Bluebirds v The Irons .Part one.

And Greenskin the same old shit argument from your ilk also. Nowhere, and in case you missed it, nowhere did I say I was happy with mediocraty. People like you state that investment equals promotion to the premiership as if it is a forgone conclusion. All I'm doing is pointing out the club who practiced what you and others preach have ended up in exactly the same place they were before they started and are considerably poorer in terms of pounds shillings and pence than they might have been.

It is always trotted out on here especially that anyone who states what is fundamentally a truth is an aviva with no ambition. That is so untrue but an easy jibe. I want to see Argyle in the premiership. Just like you. Why wouldn't I want that? It's why we support our respective clubs isn't it. I added to my previous post that it is true that Argyle have always lacked ambition but even if they had not there is no given in life that says the ambition would be realised. I might have been happier had they tried and I certainly didn't say I would not have been or that Argyle should be run within it's means or anything like that. Very simple though to trott out an outcome which has never been tested but it doesn't turn it into any kind of fact which are the terms people like you and Freathy often turn it into. To tell people to "read and learn" is based on learning what exactly? Something that might have happened but could also easily be a myth. Opinion isn't learning anything except what somebody else thinks.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

And Greenskin the same old shit argument from your ilk also. Nowhere, and in case you missed it, nowhere did I say I was happy with mediocraty. People like you state that investment equals promotion to the premiership as if it is a forgone conclusion. All I'm doing is pointing out the club who practiced what you and others preach have ended up in exactly the same place they were before they started and are considerably poorer in terms of pounds shillings and pence than they might have been.

It is always trotted out on here especially that anyone who states what is fundamentally a truth is an aviva with no ambition. That is so untrue but an easy jibe. I want to see Argyle in the premiership. Just like you. Why wouldn't I want that? It's why we support our respective clubs isn't it. I added to my previous post that it is true that Argyle have always lacked ambition but even if they had not there is no given in life that says the ambition would be realised. I might have been happier had they tried and I certainly didn't say I would not have been or that Argyle should be run within it's means or anything like that. Very simple though to trott out an outcome which has never been tested but it doesn't turn it into any kind of fact which are the terms people like you and Freathy often turn it into. To tell people to "read and learn" is based on learning what exactly? Something that might have happened but could also easily be a myth. Opinion isn't learning anything except what somebody else thinks.

FFS,if you're going to have an argument,please at least do me the honour of reading my post in a bit of detail first,starting with the highlighted bit.

I'd respectfully suggest you to read posts then. You invited somebody to read Freathy's post above your's and they may learn something. Freathy stated "we'd have had a couple of seasons in the premiership". Is that not saying that with investment then promotion WOULD have followed? Read his post again which you so agreed with and that is exactly what you were saying. I wasn't aware I was having an argument just stating my opinion as vociferously as you were is all. Right on cue Freathy then comes back with the lack of ambition thing. Surprise surprise because it is the only argument you have.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

I'd respectfully suggest you to read posts then. You invited somebody to read Freathy's post above your's and they may learn something. Freathy stated "we'd have had a couple of seasons in the premiership". Is that not saying that with investment then promotion WOULD have followed? Read his post again which you so agreed with and that is exactly what you were saying. I wasn't aware I was having an argument just stating my opinion as vociferously as you were is all. Right on cue Freathy then comes back with the lack of ambition thing. Surprise surprise because it is the only argument you have.

Well,if Holloway's achievement at Blackpool [maybe twice,we shall see] is anything to go by,then Freathy was right,wasn't he.And you could also put Pulis in the "Argyle manager saw what was coming and made good elsewhere" bracket.If you can show me any post of mine that states that Argyle should have either thrown money at the situation or that promotion was in any way guaranteed if they did invest,then i would be very surprised.And what would be "the only argument "that i have"? If you mean that my proposition is that Argyle have failed to reach the top level and keep pace with other clubs of similar history and status in the past because of the lack of will and resources of those directing the club fortunes,hell yeah,i totally agree with you.Because 48 years of experience has told me that there is no other argument.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

I'd respectfully suggest you to read posts then. You invited somebody to read Freathy's post above your's and they may learn something. Freathy stated "we'd have had a couple of seasons in the premiership". Is that not saying that with investment then promotion WOULD have followed? Read his post again which you so agreed with and that is exactly what you were saying. I wasn't aware I was having an argument just stating my opinion as vociferously as you were is all. Right on cue Freathy then comes back with the lack of ambition thing. Surprise surprise because it is the only argument you have.

Oh FFS! It's my opinion that we'd have had a couple of seasons in the big time if *****wallet hadn't shat on us. Of course it may have all gone tits up. But after *****wallet's total lack of ambition by not only not adding to Ollies superb play-off chasing team but actually selling key players meant we had f*** all chance of going up or, as it ultimately turned out, even staying up! You'd agree with that?

I did not say that you had mentioned "throwing money" at anything. You agreed with Freathy that with investment Argyle WOULD have achieved promotion. That is what he said and you invited somebody to read it and learn. By doing that you clearly agree with the statement made. I am saying there is no evidence that would have led to anything. I have supported this club for 50 years and also know the history of the nearly club. I am also aware that none of the Chairmen or Boards have gone for it with a financial push. The one club in recent times that can be pointed at and say they have invested and gone for it is Cardiff. They haven't made it so the argument about investment is flawed and not factual. All that can be said at best is that promotion "MIGHT" have been achieved but we will never know will we because the push was never made once again and the theory never tested for real.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

I did not say that you had mentioned "throwing money" at anything. You agreed with Freathy that with investment Argyle WOULD have achieved promotion. That is what he said and you invited somebody to read it and learn. By doing that you clearly agree with the statement made. I am saying there is no evidence that would have led to anything. I have supported this club for 50 years and also know the history of the nearly club. I am also aware that none of the Chairmen or Boards have gone for it with a financial push. The one club in recent times that can be pointed at and say they have invested and gone for it is Cardiff. They haven't made it so the argument about investment is flawed and not factual. All that can be said at best is that promotion "MIGHT" have been achieved but we will never know will we because the push was never made once again and the theory never tested for real.

For christ's sake.Read Freathy's post,and then my post.Then just for the clarity that you seem to need,i'll also copy,paste and highlight this from my post made at 7.44:

Of course there was no guarantee of getting promotion.

Well there that wasn't so painful was it. It all turns out to be opinion after all. When you extoll somebody to read a post and learn it should contain some factual evidence that is proveable and not simply somebodies opinion. You can only learn what somebody thinks from opinion.

People always use the argument of what would have been rather than the true one of what might have been. Tringreen is doing the same on the "What makes a big club" thread trying to tell people that if only Argyle had done this or that 20 or 30 years ago then the stats would have been so different. Not might have been but would have been. A gentleman from Exeter is pointing out more or less the same thing I am. Argyle didn't and the stats are the stats and anything else is fantasy land.

The same myth applies with still going to watch Argyle. If you go then you are an acceptor of mediocraty and have no ambition. It simply is not true. People still go for many reasons but they don't always like what they see and say so. They accept the league position because that is where we are and there is no choice in that. I will wager there is not one single Argyle fan who goes or stays away that hasn't got the same ambition for promotion and a visit to the top league. The people who go are not stupid because they go anymore than those that stay away are wiser.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

Well there that wasn't so painful was it. It all turns out to be opinion after all. When you extoll somebody to read a post and learn it should contain some factual evidence that is proveable and not simply somebodies opinion. You can only learn what somebody thinks from opinion.

People always use the argument of what would have been rather than the true one of what might have been. Tringreen is doing the same on the "What makes a big club" thread trying to tell people that if only Argyle had done this or that 20 or 30 years ago then the stats would have been so different. Not might have been but would have been. A gentleman from Exeter is pointing out more or less the same thing I am. Argyle didn't and the stats are the stats and anything else is fantasy land.

The same myth applies with still going to watch Argyle. If you go then you are an acceptor of mediocraty and have no ambition. It simply is not true. People still go for many reasons but they don't always like what they see and say so. They accept the league position because that is where we are and there is no choice in that. I will wager there is not one single Argyle fan who goes or stays away that hasn't got the same ambition for promotion and a visit to the top league. The people who go are not stupid because they go anymore than those that stay away are wiser.

It should actually go without saying what we are giving is opinions without the need to explain it. This is a football message board FFS. It's my opinion that not investing and by selling key players will get us nowhere - I refer you to Argyle's miserable history of continous failure. It's my opinion that all those who disagree with me are completely wrong - I refer you to Argyle's miserable history of continous failure.

Shall we have a debate on what constitutes continuous failure? Nah!!! Lets not.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

Shall we have a debate on what constitutes continuous failure? Nah!!! Lets not.

I agree.No need for a debate.