Hillsborough Enquiry

So the Liverpool fans were right all along.

They weren't without blame themselves but apparently the report largely exonerates them and points a finger at the police for an orchestrated cover-up that may even extend higher up. 164 police statements significantly amended.

I am a law-abiding citizen. I have direct experience of both bad police and good police. I am not virulently anti-police. They have a tough job. But, yet again, there is evidence of police misbehaviour. What is this all about?!

Surprised me Knecht. 23 years of lies and slander.

My own misconceptions about Liverpool fans came from this disaster. I got it totally wrong.

Lies about ticketless fans, lies about drunken fans, media cover up and police incompetence and corruption. Absolutely disgusted at being taken in by the media and the huge cover up.

Apologies to all Liverpool fans who have been smeared by these lies and thoughts to all the friends and families to the innocent 96 that were killed.

I would echo your description of yourself in police terms as me also. This was some time ago but nevertheless there does seem to be a continuing outing of stuff done by the police that is way less than ok. There is little wonder that the respect shown to them is at such a low point. Everytime something comes out that respect just gets less and less and that's for ordinary folk who would have backed them almost without question at one time. With the amount of information that is out there now and accessable to a lot more people it is harder to cover up than perhaps it once was. Maybe it was always that they were less trustworthy than given credit for and it was Mr Ordinary who was wrong to put them in such high esteem in the first place.

I still wouldn't deliberately break any law and I would never encourage others to do it either but I find it harder and harder to defend the law these days. We in this Country have always looked upon other countries with some distain given their corrupt law enforcement. It seems we are as bad as everywhere else but were a lot slower to recognise it. I find it difficult to put any faith anywhere now.

I've just read that the police engaged in trawls of their computer database in order to gain information to smear relatives of the deceased!!!!

what the police were doing allowing that many fans to attend the game in the first place should have been enough evidence to prove they were are at fault not the fans.

Hope The Sun, Boris Johnson, that evil kelvin mckenzie, offer apologies too.

*incase a few wonder why i said boris it is the fact he said liverpool was a city that wallowed in victim status and repeated claims the fans were drunk

Renegade wrote:

what the police were doing allowing that many fans to attend the game in the first place should have been enough evidence to prove they were are at fault not the fans.

Hope The Sun, Boris Johnson, that evil kelvin mckenzie, offer apologies too.

*incase a few wonder why i said boris it is the fact he said liverpool was a city that wallowed in victim status and repeated claims the fans were drunk

Boris gave a statement in 2004 and his view was no doubt slighted by the lies surrounding this event. There is little point trying to make political capital out of this renegade, it really is in bad taste. Boris was like many in this Country who believed the Liverpool fans were to blame. Renegade, please keep your political statements to your day job or twitter!!

Catastrophic cock-up followed by a nearly enduring criminal conspiracy - I would like to see legal action taken against a slew of those involved here - be they police, press or politicians.

The Red Star wrote:

Renegade wrote:

what the police were doing allowing that many fans to attend the game in the first place should have been enough evidence to prove they were are at fault not the fans.

Hope The Sun, Boris Johnson, that evil kelvin mckenzie, offer apologies too.

*incase a few wonder why i said boris it is the fact he said liverpool was a city that wallowed in victim status and repeated claims the fans were drunk

Boris gave a statement in 2004 and his view was no doubt slighted by the lies surrounding this event. There is little point trying to make political capital out of this renegade, it really is in bad taste. Boris was like many in this Country who believed the Liverpool fans were to blame. Renegade, please keep your political statements to your day job or twitter!!

no thankyou if you dont like it tough

The Red Star wrote:

Renegade wrote:

what the police were doing allowing that many fans to attend the game in the first place should have been enough evidence to prove they were are at fault not the fans.

Hope The Sun, Boris Johnson, that evil kelvin mckenzie, offer apologies too.

*incase a few wonder why i said boris it is the fact he said liverpool was a city that wallowed in victim status and repeated claims the fans were drunk

Boris gave a statement in 2004 and his view was no doubt slighted by the lies surrounding this event. There is little point trying to make political capital out of this renegade, it really is in bad taste. Boris was like many in this Country who believed the Liverpool fans were to blame. Renegade, please keep your political statements to your day job or twitter!!

Making political capital out of people who tried to make political capital?

I'm sure Boris will now have to apologise fulsomely. His stock is high based mostly on people's love of his buffonery and rhetoric which has been much in evidence over the past month or so. However there is a darker side to him that is steeped in Conservative politics of the right and his comments about Hillsborough were evidence of this and he should be ashamed. He cannot and should not just whiff whaff his outburst away.

JonB wrote:

The Red Star wrote:

Renegade wrote:

what the police were doing allowing that many fans to attend the game in the first place should have been enough evidence to prove they were are at fault not the fans.

Hope The Sun, Boris Johnson, that evil kelvin mckenzie, offer apologies too.

*incase a few wonder why i said boris it is the fact he said liverpool was a city that wallowed in victim status and repeated claims the fans were drunk

Boris gave a statement in 2004 and his view was no doubt slighted by the lies surrounding this event. There is little point trying to make political capital out of this renegade, it really is in bad taste. Boris was like many in this Country who believed the Liverpool fans were to blame. Renegade, please keep your political statements to your day job or twitter!!

Making political capital out of people who tried to make political capital?

Maybe, but this is about 96 people that died and 23 years of lies and cover up by all fecking political parties. Labour are not blameless here either.

BBC Report

I saw a news report last night and the police did seem to have made quite a number of huge cock ups. Only one paramedic (in a van) was allowed access to the pitch- about 40 others were not allowed to access the pitch area by the police- in previous enquiries the sole paramedic was never questioned- he believed that if more paramedic services were allowed access the number of deaths would have been reduced.

Like TRS I've wrongly apportioned blame to the LFC fans (and the police) believing that thousands of ticketless fans were at fault for the crush. Its unbelievable the lengths the police went to, to cover this up and smear the characters of the victims.

I'm sure a large quantity of fans were drunk or well on their way to be drunk, just as a lot of us would've been going to a cup semi-final, but some of the lies told to discredit the fans who who injured or died is unforgivable.

What I don't understand is why people are surprised that the Police have lied en masse and a huge cover up took place!

It's still commonplace in the Police force and the only reason more and more cases are coming to light is that technology has moved on so much that it is getting harder and harder to lie these days and get away with it. Just as it is harder and harder for criminals to get away with crimes, it has become a whole new ball game trying to "fit someone up".

I understand that being a Policeman is a thankless task and takes a certain type of person to be able to put up with a lot of the crap they have to, but there is no excuse for incidents like this and what can't be allowed to happen now is the people involved to retire gracefully and escape prosecution and still collect a handsome pension.

There won't really be justice for the 96 unless anyone who was involved in the cover-up is punished. Whether that's Constables or Chief Superintendants and slimy newspaper editors they all need to face the music, but I doubt they will.

knecht wrote:

I've just read that the police engaged in trawls of their computer database in order to gain information to smear relatives of the deceased!!!!

They also took blood samples of the dead victims to do nothing but test for levels of alcohol to corroberate their story.

In addition out of 164 formal police witness statements 116 were altered to show the Liverpool fans in a poor light. You also cannot tell me that members of Thatcher's Government were oblivious to this cover up.

In addition and equally as shocking the statements of members of the ambulance service were also altered.

Of course at the time in light of the recent memory of the Heysel disaster the public were all too willing to believe that the Scousers were responsible.

Dougie wrote:

I'm sure Boris will now have to apologise fulsomely. His stock is high based mostly on people's love of his buffonery and rhetoric which has been much in evidence over the past month or so. However there is a darker side to him that is steeped in Conservative politics of the right and his comments about Hillsborough were evidence of this and he should be ashamed. He cannot and should not just whiff whaff his outburst away.

Nor should he be allowed to, however for the fools on here or the likes of Chris Webb on twitter lovingly trying to make political capital out of a disaster that cost 96 lives should look at their own failings.

We could always blame Thatcher as she was PM in 1989, John Major until 1997 for not conducting a full investigation or how about the 13 years where Blair and Brown did feck all and assisted the cover up here and took us into needless wars.

MAYBE, JUST MAYBE IF PEOPLE STOPPED TRYING TO MAKE POLITICAL CAPITAL the truth would have been know 23 years sooner and the familes could have been able to mourn properly.

[quote="Nick Wall"]

knecht wrote:

In addition out of 164 formal police witness statements 116 were altered to show the Liverpool fans in a poor light. You also cannot tell me that members of Thatcher's Government were oblivious to this cover up.

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Didn't Boris get despatched off to Liverpool at the time to eat his humble pie and offer his fulsome apology? 'Tweren't best received if I remember correctly.

I hadn't seen what the Pres had written mostly because he banned me from looking at his twitter feed - all in the cause of free speech I presume. But yes trying to link and comparing and contrasting Ed Millibands laple badge today with an article written 8 years ago is ludicrous.

Politicians will always be politicians and as the grinning floppy haired one has been happy to share in the limelight this month and take his plaudits so he should take a route to sackcloth and ashes over this.

Dougie wrote:

I hadn't seen what the Pres had written mostly because he banned me from looking at his twitter feed - all in the cause of free speech I presume. But yes trying to link and comparing and contrasting Ed Millibands laple badge today with an article written 8 years ago is ludicrous.

.

Maybe Chris Webb could go to Post Office and ask all post boxes in Plymouth to be painted red as a mark of solidarity for his Liverpool brothers or has that been done already?!

This is well worth reading:

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Exclusive of tomorrow's Sun front page-

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Andy_Symons wrote:

This is well worth reading:

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Fecking hell, that takes me back. What an article that is. That should be made compulsary reading. scary. Imagine Trevor Hicks, trying to resuscitate his 19 year old daughter and seeing his other 15 year old daughter being put into the only ambulance in the ground (40 ambulances were kept outside because the police lied about fans fighting). He left his 19 year old to the man next to him to go with his 15 year old, thinking that man (a fan) would help her. He had to suck the vomit out of his 15 year olds mouth, but both daughters died.

[quote="The Red Star"]

Nick Wall wrote:

knecht wrote:

In addition out of 164 formal police witness statements 116 were altered to show the Liverpool fans in a poor light. You also cannot tell me that members of Thatcher's Government were oblivious to this cover up.

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Whilst I am usually more than willing to blame Thatcher for everything including the execrable decision to choose Kenneth McKellar to represent us at the Eurovision Song Contest, in this instance that is not a quote from me. It's not clear.

The Mirror report should be compulsory reading for anyone involved in the cover up. Will any of them be the subject of criminal proceedings?

Andy_Symons wrote:

This is well worth reading:

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Just read that on the tube Andy...had to clear the eyes before leaving.