money probably kept the club going through the administration almost as much as the unpaid staff did. Without the FPC there might not have been an Argyle to be saved.

Richard Blight wrote:

I don't know really, especially once the lounge half of the club was closed a couple of seasons ago.( Beyond repair.) It must have been a significant figure though, for the club to take the club ' in house' when it did a few years ago.  Dunford obviously thought it was worth doing because he didn't half piss some people off when he did it. The money in the clubs accounts that was returned to members paid for my season ticket that year. It would be interesting to know what sort of turnover the club had when we were in the championship and membership was closed. I doubt the turnover was very high the last season or so. The place was falling down etc.

Cheers mate, I just wandered because it kind of my the debate for a decent bar/members club even stronger in the new development of it generated say half a mil a year or something.

It was obviously self sufficient. Does someone like Brent have an ounce of decency to put a supporters bar in because it is the right thing to do?

I think I know the answer  

Pokesdown wrote:

It was obviously self sufficient. Does someone like Brent have an ounce of decency to put a supporters bar in because it is the right thing to do?

I think I know the answer  

Oh you cynic Pokey!! Hahahahah, hope you are fine and we need to look out for a nice away game to meet up for that beer, cheers!!  

Peggy wrote:

Not quibbling about the FPC money (I wouldn't know how to), but Dunford had a bit of a thing for taking things run by the fans into club 'ownership'. I got the impression when I talked to him that he was against fans running things because of the lack of control, and perhaps because it seemed amateurish. I always assumed that was the stance on the FPC, too.

Well.......with that sort of attitude it is no surprise that Brent didn't want to give him a job.

Maybe the hotel will have a suitable area .

'Thank you James', I hear them bleat.

Either that or home fixtures will become 'Green Army Peri Peri' days at Nandos.

The school [ you know, one of those nice white buildings inside the ground] is bound to have a 'special' area, overlooking the pitch, where those who have grovelled for their place at the Theatre of Schemes , can gather.

Czarcasm wrote:

Newells attempts at trumpeting this 4k donation has barely raised a flicker of interest even amongst Pyongyangs finest. Two "well done" responses there, one of them coming from the ever-reliable dozy dunlop.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The masses may well be starting to see Brent for the charity-seeking shyster that he really is.

If I were one of the regulars on those Cornish coaches, and I'd just seen the profits from them being handed to a multi-millionaire because he's too tight to fork out himself, I'd be mightily peeved.

When I first saw the photo I thought that Matt had had his leg amputated! That would explain a lot.

Does our esteemed local newspaper ever ask searching questions of Mr Brent or do they just print carefully worded press releases ? Journalism of the highest order.

Tringreen wrote:

Maybe the hotel will have a suitable  area .

'Thank you James', I hear them bleat.

Either that or home fixtures will become 'Green Army Peri Peri' days at Nandos.

The school  [ you know, one of those nice white buildings inside the ground] is bound to have a 'special' area, overlooking the pitch, where those who have grovelled for their place at the Theatre of Schemes , can gather.

Can't say ive noticed that turn of phrase so far - very good, Tringy!!

In order to let the commercial units there will probally be an agreement that the club will not compete for custom

Now I've limited my posts to a lot of trivial things in the past but having just seen that a "donation" has paid for what in my opinion is a bit of kit most clubs would have as standard shows me that we are becoming an almost semi pro club. I mean its £4k, if we still had a budget to sign new players and as yet we haven't, that would be the equivalent to 1 or 2 weeks wages. I'd say it cost a lot more for a set of architects drawings for the new ice rink! If our club budget after 2 months of the season before we bring in at least 1 or 2 more loan signings we desperately need can't stretch to a piece of medical kit that my son's academy Physio probably has then god help us with the quality of player we can now afford.

in a nutshell daz, in a nutshell.


even chesapeake rovers could probably afford the equipment but PAFC cant !

Of course Brent wants the club debt free. He can make more money when he sells it and walks away.

And 'fans' will have contributed to paying off those debts.

Un-feckin-believable.