Tory Election Fraud

Number of constituencies under investigation? 29 including Plymouth South and Devonport (that doesn't sound right!), Torbay and North Cornwall.

Tory majority? 18.

Also under investigation: Tory candidate for Devon and Cornwall police commissioner.

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Strangely despite being all over the internet and having been extensively featured on Channel 4 News the lefty BBC seems to have missed this.

There's Jizzum flying around the Captain's cabin on the Golden Hind tonight!

Fingers in the ears Ricks, la la la la la, it's all good, I'm all right, la la la la la la la. I'd love to live in la la land.

Rickler wrote:

There's Jizzum flying around the Captain's cabin on the Golden Hind tonight!

Back in Thatchers day there was another marginal constituency fraud by guess who. I knew the BBC economics correspondent at the time and he told me there was a D notice slapped on the BBC regarding it. We never get to hear about these sort of things. So much for democracy. But, as you can see from some of the comments on here, no one gives a stuff.
These people will be booted out one day, that's for sure, but it won't be by the ballot box. REAL enfranchisement starts with your own personal life and determination to live it as you see fit.

Lord Biro wrote:

REAL enfranchisement starts with your own personal life and determination to live it as you see fit.

And yet you seem to think being in the EU will somehow help deliver this to us.

It will drive us further than ever away from it.

Lord Biro wrote:

Back in Thatchers day there was another marginal constituency fraud by guess who. I knew the BBC economics correspondent at the time and he told me there was a D notice slapped on the BBC regarding it. We never get to hear about these sort of things. So much for democracy. But, as you can see from some of the comments on here, no one gives a stuff.
These people will be booted out one day, that's for sure, but it won't be by the ballot box. REAL enfranchisement starts with your own personal life and determination to live it as you see fit.

When democratic processes fail its up to people to take direct action. That's how democracy works. Thats what brought the big social changes through history- human rights, women's rights, the abolition of slavery. They were brought about by people taking civil disobedience.
Some hippy 2016.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

REAL enfranchisement starts with your own personal life and determination to live it as you see fit.

And yet you seem to think being in the EU will somehow help deliver this to us.

It will drive us further than ever away from it.

I don't know where you got that idea from Rollo. I'm economically agnostic when it comes to a choice between a capitalist dominated EU or a capitalist dominated UK. It won't make a jot of difference to me personally. Personal independence and freedom, is just that, personal.  But it is true I probably have more time for the Greek leader than the UK leader, and I do happen to think Europe are more likely to deliver a social democratic environment than the old UK barons who are always trying to turn back the clock. But I won't be voting. My "non vote" will be a sort of "none of the above". There are other more pressing political matters.
 
While having a delightful lunch up at the Maker canteen today, I had a peruse of their WMNews. Having come from Mousehole fishing and shipping stock, I see there was good news in there that the small 10 metre fisherman that work out of the likes of Cadgwith beach have won their battle to stop the WESTMINSTER decision to cap their their quotas, just because they didn't catch ENOUGH fish in the last 3 or 4 years. Outrageous attempt by WESTMINSTER to steal their rights. Nothing to do with the EU whatsoever, but people blame the EU.

If anyone thinks that the 4000 under 10 metre fishermen are going to get a better deal from the UK, then think again. It's all about the big companies stealing all the quotas for themselves, as in all other walks of life these days. There's big lumps of unused capital desperately looking for work. They're even getting taxpayers to pay bribes to small guys to decommission their boats just so their mates can get all the fish for themselves. In or out won't change that continuing process.

I think that successive governments are to blame for using the EU as scapegoat if when it suits them for unpalatable laws and rules. At least out of Europe they will have to fess up to being the instigators of such rule changes giving us a chance to kick up about it. Let's face it if we think a law is coming from Europe there is feck all we can do about it at present. It's also farcical to blame our governments for the common fisheries policy once Wilson had swapped our waters for unregulated banking over there. It's almost like the ERT stories are true.

Lord Biro wrote:

I had a peruse of their WMNews. Having come from Mousehole fishing and shipping stock, I see there was good news in there that the small 10 metre fisherman that work out of the likes of Cadgwith beach have won their battle to stop the WESTMINSTER decision to cap their their quotas, just because they didn't catch ENOUGH fish in the last 3 or 4 years. Outrageous attempt by WESTMINSTER to steal their rights. Nothing to do with the EU whatsoever, but people blame the EU.

If anyone thinks that the 4000 under 10 metre fishermen are going to get a better deal from the UK, then think again. It's all about the big companies stealing all the quotas for themselves, as in all other walks of life these days. There's big lumps of unused capital desperately looking for work. They're even getting taxpayers to pay bribes to small guys to decommission their boats just so their mates can get all the fish for themselves. In or out won't change that continuing process.

Licence capping is nothing new. Many under 10m boats were capped in 2009 under Labour, but only after fishermen exploiting a legal loophole whereby the boat could be registered in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland & have the licence cap rescinded. The Labour government then moved the goal posts forcing boats to register in their country of operation & the licence cap was re-instated.
Under 10m boats make up 80% of the UK fleet but only hold 4% of the quota.

As for being nothing to do with the EU, that's bollocks. Thanks to being in EU, member states fishing interests were free to buy up UK licences & quota. A huge amount of the UK quota is now in European hands (owned mainly by Dutch & Spanish interests) with just one boat, the Dutch owned but UK registered Cornelis Vrolijk holding 23% of the entire UK quota in terms of quantity.

The UK government has been unable to limit quota moving to mainland Europe after a series of expensive European court cases which ruled against the UK many years ago (Factortame)

Incidentally, the boats that have had their licences capped were only required to catch 300kg of pressure stocks species over a 3 year reference period & have failed to do so, admittedly there have been some extenuating circumstances but others stating they have lost their livelihoods are well wide of the mark.

Fishermen can be much better off outside the EU. For a start the outdated & wasteful quota system can be tailored to fit stocks more effectively. The current situation on Haddock being a case in point. Over 10m boats in area VIIe (Western Channel) can legally land only 250kg of Haddock per month as the stock is said by EU scientists to be at a dangerously low level. The reality on the fishing grounds is that trawlers can catch their monthly Haddock quota in around 3 hours. Anything over that for the rest of the month is dumped back over the side dead.

Lord Melbury wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

I had a peruse of their WMNews. Having come from Mousehole fishing and shipping stock, I see there was good news in there that the small 10 metre fisherman that work out of the likes of Cadgwith beach have won their battle to stop the WESTMINSTER decision to cap their their quotas, just because they didn't catch ENOUGH fish in the last 3 or 4 years. Outrageous attempt by WESTMINSTER to steal their rights. Nothing to do with the EU whatsoever, but people blame the EU.

If anyone thinks that the 4000 under 10 metre fishermen are going to get a better deal from the UK, then think again. It's all about the big companies stealing all the quotas for themselves, as in all other walks of life these days. There's big lumps of unused capital desperately looking for work. They're even getting taxpayers to pay bribes to small guys to decommission their boats just so their mates can get all the fish for themselves. In or out won't change that continuing process.

Licence capping is nothing new. Many under 10m boats were capped in 2009 under Labour, but only after fishermen exploiting a legal loophole whereby the boat could be registered in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland & have the licence cap rescinded. The Labour government then moved the goal posts forcing boats to register in their country of operation & the licence cap was re-instated.
Under 10m boats make up 80% of the UK fleet but only hold 4% of the quota.

As for being nothing to do with the EU, that's bollocks. Thanks to being in EU, member states fishing interests were free to buy up UK licences & quota. A huge amount of the UK quota is now in European hands (owned mainly by Dutch & Spanish interests) with just one boat, the Dutch owned but UK registered Cornelis Vrolijk holding 23% of the entire UK quota in terms of quantity.

The UK government has been unable to limit quota moving to mainland Europe after a series of expensive European court cases which ruled against the UK many years ago (Factortame)

Incidentally, the boats that have had their licences capped were only required to catch 300kg of pressure stocks species over a 3 year reference period & have failed to do so, admittedly there have been some extenuating circumstances but others stating they have lost their livelihoods are well wide of the mark.

Fishermen can be much better off outside the EU. For a start the outdated & wasteful quota system can be tailored to fit stocks more effectively. The current situation on Haddock being a case in point. Over 10m boats in area VIIe (Western Channel) can legally land only 250kg of Haddock per month as the stock is said by EU scientists to be at a dangerously low level. The reality on the fishing grounds is that trawlers can catch their monthly Haddock quota in around 3 hours. Anything over that for the rest of the month is dumped back over the side dead.    

How refreshing, a post from somebody who actually knows what they're talking about.

It matters not a jot whether the big fishing fleets are owned in Holland, Spain or the UK. Times have changed. There's all manner of games. Get yourself down to the Swordfish in Newlyn and have a chat with the guys there........... as long as they're not Stevensons.  

Capitalism is full of "dumping fish" in the EU, AND in the UK. It rigs the supply and demand curves to suit capital invested and powerful lobbyists. As an example, look at the Irish ludicrous house building fix looking for easy profit  that left thousands of unsold houses. And what was the Irish government's answer ? dump the fish, mothball or demolish the houses. Don't want to go about offering cheap housing and lowering housing costs, do we. How the Irish rigged that part of the housing market had nothing to do with the EU whatsoever
If you think the EU is the one and only source of all this rigged supply and demand, you need your head examining.

I look to one absolute truth. For hundreds of years Europe, under it's private enterprise system with everyone biting and scratching, and given the best temperate climate on the planet, never ever was able to feed it's people properly. Along came the EU post WW2 and within 20 years of reorganising food production and markets with the boot of regulation behind it, food surpluses abounded, food aplenty for all, so much so, mountains of the stuff had to be given away to pensioners free. You never had it so good. They must have done something right.
Some industries gain from cross border trade and mutual regulation, and some lose out. It's how barter works. I'm pointing out the UK Westminster bunch couldn't give a monkeys about West country fishing when push comes to shove. They will always be sacrificed for other industries when negotiating trade deals. Any politician can reel off "facts" and it means diddly in the real world.

Lord Biro wrote:

It matters not a jot whether the big fishing fleets are owned in Holland, Spain or the UK. Times have changed. There's all manner of games. Get yourself down to the Swordfish in Newlyn and have a chat with the guys there........... as long as they're not Stevensons.

I do talk to fishermen all the time LB, It's my job.
Of course it matters where fishing fleets are owned. None of that fish caught on the UK quota benefits the UK in any way at all. It's all landed in Vigo, Ijmuiden or wherever. There's no added value or peripheral jobs generated from it here. It is generallly accepted that for every one job at sea there are four jobs dependent on it ashore.
The UK fishing industry is entirely under the control of the EU. Quotas are handed down from Brussels in December & dictats follow with alarming regularity, the under 10m licence capping being just one, whereby the UK government was told by Brussels to remove "latent capacity" in the fleet. To say the EU has no bearing on UK couldn't be further from the truth.
If your familiar with Newlyn you'll know that the fleet there is a shadow of what it was twenty or so years ago, entirely down to tiny quotas & other unworkable systems like "days at sea" restrictions. Virtually all that's making money there is the resurgent Hake fishery many miles off Land's End.
The Stevensons btw are more or less history, taken the money & run whilst ironically selling most of their licences to the Spanish.

You could more easily and more accurately state that the second world war instigated the food production rather than the EU and don't forget our land girls.

Lord Melbury wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

It matters not a jot whether the big fishing fleets are owned in Holland, Spain or the UK. Times have changed. There's all manner of games. Get yourself down to the Swordfish in Newlyn and have a chat with the guys there........... as long as they're not Stevensons.

I do talk to fishermen all the time LB, It's my job.
Of course it matters where fishing fleets are owned. None of that fish caught on the UK quota benefits the UK in any way at all. It's all landed in Vigo, Ijmuiden or wherever. There's no added value or peripheral jobs generated from it here. It is generallly accepted that for every one job at sea there are four jobs dependent on it ashore.  Tell that to the steel industry and the coal industry  
The UK fishing industry is entirely under the control of the EU. Quotas are handed down from Brussels in December & dictats follow with alarming regularity, the under 10m licence capping being just one, whereby the UK government was told by Brussels to remove "latent capacity" in the fleet.In the REAL world it was quite in the remit of Westminster not to initially try and cap the small fisherman. Westminster, within it's broader remit, chose to do so, not Brussels. That micro management was their decision. They would do the same, and probably worse, if not hamstrung by Brussels To say the EU has no bearing on UK couldn't be further from the truth.
If your familiar with Newlyn you'll know that the fleet there is a shadow of what it was twenty or so years ago, entirely down to tiny quotas & other unworkable systems like "days at sea" restrictions. Virtually all that's making money there is the resurgent Hake fishery many miles off Land's End. Tell that to Ebbw Vale and any other industry that has declined. And talking of steel, I would say the EU has done half a decent job of protecting it's central European industry. And the French know exactly how to "get round the rules". Makes you wonder why the UK chooses not to get round certain rules. I'll tell ou why, because it suit's it's purpose, and would do exactly the same outside the EU.    I was brought up on stories of the decline of Cornish fishing when the EU wasn't around to blame. That's why many folk including my family saw the light and got into other shipping markets.
The Stevensons btw are more or less history, taken the money & run whilst ironically selling most of their licences to the Spanish.Funny how it's called taking the money and run, when it suits one's own viewpoint. Others would just say they sold their assets in a free market. I think the Stevensons got too big, but then, hey, that's what happens when you get money and influence. They soon got a kicking when other interests came along.    

Hey Melbers, lets talk about wider planetary fishing issues where trading blocks worry about fishing stocks in public in their own back yard, and then commission huge factory ships to go sailing down to the West African coast to plunder everything in sight. Money holds sway in London just as much as in Brussels.
All of the above points show what a joke the whole idea of a "free market" and Corinthian competition mean in bulk standard reality of power and influence. Again, if anyone thinks in or out makes a shred of difference to the ordinary working person, you need your head examining, or your own commentator's interests published for scrutiny. Can't wait for the Westminster bunch to fully publish theirs.
Oh, and by the way, what's happened to the Mounts Bay protection vessel ? Not hanging out as it used to. Saving on it's overheads ? I guess as we've seen in banking, regulation, even in fisheries, is yesterday's industry in today's wild west. And the UK can't wait to add to the wildness. And it has the perfect excuse, austerity

I entirely agree with you on the steel & coal industries. The UK government does embrace these debilitating rules whereas others just ignore them. The rules do emanate from the EU though who probably piss themselves when the UK then gold plates them.
Was just telling you how it is in the fishing industry but can't agree that it would be worse outside the EU.
The coastguard tug hasn't been based in Mount's Bay for several winters now. Government cut-backs strangely enough

I think that the coal and steel industries are excellent reasons not to let your main industries fall into foreign hands. You've sold me Biccy, OUT OUT OUT!

 Uk steel was bought by sub continent indian money men, as you well know. Again, nothing to do with the EU.

In fact, a UK outside of the EU will be pleading more than ever with India and the likes to "invest in Britain".
"Buy our madly overpriced London real estate and contribute to the further impoverishment of ordinary folk in the UK austerity north west fringe European fortification.

But out of Europe at least we have a chance to elect or unelect the people in charge. Cameron couldn't change Europe what makes you think the likes of us can?

Dont really matter which lot of barstewards are in power where, the average bloke gets stuffed.

Amsterdamage wrote:

But out of Europe at least we have a chance to elect or unelect the people in charge. Cameron couldn't change Europe what makes you think the likes of us can?

Ammy, just a reminder that the people who are really in charge, aren't elected. And even if they were on occasion, democracy often becomes a form of majorityism, where a rump totally dominates at the expense of others. Turkey is supposed to be a democracy, but there was a great "dissident" voice on the radio the other day stating just how their electoral system has been usurped by a "majority" who are oppressing certain groups. Democracy is supposed to be multi faceted, one strand of which is the protection of minority interests and the disadvantaged, that ALL capitalist systems produce. Other strands include the judiciary being totally separate for the executive. The UK is just as likely to wear down these in built mechanisms of representation and egality as the EU, and the ballot box has nothing to do with it. These many different strands are outside the electoral procedure, and depend on cultural acceptance and desire. I don't like some of the noises of where the UK wants to go. Moving away from social democracy and back to small state, big Baron culture, secret behind closed doors justice and invasion of privacy, all under the guise of a nationalist myth and we're short of a bob or two, which frankly is a lie.

Still rumbling along.

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Wonder if they're investigating the ballot boxes that went missing for 6 hours in South Thanet.

Nice to see Plymouth's Ollie Colvile is under scrutiny.

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He didn't go over his spending cap though did he? Keep digging Frank