Holloway

Ollieargyle9 is fast becoming the almost lone spokesperson for Pasoti's dimwitted janneratti.

The increase of about 2k on the ever present fanbase is due to the 6 years in the championship. Six years in the PL would see a cemented fanbase in the mid to high teens, in the lower leagues imo, with more if we got on a roll. The ground is/ will be inadequate and fails to inspire. Another nail in the ambition coffin.

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Czarcasm wrote:

hairy j wrote:

I genuinely wouldn't want to be a Cardiff City fan. As soon as Tan leaves - and he will - they're truly fecked. Swansea'll be relegated too eventually. Teams like that, unless they relentlessly improve, eventually go down.

Well yeah, that's pretty much what happens generally in football ain't it?

If you listen to popular opinion, we came very very close to going to the wall. And for what? Jackshit.

Cardiff may well one day be as much "truly fcuked" as we actually were. Or they may not.

Either way, as a fan, surely football is in essence about what you yourself experience over a lifetime of watching your team. Like him or loathe him, Tan has given those Cardiff fans something they'll never forget.

Tan perhaps not the best example cause of the row surrounding the shirt colouring- I'm genuinely not sure I'd want Argyle in the PL if it meant losing our identity.

I do however get where you're coming from with the thrust of your post. We came within an inch of being wound up and as you say, it was for nothing. It almost makes you think you may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.

GOB wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The consortium was every bit as responsible for Holloway leaving as Stapleton and Co were. This is what PP said about it on this thread "They met with Holloway, outlined their plans, reassured him that he was the manager they wanted" despite not having the club they wanted.

Given what we now know do you still, seriously, have any faith whatsoever in what you once believed the consortium might have done?

After all their bid was never as generous as was painted, had so many strings attached it stood no chance of success at all (hence the attempt to turn Holloway's head) which they knew full well and their bid was only made when it was in an attempt to stop the freehold transfer because after it their money pot was too small. On top of all that now we're aware of the growing collection of wedges that Peter Jones has driven into and through the fabric of the club before that time, during it and since...

And as PP says himself "the revised model wasn't that far different from the existing one". Two sides of the same coin and all the furore fuelled by mutual personality clashes and personal resentment.

I never had any faith in their proposal and with the benefit of hindsight it doesn't look like I was far wrong.

When something looks too good to be true it usually is. A magnificent, free grandstand anybody?

Fair point SFD and with hindsight I think that even Tring would have to acknowledge that we misjudged that one, but only with regards to the character assessment of Jones who in my opinion has proved himself to be completely inadequate to hold such a position both financially and professionally and, his business negotiating skills appear at best to be less than amateur.

However, the basic principle of the Club requiring investment for improvement remains, it was simply the wrong consortium with one or two of the wrong people, but it was only one or two.

I remember meeting Kev Ball on occasion and we shared a great many pints together to the point where just leaving the pub became a major staggering issue. His vision for a successful PAFC was exciting and sensible and he had the contacts to make it happen. I know you guys were arch enemies but his commitment for a successful Club couldn’t be denied.
Without WW3 breaking out on here it would be interesting to hear his version of events. I know he was not a well chappy so I hope he is fit and up and running again. He popped up on the old Argyle Talk site prior to Newell and Ponty gaining access and closing it, it would be good to hear from him again. Anyone know what he is up to these days?

Investment. There it is again. Investment.

Investment can be good. It depends on what the money is spent on and the terms on which the investment was made.

That was what worried me about the consortium. "You are going to get tens of millions" we were led to believe at one stage. Really? No. "They've bid £10m for the club" we were told. Really? No they didn't. It was only £5m. And all of that wasn't all going to end up in the club because the priorities were to buy out the existing directors (hence the increasingly vitriolic personal stuff aimed at them because making them walk away would have been much cheaper) and underwriting a share issue with whatever was left going to the team. Would that have kept Holloway's team intact? No. Like PP says it was essentially the same plan and given that they were adamantly Not Ever Going To Build Anything Anywhere then the success, if it was to come, would have equally as unsustainable.

Of course all of this was accompanied by a concerted PR internet campaign which was economical with the truth and reinforced the lies and half-truths firmly believed by people who had met other people, had a drink with them in the Real World, enjoyed the varied qualities of their lovely families or who had looked into their eyes and so knew for a fact that they were genuine. Now... What does that remind me of?

So I did not trust the consortium and was subjected to sustained personal abuse simply because I asked questions about their bid, about where the money was coming from, about who the backers were (they could have been Mafia, a Gibraltar-based off-shore company or anything! - remember how long that remained unanaswered?), about where the money was going, about what they were going to take back in return, about how any of this was actually going to improve Argyle... Now... What does that remind me of?

And I'm doing the same now.

And I'll do the same next time.

I don't trust any of the fuckers. Never have. Never will.

I think we both know that a concerted Internet campaign worked both ways, it certainly was not a one sided affair and we can both quote comments of lies and deceit that we can both lay claim to being proven. On behalf of the "brown tints" I can simply point to the predicted situation that the Club finds itself in today and yes, it was predicted, many times!

Stapleton, Wrathall etc. have been proven to be a disaster for PAFC and that is now a matter of fact and they were well supported by way of an abusive Internet campaign and that is also a matter of fact! The "Green Tints" won the war and the Club has been plunged into the darkness that was predicted.

However the past is the past, what is important now is that we do not allow history to repeat itself without at least having an opinion on the present and the future that now not only involved the Club, but also the City.

This goes to show how difficult entrenched positions are to overcome.

The Green v Brown thing was plain daft. I'm sure everybody had the best interests of the club at heart.

I was painted very much as a Green. Why shouldn't I have been at the time when things were better than they had been for many years? The club was doing well and was debt-free. What was there to complain about? Now I'm probably seen as a Brown and I haven't changed my views one jot between the two times.

The decline was only inevitable once the club over-spent (something I constantly warned against) and that was yet to come. In fact that over-spending could easily be spun as investment if you had a mind to. I could argue that the investment so widely clamoured for was what led to the collapse. What's the difference between investment and debt anyway?

By the way where was the consortium when we were in administration and it could have bought the club for far less than £5m? I don't recall them ever being mentioned.

No, it was a little more than Big Knobs indulging in a knob measuring contest to see who was the Biggest Knob of them of all.

What is undeniable is that things could not have gone more wrong than they eventually did and that now we have a different Big Knob in charge and there's never been a ruler in sight.

Zackly Gob that's why the pasb is so important.

The supporters should have a voice, not a pretence that works for Brent.

GreenSam wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

hairy j wrote:

I genuinely wouldn't want to be a Cardiff City fan. As soon as Tan leaves - and he will - they're truly fecked. Swansea'll be relegated too eventually. Teams like that, unless they relentlessly improve, eventually go down.

Well yeah, that's pretty much what happens generally in football ain't it?

If you listen to popular opinion, we came very very close to going to the wall. And for what? Jackshit.

Cardiff may well one day be as much "truly fcuked" as we actually were. Or they may not.

Either way, as a fan, surely football is in essence about what you yourself experience over a lifetime of watching your team. Like him or loathe him, Tan has given those Cardiff fans something they'll never forget.

Tan perhaps not the best example cause of the row surrounding the shirt colouring- I'm genuinely not sure I'd want Argyle in the PL if it meant losing our identity.

I do however get where you're coming from with the thrust of your post. We came within an inch of being wound up and as you say, it was for nothing. It almost makes you think you may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.

Interesting question-what would have happened if the New World gang had been in charge when Holloway was manager?

No idea, dear boy. The one certain thing is that once players and staff start attracting admiring glances for their on pitch performance in the second tier, you simply have to have some financial clout and clear ambition to retain them. It's exactly what Holloway said and exactly what some of us, hounded off Pasoti, were saying too.
Most city clubs now have established fanbases through exposure to the PL but we haven't. That's why money in the boardroom is essential at crucial times, in order to have the slightest chance of getting there.A sustained promotion push after Christmas in 2007/8 would likely have seen HP sold out on several occasions, thus returning some of the investment. That was never going to happen whilst Stapes and co were determined to hold onto position and cash in personally.
It all makes the clusterfuck look even more unfit for purpose, when the club gets on a roll again.

GOB wrote:

The supporters should have a voice, not a pretence that works for Brent.

I was taking the piss.   

Ambition isn't having oodles of money you don't mind losing. That isn't ambition. That's aggressive economics, aggressive capitalism in a 'sport'. I love the sport of football but hate the fact that professional football is aggressively capitalist.

I doubt you will find many that disagree Hairy, but you don't really believe that football is a sport, do you?

The kicking the ball thing is a sport. I'm sure it's a sport.

hairy j wrote:

The kicking the ball thing is a sport. I'm sure it's a sport.

Depends on the context I spose, me punting a ball softly to a 5 yr isn't the same as Lionel messi scoring at the bernabeu is it?

Oh I dunno.



Best. Football cllip. Ever.

Timar in his prime was a great player for us, I remember him hitting Halmosi who was on the left wing for us with a ball from the corner of the pen box twice in one game, naturally Halmosi took two touches on each ball and scored two goals, happy days.

I hear that Burnley had 1700 travelling fans at Watford yesterday. If Argiggle were in the same position ie 10 points clear in 2nd place with 7 games to play for a place in the PL, how many would we have taken if there was room........... 10k/15 k ?

Arsenal away twice, Wigan in 86 etc would suggest that if we were in that position there would be very few grounds which we wouldn't sell out at this stage of the season.

Gone..........

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Les Miserable wrote:

Gone..........

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Cant say it wasnt overdue.

Inevitable.

Getting Blackpool up was definitely his high-water mark wasn't it? The extent to which he was out of his depth with Palace last season was almost embarrassing.

Yep. Very much a lower-league dweller. His CV has probably got more lows than highs now. There's no happy medium with Ollie is there? He seems to either achieve the sublime - getting favourites for relegation from the CCC Blackpool, promoted to the Prem. Or the rediculous - relegating Leicester to league 1...probably the Prem equivalent of Arsene Wenger relegating Arsenal.

I'd still have him back here though at some point....

Indeed. He fits, as long as there is enough cash in the boardroom to back him at the right moment. Then sack him and bring in Pulis for the PL

Found out again pahahahahahahaha, can talk the talk but not walk the walk.

Just waiting for the usual village idiots to tout him for sheridans replacement