Shake up of leagues.Subject: FA to consider a new competition for Premier and Championship B teams..   

For the last time Tring, we know what you said, predicting our slide down the leagues was hardly being a visionary, it's what we always do FFS!

Iggy wrote:

For the last time Tring, we know what you said, predicting our slide down the leagues was hardly being a visionary, it's what we always do FFS!

'tis all in them thar Cypriot tea leaves.  

Iggy wrote:

For the last time Tring, we know what you said, predicting our slide down the leagues was hardly being a visionary, it's what we always do FFS!

Trust in Stapes........The organic model.......Year on Year Progress.......Enjoy the ride........

I must have imagined it then   

It wasn't the organic model that caused the problem - it was abandoning it.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

It wasn't the organic model that caused the problem - it was abandoning it.

When Holloway's team started to attract admirers there simply had to be cash backed ambition. The outclassed board were never interested in letting go. The talk after he left was that we could cash in, unearth a few more wee nuggets and rise again. Sturrock soon blew that out of the water and it was never really a likely solution anyway.

Reality wise, nothing much has changed in the Championship. Clubs without regular top flight history and solid fanbases of 20k invariably struggle. There are exceptions like Burnley of course.

We were already over-spending before Holloway left...

You may be right that more investment would have provided the final push necessary but it is also possible that you may not be right but we'll never know. And if we had failed then financial meltdown and subsequent disaster loomed large on the horizon.

Of course as things turned out we couldn't have made worse decisions and almost anything else would have been better.

A more sensible course of action would have included prudent financial planning that allowed for a relegation, no matter how unpalatable that may seem it is sensible and ought to be de riguer for any club, which did not inevitably lead to catastrophe.

Going down a division might be a bummer but it isn't the end of the world and we could have re-grouped and risen again with no shame attached - after all for most of our history we have yo-yoed between the 2nd and 3rd tiers so it would have been nothing new.

Instead of that we are now where we are: asset-stripped and potentially hamstrung in a way that makes both the organic impossible and the returns from an investment-led approach unrealisable for it to operate profitably.

Which couldn't be much worse.

Al least we still have a club even if it is a pale imitation of the one it once was and an even worse representation of what it could be.

Furrymff SFD.............but my biggest gripe is that Argyle remains the biggest city club/catchment area never to have made the top flight and unleash the true crowd potential/ increased loyal fanbase, as at Norwich,Southampton in the past and quite a few more now joining in more recent years.
The fact that we didn't even try, does my head in but it sort of encapsulates the mentality of the club and most of its fans that we'd settle for 2nd/3rd tier mediocrity and now, be glad we've still got a club.
Not for me dear boy but I understand that the cap fits for yourself and many others.

I didn't advocate the shit or bust tactics when we were in the CCC, I thought it were madness. I also never believed that there was a wealthy benefactor trying desperately to spunk his wad on Argyle. What I did believe was that we were a selling club, always have been. I realised that when we sold Trevor Francis when I was a kid (I believe I cried). I do believe that if the crowds had turned up we could have afforded to keep those players and we could have kicked on. The crowds didn't turn up (by turn up I mean like Norwich and Portsmouth who actually sell out all season not just the odd game) and our board were clearly out of their league. The demise was clear to see, I had seen it before, what could I do about it? Feck all. By saying that you had this kind of God like ability to see into the future maybe makes you feel wise but makes you look arrogant and supercillious.
As for the "ride" I enjoyed following Argyle all the way up until Todd, Gardner and Kagami rocked up, then a bitter taste started to form in my mouth and I started to get off the bus. Yes I used to take the piss out of you Tring but that doesn't mean that I lacked your almost supernatural powers of being able to see Argyle failing to achieve top flight status.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

We were already over-spending before Holloway left...

You may be right that more investment would have provided the final push necessary but it is also possible that you may not be right but we'll never know. And if we had failed then financial meltdown and subsequent disaster loomed large on the horizon.

Of course as things turned out we couldn't have made worse decisions and almost anything else would have been better.

A more sensible course of action would have included prudent financial planning that allowed for a relegation, no matter how unpalatable that may seem it is sensible and ought to be de riguer for any club, which did not inevitably lead to catastrophe.

Going down a division might be a bummer but it isn't the end of the world and we could have re-grouped and risen again with no shame attached - after all for most of our history we have yo-yoed between the 2nd and 3rd tiers so it would have been nothing new.

Instead of that we are now where we are: asset-stripped and potentially hamstrung in a way that makes both the organic impossible and the returns from an investment-led approach unrealisable for it to operate profitably.

Which couldn't be much worse.

Al least we still have a club even if it is a pale imitation of the one it once was and an even worse representation of what it could be.

He is right.Argyle were still being run on a structure and by types of people who were redundant in football terms from 1961 onwards.Took some people 45 years to realise the fact and it still hasn't sunk in with some.

Iggy wrote:

I didn't advocate the shit or bust tactics when we were in the CCC, I thought it were madness. I also never believed that there was a wealthy benefactor trying desperately to spunk his wad on Argyle. What I did believe was that we were a selling club, always have been. I realised that when we sold Trevor Francis when I was a kid (I believe I cried). I do believe that if the crowds had turned up we could have afforded to keep those players and we could have kicked on. The crowds didn't turn up (by turn up I mean like Norwich and Portsmouth who actually sell out all season not just the odd game) and our board were clearly out of their league. The demise was clear to see, I had seen it before, what could I do about it? Feck all. By saying that you had this kind of God like ability to see into the future maybe makes you feel wise but makes you look arrogant and supercillious.
As for the "ride" I enjoyed following Argyle all the way up until Todd, Gardner and Kagami rocked up, then a bitter taste started to form in my mouth and I started to get off the bus. Yes I used to take the piss out of you Tring but that doesn't mean that I lacked your almost supernatural powers of being able to see Argyle failing to achieve top flight status.

FFS Iggy !  The club's potential should have been promoted and backers/preferably a buyer found as soon as we returned to the Championship.The  fringe and his mates got greedy.Didn't want to let go. Had stars in their eyes like the rest of the Aviva faithful. Then blamed stay away janners.......... absolute bollox ! Ask Greenskin, he's got all the stats and despite repeating himself politely 100 times on the farm, the reality still fails to sink in.

ps Trevor Francis never played for Argyle................ had more sense.

And for the last time NORWICH SOUTHAMPTON POMPEY ALL HAVE AROUND 20K FANBASES FOR ONE REASON ONLY.

Clue: We've never played there !

Our attendance figures on return to the Championship were as good, if not better , than any other club without top flight exposure ie Cardiff, Swansea, Hull, Bristol City etc etc

Ps It's hard being a visionary when the herd can't even understand the basic realities of modern day football. It has nothing to do with 'stay away janners' . Every club with no history faces and has faced the same problem. Speculate to accumulate is the only solution these days.
With Holloway happy and in place, one or two top drawer loan signings, HP would have been packed to the rafters after Xmas 2007/8. Not everyone is like the hardcore fans and that is what they can't understand, these days they can't even tolerate them........fekkin plaaaastics !
Jesus wept !   

Does'nt bode well for PAFC given the ongoing lack or desire for ambition and success under Brent's ownership.
Blatter at FIFA and Dyke at the FA think I will turn to my local team - Newton Spurs as my live footie option.
Really am starting to think REAL footie is fecked under these people and their corporate mentality in all things sport.  

Iggy wrote:

I didn't advocate the shit or bust tactics when we were in the CCC, I thought it were madness. I also never believed that there was a wealthy benefactor trying desperately to spunk his wad on Argyle. What I did believe was that we were a selling club, always have been. I realised that when we sold Trevor Francis when I was a kid (I believe I cried). I do believe that if the crowds had turned up we could have afforded to keep those players and we could have kicked on. The crowds didn't turn up (by turn up I mean like Norwich and Portsmouth who actually sell out all season not just the odd game) and our board were clearly out of their league. The demise was clear to see, I had seen it before, what could I do about it? Feck all. By saying that you had this kind of God like ability to see into the future maybe makes you feel wise but makes you look arrogant and supercillious.
As for the "ride" I enjoyed following Argyle all the way up until Todd, Gardner and Kagami rocked up, then a bitter taste started to form in my mouth and I started to get off the bus. Yes I used to take the piss out of you Tring but that doesn't mean that I lacked your almost supernatural powers of being able to see Argyle failing to achieve top flight status.

The best player we never had !!   

Oh FFS!    I tried to think of a famous footballer who we sold for big bucks when I was a kid. Francis sprang to mind immediately. I always remember him scoring loads in the old league 1 when I was first following Argyle aged ten or twelve, he was the best known Plymouth player ever, I assumed he played for us to this day. In my defence he left Plymouth when I was about five, the bit about me crying may have been a bit bullshitty but Tring started it by lying about being some kind of Prophet when we all know he is just pompous and arrogant.
Out of interest who was our first big money sale? Tynan, Mariner, Raffety?

Gordon Astall and Alex Govan

gary megson i think iggy refers to or david phillips ?

Iggy wrote:

Oh FFS!    I tried to think of a famous footballer who we sold for big bucks when I was a kid. Francis sprang to mind immediately. I always remember him scoring loads in the old league 1 when I was first following Argyle aged ten or twelve, he was the best known Plymouth player ever, I assumed he played for us to this day. In my defence he left Plymouth when I was about five, the bit about me crying may have been a bit bullshitty but Tring started it by lying about being some kind of Prophet when we all know he is just pompous and arrogant.
Out of interest who was our first big money sale? Tynan, Mariner, Raffety?

Must be your age Iggy.

Tommy Tynan.....Liverpool.

Paul Mariner.....Bolton.

Billy Rafferty.....Glasgow.

But a good question....who can it be ?

Gary Megson.....Manchester.

David Phillips.....Wegberg, Germany.

Alex Govan.....Glasgow.

Iggy wrote:

Oh FFS!    I tried to think of a famous footballer who we sold for big bucks when I was a kid. Francis sprang to mind immediately. I always remember him scoring loads in the old league 1 when I was first following Argyle aged ten or twelve, he was the best known Plymouth player ever, I assumed he played for us to this day. In my defence he left Plymouth when I was about five, the bit about me crying may have been a bit bullshitty but Tring started it by lying about being some kind of Prophet when we all know he is just pompous and arrogant.
Out of interest who was our first big money sale? Tynan, Mariner, Raffety?

Pompous, moi ?  Just more astute than the average BGB   

We 'sold' a soon to be England international for, I think, £300k plus Terry frikkin Austin and a crocked John Peddelty. Waiters was shafted by the outclassed Argyle board, just as Holloway was 30 years later.
Now we're being shafted by a property developer and the faithful are actually encouraging him as long as they get to play with the train set............ only in jannerland  

I have been looking for a Plymouth born,Argyle player who was sold for big money.......not many choices to be honest.

I realize that isn't what Iggy asked,

Both would be interesting to know the answer to.

Trevor Francis stuck in my mind because I am pretty sure that he was the first million pound transfer in the English game. I remember my Grandad spitting nails about it at the time, wtf would he say about Rooneys wages?

My grandad played in the same Looe team for several seasons. Apparently, Looe beat Argyle 2-0 in a pre season friendly and the Argyle team left straight after the match without partaking in the buffet !  

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its a load of shit, floated by Dyke because hes obviously looked at Spain and decided the reason they have won the last 3 major tournaments is because Barcelona and Real Madrids b teams play in the lower leagues. The also employ thousands more coaches but that involves years of work.

Greg Dyke was heavily involved in the formation of the Premier League.

The Premier League tail strongly wags the FA's dog.

And now Dyke is back. And how.