Who stays/Who goes

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

Graiser wrote:

Only surprise for me is Spencer, believe he's under rated, but we have to assume DA knows best

.

Agree with that, thought Spencer looked decent. Surprised also at Connor Smith who I thought could have done a job in L1. The rest were pretty much expected.

Smith was certainly far better than Donaldson!

I suppose the fact that both were outside the 1st XI for much of the season suggests that they were what is known as "squad players" for us. Having gone up a division the old squad players find themselves a level higher and if they couldn't cut it at L2 1st XI level then why should they at L1 1st XI level?

He was unfortunate to have the injury when he broke into the team and David Fox who was one of our best players alongside Songo'o in the middle which was a good partnership. We are going to need a strong squad next season not just a strong 11 so perhaps him leaving was for the best but i feel he could have done a job certainly coming off the bench as he was a different type of central midfielder. I'm not a big fan of too many clones in one squad.

charleymouse wrote:

My sideline would be even more distant then! Although Mr B didn't use the word permanently about the 9 men behind the ball and Argyle's 71 goals was the second lowest of the 7 sides getting automatic promotion in the FL this season, so maybe there's something in what he's saying.

And whatever you think of the phrase itself, the meaning behind a "self appointed bishop" seems clear enough to me.

Different ways of looking at things I suppose. You could transpose the figures and say that Argyle were the fifth highest scorers in the divisions and therefore the 19 other teams who scored less goals must have put at least 9 men behind the ball. Look, there's no denying that Argyle were by and large a counter attacking team with the emphasis on defending and keeping clean sheets as a first principle, a modus operandi which is and always was common in football, but to judge Miller and Sawyer on the presumption that their contribution was solely due to the tactical system is ill informed nonsense. To be perfectly blunt, they aren't two of the best full backs at HP in my time of support-people like Sullivan, Nisbet, Poole, Patterson, Connolly, Bhasera etc were far better-but they were solid enough and it only needs a look at the late season goals against Doncaster, Portsmouth and Crewe to confirm that their efforts were not solely confined to defensive duties.

beesrus wrote:

Greenskin wrote:

charleymouse wrote:

Aren't all of our views from the sidelines?

Depends which sideline is in question for this particular debate. The sideline that Mr Beesrus is expressing his opinion on would appear to be based on the evidence of a televised game at Liverpool, not on the 46 games which he didn't watch. It must take be a rather opaque thought process to conclude that a particular team scores 70-odd goals whilst permanently keeping 9 men behind the ball but everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how it may be formed. A bit like describing someone as a "self appointed bishop" really.

I've seen a lot more than that, and my family/friends are season ticket holders who virtually all tell the same sorry tale. The most defensive set up in our life time, and we've had an exponent or two of the theory of entertainment free football in the likes of Pulis and Kemp. You're living in dreamland.

So which games did you attend then? Thought you were boycotting the club on a matter of principle.

Greenskin wrote:

charleymouse wrote:

My sideline would be even more distant then! Although Mr B didn't use the word permanently about the 9 men behind the ball and Argyle's 71 goals was the second lowest of the 7 sides getting automatic promotion in the FL this season, so maybe there's something in what he's saying.

And whatever you think of the phrase itself, the meaning behind a "self appointed bishop" seems clear enough to me.

Different ways of looking at things I suppose. You could transpose the figures and say that Argyle were the fifth highest scorers in the divisions and therefore the 19 other teams who scored less goals must have put at least 9 men behind the ball. Look, there's no denying that Argyle were by and large a counter attacking team with the emphasis on defending and keeping clean sheets as a first principle, a modus operandi which is and always was common in football, but to judge Miller and Sawyer on the presumption that their contribution was solely due to the tactical system is ill informed nonsense. To be perfectly blunt, they aren't two of the best full backs at HP in my time of support-people like Sullivan, Nisbet, Poole, Patterson, Connolly, Bhasera etc were far better-but they were solid enough and it only needs a look at the late season goals against Doncaster, Portsmouth and Crewe to confirm that their efforts were not solely confined to defensive duties.

From my distant sideline that looks like quite a convincing case and fair-minded assessment!

Greenskin wrote:

charleymouse wrote:

My sideline would be even more distant then! Although Mr B didn't use the word permanently about the 9 men behind the ball and Argyle's 71 goals was the second lowest of the 7 sides getting automatic promotion in the FL this season, so maybe there's something in what he's saying.

And whatever you think of the phrase itself, the meaning behind a "self appointed bishop" seems clear enough to me.

Different ways of looking at things I suppose. You could transpose the figures and say that Argyle were the fifth highest scorers in the divisions and therefore the 19 other teams who scored less goals must have put at least 9 men behind the ball. Look, there's no denying that Argyle were by and large a counter attacking team with the emphasis on defending and keeping clean sheets as a first principle, a modus operandi which is and always was common in football, but to judge Miller and Sawyer on the presumption that their contribution was solely due to the tactical system is ill informed nonsense. To be perfectly blunt, they aren't two of the best full backs at HP in my time of support-people like Sullivan, Nisbet, Poole, Patterson, Connolly, Bhasera etc were far better-but they were solid enough and it only needs a look at the late season goals against Doncaster, Portsmouth and Crewe to confirm that their efforts were not solely confined to defensive duties.

Absolutely. Only 2 teams let in less goals than us so our defence over the season was pretty solid. I suspect Miller (73% league games) and Sawyer (50%) would have played more but for injury. Once they were fit they were straight back in the team.

tigertony wrote:

Greenskin wrote:

charleymouse wrote:

My sideline would be even more distant then! Although Mr B didn't use the word permanently about the 9 men behind the ball and Argyle's 71 goals was the second lowest of the 7 sides getting automatic promotion in the FL this season, so maybe there's something in what he's saying.

And whatever you think of the phrase itself, the meaning behind a "self appointed bishop" seems clear enough to me.

Different ways of looking at things I suppose. You could transpose the figures and say that Argyle were the fifth highest scorers in the divisions and therefore the 19 other teams who scored less goals must have put at least 9 men behind the ball. Look, there's no denying that Argyle were by and large a counter attacking team with the emphasis on defending and keeping clean sheets as a first principle, a modus operandi which is and always was common in football, but to judge Miller and Sawyer on the presumption that their contribution was solely due to the tactical system is ill informed nonsense. To be perfectly blunt, they aren't two of the best full backs at HP in my time of support-people like Sullivan, Nisbet, Poole, Patterson, Connolly, Bhasera etc were far better-but they were solid enough and it only needs a look at the late season goals against Doncaster, Portsmouth and Crewe to confirm that their efforts were not solely confined to defensive duties.

Absolutely. Only 2 teams let in less goals than us so our defence over the season was pretty solid. I suspect Miller (73% league games) and Sawyer (50%) would have played more but for injury. Once they were fit they were straight back in the team.

No-one's disputing the solidity of the defence. In fact that's the one thing that beesrus, greenskin and I have all agreed on from the off: the defence was solid, whether due to the tactical system or the personnel. The discussion was more about the attacking contributions of the fullbacks.

akagreengull wrote:

VillageGreen wrote:

Adams looking at signing at least nine new players for next season. I expect he has a list of names and targets who can do a job in League One. If Carey does leave in the next couple of weeks or so, Adams will find a suitable replacement who can be in the same mould as Carey (or better ?). I completely trust Adams, he knows what he is doing. I expect one or two of the new signings will be complete unknowns to us all.

I understand he is taking in three games in the next few days. Not sure if that is scouting for players or he just wants to watch some Scottish footie as a break.

Maybe Lord Jim is dipping into the million pound piggy bank after all.

Yeah, right.

akagreengull wrote:

Three to one on we sign a current or former Ross County player sometime soon.

Over the road there, they are having a ball on their rumours page with Scottish links.

If a player from North of the border attracts the attention of Adams and fancies a move to League One, good on them.

harvetheslayer wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

harvetheslayer wrote:

Not too many surprises but slightly was on Fox, expected Millar to be retained Adams obviously rates him, rest pretty much agree albeit not entirely on Slew.
Felt he was playing very well until Kennedy was brought in

Fox? Why?

Rarely scores, aging reminds me of Ray Wilkins great at going sideways. Obviously Adams rates him good enough for league 1

Wilkins earns 80 odd england caps and played for Milan. Besides the point Fox is a metronome someone that doesn't waste the ball, I thought he might have been a reasonable punt for POTS

I notice that Jimmy Spencer has joined Steve Evans at Mansfield (If Evans is there next season - wanted by Swindon)

Hugh Watt wrote:

harvetheslayer wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

harvetheslayer wrote:

Not too many surprises but slightly was on Fox, expected Millar to be retained Adams obviously rates him, rest pretty much agree albeit not entirely on Slew.
Felt he was playing very well until Kennedy was brought in

Fox? Why?

Rarely scores, aging reminds me of Ray Wilkins great at going sideways. Obviously Adams rates him good enough for league 1

Wilkins earns 80 odd england caps and played for Milan. Besides the point Fox is a metronome someone that doesn't waste the ball, I thought he might have been a reasonable punt for POTS

Fox was one of our best players. very consistent and good passer of the ball from the middle something we lacked last season. Came 3rd in the POTS aswell. He will be important next season for us along with McCormick, Bradley and hopefully Carey.

Tbh i thought fox was average for most of the season it was only the last 3months of the season that he did exceptionally well & didnt put a foot wrong in my opinion

I think it takes a while before some players are appreciated for what they do. On arrival he might be picked but not stand out particularly - especially when he's not an attacking player or goalie.

After a while we see how the team plays when he's subbed or not picked or it dawns that so-and-so never stops running or rarely gives the ball away or drops in at right back at just the right moment or never seems to miss a tackle or intercepts passes at crucial moments or was the player who keeps on making that pass inside the full back that sets the winger free.

I think Fox is one of these and Threlkeld is another. It takes a while to warm to them but they are probably among the first name on the manager's teamsheet each week.