Argyle in for Alan Smith?

Sadly I don't get to eat at The Fat Duck every other week. As far a Pasta and Pizza houses go, I actually love Prezzo.

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

...it's laughable that RWY is held up as some kind of beacon of sophistication in the city. It has a Prezzo, FFS. One might say it's all rather village.

One might, particularly if one is accustomed to dining at Claridge's.

I'm with Inno and Biro on this, no great shock but, I dont see why the "ordinary chaps of Stonehouse" have seen such a great deal here, let's remember all the property was owned by the nation, not just Stonehouse rezzies but all of us. Not only does sharing it out between a couple of millionaire developers benefit either the rezzies or the nation? Just to give one example we as a nation paid to erect the lovely glass screen that runs around the perimeter next to the water, what do we get back from national companies? A small piece of tax and they don't pay much. At least half of the space in there should have been for local people making pasties, selling sandwiches, play areas and nurseries and obviously the bulk should have been affordable housing for local people. With the forts of Whitsands, Cawsands, Plymouth and Mountbatten being sold off over the last twenty years we as a nation should be rolling in cash and were skint, it would appear giving all our material assets to Costas isn't such good business sense after all. As for gated communities don't get me started on one of my old fishing spots Bovisands.

Amsterdamage wrote:

I'm with Inno and Biro on this, no great shock but, I dont see why the "ordinary chaps of Stonehouse" have seen such a great deal here, let's remember all the property was owned by the nation, not just Stonehouse rezzies but all of us. Not only does sharing it out between a couple of millionaire developers benefit either the rezzies or the nation? Just to give one example we as a nation paid to erect the lovely glass screen that runs around the perimeter next to the water, what do we get back from national companies? A small piece of tax and they don't pay much. At least half of the space in there should have been for local people making pasties, selling sandwiches, play areas and nurseries and obviously the bulk should have been affordable housing for local people. With the forts of Whitsands, Cawsands, Plymouth and Mountbatten being sold off over the last twenty years we as a nation should be rolling in cash and were skint, it would appear giving all our material assets to Costas isn't such good business sense after all. As for gated communities don't get me started on one of my old fishing spots Bovisands.

You mean the old Fort area at Bovisand....?? Diving crew ruined it for Fishing

harvetheslayer wrote:

Amsterdamage wrote:

I'm with Inno and Biro on this, no great shock but, I dont see why the "ordinary chaps of Stonehouse" have seen such a great deal here, let's remember all the property was owned by the nation, not just Stonehouse rezzies but all of us. Not only does sharing it out between a couple of millionaire developers benefit either the rezzies or the nation? Just to give one example we as a nation paid to erect the lovely glass screen that runs around the perimeter next to the water, what do we get back from national companies? A small piece of tax and they don't pay much. At least half of the space in there should have been for local people making pasties, selling sandwiches, play areas and nurseries and obviously the bulk should have been affordable housing for local people. With the forts of Whitsands, Cawsands, Plymouth and Mountbatten being sold off over the last twenty years we as a nation should be rolling in cash and were skint, it would appear giving all our material assets to Costas isn't such good business sense after all. As for gated communities don't get me started on one of my old fishing spots Bovisands.

You mean the old Fort area at Bovisand....??   Diving crew ruined it for Fishing

Yep, great spot for Mackerel and Gar, Bass right next to the wall, had a 35lb conger one night and reasonable pollack as well. Mainly used to fish off the front facing due south I would guess, the dive boats are in the little harbour behind that, no conflict at all.

Czarcasm wrote:

Sadly I don't get to eat at The Fat Duck every other week. As far a Pasta and Pizza houses go, I actually love Prezzo.

Me too, I'm not knocking Prezzo - more that the way people go on about William Yard, you'd think it is some kind of centre for Michelin-starred dining.....when actually, it's just a small piece of Plymouth out of the mould of stuff which is ten-a-penny in the south-east.

Rather than imitating London and the Home Counties (whilst pretending to be original) it'd be refreshing if Plymouth actually did something forward-thinking. Instead, you see Tudor Evans in The Guardian asking for 'more rich people'.

Czarcasm wrote:

If you exclude the old Royal Naval hospital site, then as a general rule, there is a quite specific North/South divide with the middle ground being Union St. South of that there has been multi-million pound development, particularly Millbay and the RWY. By contrast, the area around King St is still one of the most deprived and run down areas in England. But that shouldn't be used as a stick to beat the Yard with. Asking someone who lives in King St what they think of the RWY is totally different to asking a home owner in Durnford St. You'll probably get indifference from the first, followed by uber positivity from the latter.

On a map they may fall under the same geographic Stonehouse umbrella, but they are worlds apart in every other way. I have friends who live both in the RWY as well as long term residents not far from the gates. You won't find many around there bemoaning what RWY had done for the whole area. Indeed, ask a resident around the southern end of Durnford St where they live, and you're more likely to get a reply of "Firestone Bay" than "Stonehouse".

This is how I would interpret Stonehouse.

Wyndham Square is being used by Lord Bic to back up his thoughts on RWY. The two places aren't related.

I don't disagree with the mixed housing argument but where was the funding coming from?

The Council certainly had no money. It would be around the same time that they had to sell Home Park as they couldn't afford the upkeep.

There is clearly a big divide between home owners/landlords and non home owners/tenants.

It will only get worse with Cameron/Osborne in charge.

Amsterdamage wrote:

harvetheslayer wrote:

Amsterdamage wrote:

I'm with Inno and Biro on this, no great shock but, I dont see why the "ordinary chaps of Stonehouse" have seen such a great deal here, let's remember all the property was owned by the nation, not just Stonehouse rezzies but all of us. Not only does sharing it out between a couple of millionaire developers benefit either the rezzies or the nation? Just to give one example we as a nation paid to erect the lovely glass screen that runs around the perimeter next to the water, what do we get back from national companies? A small piece of tax and they don't pay much. At least half of the space in there should have been for local people making pasties, selling sandwiches, play areas and nurseries and obviously the bulk should have been affordable housing for local people. With the forts of Whitsands, Cawsands, Plymouth and Mountbatten being sold off over the last twenty years we as a nation should be rolling in cash and were skint, it would appear giving all our material assets to Costas isn't such good business sense after all. As for gated communities don't get me started on one of my old fishing spots Bovisands.

You mean the old Fort area at Bovisand....??   Diving crew ruined it for Fishing

Yep, great spot for Mackerel and Gar, Bass right next to the wall, had a 35lb conger one night and reasonable pollack as well. Mainly used to fish off the front facing due south I would guess, the dive boats are in the little harbour behind that, no conflict at all.

Grew up in the 70's with every weekend and Summer Holidays spent over there with fishing over the Fort pre Divers. As you say Gar Mackeral and Pollack galore then. Mother still owns one of the Cedarwood chalets otherside of 1st Beach

£100-120k for those now which cost £900 in 1971 !!

Ah fackit, you're right. Why should decent, law abiding, family orientated people have somewhere pleasant to eat, drink and be merry without the risk of running into marauding Plymouth bheys and birds or students effin and blinding, pissing in doorways and spewing up everywhere(Barbican/Mutley/North Hill/City Centre).

The scum who have the temerity to live, work or socialise in the RWY are a disgrace to the City. Should've just mothballed the place, or better still, filled it with students and refugees, it would've been so much more 'vibrant'.

Les Miserable wrote:

Ah fackit, you're right. Why should decent, law abiding, family orientated people have somewhere pleasant to eat, drink and be merry without the risk of running into marauding Plymouth bheys and birds or students effin and blinding, pissing in doorways and spewing up everywhere(Barbican/Mutley/North Hill/City Centre).

The scum who have the temerity to live, work or socialise in the RWY are a disgrace to the City. Should've just mothballed the place, or better still, filled it with students and refugees, it would've been so much more 'vibrant'.

Has Smith signed yet ?

AstiSpumante wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

Ah fackit, you're right. Why should decent, law abiding, family orientated people have somewhere pleasant to eat, drink and be merry without the risk of running into marauding Plymouth bheys and birds or students effin and blinding, pissing in doorways and spewing up everywhere(Barbican/Mutley/North Hill/City Centre).

The scum who have the temerity to live, work or socialise in the RWY are a disgrace to the City. Should've just mothballed the place, or better still, filled it with students and refugees, it would've been so much more 'vibrant'.

   Has Smith signed yet ?  

As an aside, next time anyone's in the Brewhouse building at Las Iguanas stood at the bar, have a glance up at the ceiling. The largest most prominent pipe there carries my mates Richard the Thirds through the restaurant from the apartment above!

AstiSpumante wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

Ah fackit, you're right. Why should decent, law abiding, family orientated people have somewhere pleasant to eat, drink and be merry without the risk of running into marauding Plymouth bheys and birds or students effin and blinding, pissing in doorways and spewing up everywhere(Barbican/Mutley/North Hill/City Centre).

The scum who have the temerity to live, work or socialise in the RWY are a disgrace to the City. Should've just mothballed the place, or better still, filled it with students and refugees, it would've been so much more 'vibrant'.

   Has Smith signed yet ?  

No, he was disgusted by the elitism emanating from those foreboding RWY walls and has decided to stay oop North, didn't fancy uprooting his whippets either.

Czarcasm wrote:

AstiSpumante wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

Ah fackit, you're right. Why should decent, law abiding, family orientated people have somewhere pleasant to eat, drink and be merry without the risk of running into marauding Plymouth bheys and birds or students effin and blinding, pissing in doorways and spewing up everywhere(Barbican/Mutley/North Hill/City Centre).

The scum who have the temerity to live, work or socialise in the RWY are a disgrace to the City. Should've just mothballed the place, or better still, filled it with students and refugees, it would've been so much more 'vibrant'.

   Has Smith signed yet ?  

As an aside, next time anyone's in the Brewhouse building at Las Iguanas stood at the bar, have a glance up at the ceiling. The largest most prominent  pipe there carries my mates Richard the Thirds through the restaurant from the apartment above!

Strangely that's the only place I haven't tried, and probably won't now . Love a bit of Wagamamas though, does the pipe extend that far

Les Miserable wrote:

AstiSpumante wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

Ah fackit, you're right. Why should decent, law abiding, family orientated people have somewhere pleasant to eat, drink and be merry without the risk of running into marauding Plymouth bheys and birds or students effin and blinding, pissing in doorways and spewing up everywhere(Barbican/Mutley/North Hill/City Centre).

The scum who have the temerity to live, work or socialise in the RWY are a disgrace to the City. Should've just mothballed the place, or better still, filled it with students and refugees, it would've been so much more 'vibrant'.

   Has Smith signed yet ?  

No, he was disgusted by the elitism emanating from those foreboding RWY walls and has decided to stay oop North, didn't fancy uprooting his whippets either.

FFS !! Stop it Les, you're cracking me up.

Pubs, socialism and architecture - if the mods could edit out the few mentions of Alan Smith, this thread would be perfect!

I heard (2nd hand, so take it for what you will) that at least one young Argyle player stayed at the RWY a couple of seasons back, and was unpopular with his neighbours due to his habit of entertaining a steady stream of young ladies at all hours. Made me smile. The person telling me this seemed to think it was indicative of the moral decline of the nation, but I did wonder if I (or indeed he) would do any different if I were young, single, locally famous and relatively well paid.

Anyway, I like the place because it's architecturally interesting, and a wonderful spot on a sunny day. It would still have been better with more mixed housing though. Where would the money come from? The developers of course. The council would have had the power to tell US that they were going to have to settle for merely making a lot of money, rather than lots and lots. Working with developers is a big part of my job - it happens all the time. The council at the time just seemed to roll over and let US tickle its belly.

Not much point getting in a lather about it now though. As someone else pointed out, the Mount Wise development does seem to hint at them getting a bit better in that regard. Life is all about variety. I'm as happy sitting outside the Seco Lounge in the sunshine as I am lurking in a corner in the Nowhere, or the Provi, or the Milly.

Living on the edge of St Peters for a few years, I tried the Melbourne (lovely building, dump, crap beer) and the Duchy (less of a dump, better beer) and avoided the Doghouse based on the fact that the first four times I walked past it, it either had a police meat wagon or an ambulance parked outside.

And Greenbank is certainly not dry. The Mutley Tavern and the Hill Park are sadly gone, but there's still some good boozers. I lost many a happy Sunday afternoon in the Clifton or Providence when I lived there.

Anyway, Alan Smith? I'm all for it. Unless he's crap...

Alan Who?

Back in the 90's we used to start in the Hill Park, then down to the Clifton and on to The Wellington  then it was on to The Friendship and The Providence and ended up in The Seymour. Used to love a North Hill run.

They do do a great selection of beers and ciders in The Trafalgar Bread and Roses  now.

Our preferred route was the Mutley, the Hill Park, Clifton, Provi, Nowhere (I went in the Friendship once after moving to the area, and found it distinctly unfriendly!) Seymour, Woodside, Trafalgar. Good, slightly wavy times.

And yeah, the B&R is very good, if a bit steep. Decent music nights too - bit of everything - and Tipp's Asian BBQ is spot on. Bit handwringing, but you get all sorts in there, from trendy students, to little old men, to pipe-smoking bell-ends. If I was still a Plymouth Bhey I'd fritter a lot of money away there...

RWY is not right wing enough for Les, I reckon he'd like to see it completely gated, keep all us lefties out. Missed the point entirely it's just things can always be better.
I only missed Czarky and Mike on their pub crawls by 10 and 20 years respectively, used to hang at a good mates place at HPC, the hill park was first, Clifton (where I was last year) Provvy, Welly, (now closed I'm told) then down to Eastgate St and the one on the corner was it the Union? Before Andy Howard in Woods, let's rock!
Nottingham was a great pub in its day as well. I walked around the RWY a couple of months ago just for a look, not my kind of place, thought I'd go and grab some lunch at Elviras and had to pay about £3 for parking cheeky coonts.

I did the Provi, Nowhere, Seymour and Bread and Roses this very mid Winter holiday, with another ATD user, as it happens. Bread and Roses is a bit dear, agreed, but it's a good community pub with cooperative/left leanings and worth supporting. Just about the best in the town. And I got a pint of ORGANIC lager there. Where else is that available in Plymouth ? Not at the workaday in polished heels William Yard, I'm sure. Not much call for it from beastly line managers and footballers.

And yet you claimed earlier Greenbank is a dry area.

Your contrariness and general awkwardness is fascinating.

I see Greenbank as East of those pubs. The dry area stretches down to the river, Mount Gould and St Judes, as everyone knows.
I see all the pubs mentioned, bar the Mutley Tavern, as North Hill. That's why it was colloquially named vinegar hill. North street, that is, starting from the tatty pedestrian underpsass of Exeter St, up to the Hill park. That old street was THE demarcation "riverway" with Greenbank to the East. I don't understand the Seymour, for instance, or the long closed Radnor, to be in Greenbank.

You can see it for what you like, but Greenbank residents and former residents know it's the area east and west of Greenbank Road. Take it up with the Greenbank residents association if you like though - I'm sure they'll be thrilled to know how they're wrong and you're right.

Oh, and obviously not all those pubs are strictly in Greenbank. Luckily they don't have border guards and passport checks when you're out on a crawl.

Exactly Mike.

Bic is a contrarian.

He's no Gore Vidal though.

Well, I've lived in Deptford Place and Mildmay St, and I can can assure you I understood it as North Hill. In fact, a few years back, there were small housing grants going for Greenbank. Never got as far as Deptford Place, I can assure you.

I am only responding in a pedantic mind, when it seems that's the mode of reference. I've never seen border guards in North Hill, true, but to get back to the Stonehouse thing, there certainly are border guards marching up and down at the castle entrance to the old Naval hospital. This whole thread in my mind was about newly created modern day urban castles, and the animals that inhabit them. Not pubs.

Anyway, back to Smudger. It's appearing he's a deal to fill the hole left by Boateng. I think it could be a smart bit of team building by Derek. Another domino in his plan