How are we going to meet the balloon payment?

I don't think for one moment that JB is sat back on the beach (in Dubai thinking ''I havn't even been in the water yet'') saying to himself ''It'll be OK on the night''. The last thing he needs is his name blackened by a complete footy failure. However I think ATDers and fans in general are correct to voice their concerns at this apparent early stage.

I say apparent because £5 by Saturday is one thing and £2 mill by Nov 16 is in a different league. The options are many including increased gates (+ 2000 as an average = £2 million roughly) or player sales (do we have players who are/could be financial saviours) or mortgages/re-mortgages or a wing and a prayer and pray for the massive cup tie or 3.

Interesting idea of the fans paying in and owning a part of the club. I don't often have £hundreds spare but if I lost £20 a month from now for 2 years I could cope. 2000 fans x £480 = £960K BUT as was pointed out not given to the club but stored safely away somewhere. If the club met the ballon without fans help then either a whooping party or used for club matters when needed.

I don't know the answer but I do have some faith in JB to crack it. JS has brought in some decent players so maybe JB and JS are going for the ''promotion push = higher gates'' which actually is win-win-win for all.

Isn't this ironic, in light of what we know now and what some have been predicting all along. Dontchafink ?

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Just change the photos. Same story,just different [not all] faeces.

Tringreen wrote:

Isn't this ironic, in light of what we know now and what some have been predicting all along. Dontchafink ?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Just change the photos. Same story,just different [not all] faeces.

I've never seen that video before. Its actually quite moving and I can see how Tringreen has linked that to todays scenario. I don't think the situation at HP today is of the same scale as it reached with the yobs from Japan and their gardener because JB has been investing.

I would show that to fans at any club who are screaming for their present Chairman / Board to sell to a ''consortium'' - be very very careful what you wish for.

Tringreen wrote:

Isn't this ironic, in light of what we know now and what some have been predicting all along. Dontchafink ?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Just change the photos. Same story,just different [not all] faeces.

I wonder if anyone can mess around with that and change the faces to Newell, Brent , Webb  etc

tigertony wrote:

I've never seen that video before. Its actually quite moving and I can see how Tringreen has linked that to todays scenario. I don't think the situation at HP today is of the same scale as it reached with the yobs from Japan and their gardener because JB has been investing.

I would show that to fans at any club who are screaming for their present Chairman / Board to sell to a ''consortium'' - be very very careful what you wish for.

Steady on Tiger...

First of all "their Gardener" was brought in by superjanner Stapleton, and not by the "yob" from Japan. A rather ironic term for someone who was suckered into investing in the first place and probably has more class than any of the rest of the shambles that have run Argyle in the last decade.

As for being careful what to wish for... Apart from liquidation, I can't think of much worse than James Brent.

'Brent has been investing'

Another classic.............https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrpuzNh8OJE

One area that does irritate me in life, not just footy, are the people that scream from the cheap seats ''that won't work'' or ''I wouldn't do it that way'' Then you stop mid-flow and say to them ''OK what would you do?''
They answer with ''Don't know but not that way'' Then then receive the icy cold tt stare and they slide back under the table.
So whilst some fans are saying ''JB out'' and ''the plans won't work'' I have yet to see any viable alternative discussed?
Any takers ?

'The icy cold stare'

Iggy wrote:
So what do you think should be done to remedy the situation Tring?

No idea, dear boy. I think it's now such a mess wherever you look, that only new owners of some substance and ambition could turn the club's fortunes around.
The chances of that happening now, given the parlous state the club is in, are probably negligible.

The unholy alliance of the reluctant one, the council, the 'erald and the bucket rattling superfans, is as depressing as it is predictably putrid for the football club. Chuck in a most uninspiring team manager, his ramshackle collection of backroom staff and failure is the almost certain outcome.

Another season of crap and even the Aviva foot soldiers will start to lose interest.

ps This thread and many others have offered suggestions. I tend to support solution 2, as a ministand , where most of the non match day income space is owned by the fine gentleman, is not the way to future success and self sufficiency.

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Oh and the divisive, my way or the highway, usual suspects must be kept on a tight leash.

ps Haven't you got a roof to replace for James today ?

_______________________________________
"Football attracts a certain percentage of nobodies who want to be somebodies at a football club" Brian Clough (RIP)

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Obviously a concept that's not universally accepted in the little Argyle world.!!

tigertony wrote:

One area that does irritate me in life, not just footy, are the people that scream from the cheap seats ''that won't work'' or ''I wouldn't do it that way''  Then you stop mid-flow and say to them ''OK what would you do?''
They answer with ''Don't know but not that way'' Then then receive the icy cold tt stare and they slide back under the table.
So whilst some fans are saying ''JB out'' and ''the plans won't work'' I have yet to see any viable alternative discussed?
Any takers ?

one thing that irritates the bejeesus out of me is being told to bend over and take it whilst the future of MY FECKIN FOOTBALL CLUB is completely destroyed by an ex etonian property developer whilst being used as a plaything by the social climbing fecktards that have enabled the asset strip,
as for a viable alternative, leave the feckin stand alone and get out of this dogshit league and maybe enough punters will come through the door so we can do the job properly.
can you not see yet that youve been mugged yet T? dear oh dear.

tigertony wrote:

I don't think for one moment that JB is sat back on the beach (in Dubai thinking ''I havn't even been in the water yet'') saying to himself ''It'll be OK on the night''. The last thing he needs is his name blackened by a complete footy failure. However I think ATDers and fans in general are correct to voice their concerns at this apparent early stage.

I say apparent because £5 by Saturday is one thing and £2 mill by Nov 16 is in a different league. The options are many including increased gates (+ 2000 as an average = £2 million roughly) or player sales (do we have players who are/could be financial saviours) or mortgages/re-mortgages or a wing and a prayer and pray for the massive cup tie or 3.

Interesting idea of the fans paying in and owning a part of the club. I don't often have £hundreds spare but if I lost £20 a month from now for 2 years I could cope. 2000 fans x £480 = £960K BUT as was pointed out not given to the club but stored safely away somewhere. If the club met the ballon without fans help then either a whooping party    or used for club matters when needed.

I don't know the answer but I do have some faith in JB to crack it. JS has brought in some decent players so maybe JB and JS are going for the ''promotion push = higher gates'' which actually is win-win-win for all.

i missed this one lmfao! you are a comedy genius T, feck me brents name was blackened by Oldway, the civic centre, now not having anywhere to put the icerink, saying that PCC and PCH were taking 16% of lettings that they didnt know about, feckin up HP is the icing on the cake mate, his name is blacker than mad jack Mc Black now with everybody but Nool, Ghoul and the brain dead minions.

Rickler wrote:

tigertony wrote:

I've never seen that video before. Its actually quite moving and I can see how Tringreen has linked that to todays scenario. I don't think the situation at HP today is of the same scale as it reached with the yobs from Japan and their gardener because JB has been investing.

I would show that to fans at any club who are screaming for their present Chairman / Board to sell to a ''consortium'' - be very very careful what you wish for.

Steady on Tiger...

First of all "their Gardener" was brought in by superjanner Stapleton, and not by the "yob" from Japan.  A rather ironic term for someone who was suckered into investing in the first place and probably has more class than any of  the rest of the shambles that have run Argyle in the last decade.

As for being careful what to wish for...  Apart from liquidation, I can't think of much worse than James Brent.

No. Gardener was bought in by the Japanese. Todd went to Japan and said to Kagami that he could bring in the former Chairman of Manchester United in return for control of the Japanese shares at the Board table - thus giving him control.

tigertony wrote:

One area that does irritate me in life, not just footy, are the people that scream from the cheap seats ''that won't work'' or ''I wouldn't do it that way''  Then you stop mid-flow and say to them ''OK what would you do?''
They answer with ''Don't know but not that way'' Then then receive the icy cold tt stare and they slide back under the table.
So whilst some fans are saying ''JB out'' and ''the plans won't work'' I have yet to see any viable alternative discussed?
Any takers ?

None at all.

Not even Mr Brent by the looks of it because "there is no Plan B", remember?

Punchdrunk wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Isn't this ironic, in light of what we know now and what some have been predicting all along. Dontchafink ?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Just change the photos. Same story,just different [not all] faeces.

I wonder if anyone can mess around with that and change the faces to Newell, Brent , Webb  etc

You can do it on your laptop, only problem is that you have to sign up to one of these photoshop sites in order to get it posted on a forum.

I have been faffing around with some photos [as had never done it before] and joined photobucket, posted my efforts onto certain threads on ATD...

tigertony wrote:

One area that does irritate me in life, not just footy, are the people that scream from the cheap seats ''that won't work'' or ''I wouldn't do it that way''  Then you stop mid-flow and say to them ''OK what would you do?''
They answer with ''Don't know but not that way'' Then then receive the icy cold tt stare and they slide back under the table.
So whilst some fans are saying ''JB out'' and ''the plans won't work'' I have yet to see any viable alternative discussed?
Any takers ?

The problem with your statement is you are asking people to come up with alternatives when it's very probable that no one has the money to suggest alternatives in the first place. "I have yet to see any viable alternative discussed" is on the one hand probably true but is also a very useful way of trying to shut up dissenters as they can't back up their arguments.

I say no one has any money, meaning, that we know of. No one knew about JB until the club was in deep trouble. How many people knew about Stapleton and the rest before they announced they would take the club off Mc.Cauley's hands? How many knew about Mc.Cauley?

During administration there was a campaign against Heaney because people suspected he didn't have any money but does anyone really know who or who wasn't backing him? Heaney was going to build all sorts of abominations at Home Park. Are the current plans any better? I saw the plans the NWO came up with and they were certainly as bad if not worse.

The problem appears to be that developers are trying to maximise the space at HP, one to pay for improvements to the stadium and two make as much money at the same time from the rest of the land. No body has yet come up with a satisfactory scheme for doing this. Satisfactory in it does what PAFC needs / or wants. Satisfactory in it doesn't fill a corner of Central Park with inappropriate development that is liable to be a white elephant in the future. Satisfactory in it provides the City of Plymouth with facilities that it needs or needs improving. The current plans IMO do none of those. The stadium is not to the required standard that fans of PAFC would expect an ambitious, forward moving club trying to get back to it's previous position to build. There are numerous examples of other clubs building bigger and better. There are none who are building to downsize. The rest of the development is liable to be a white elephant if it's even possible to sell or find tenants for aspects of it in the first place. The ice rink is probably better than the one at the Pavilions but isn't big enough for major ice hockey or ice shows. It's somewhere in between. If a development isn't up to scratch it shouldn't be built in the first place. The plans to expand the stadium in the future are pie in the sky. Shown by the fact fans can't find any construction professional anywhere who thinks it's economically viable or would comply with current guidelines.

Do I think JB is the anti-Christ? No I don't but neither do I think he's a messiah. He's a businessman who very kindly saved our club from liquidation. We don't really know whether anyone else would have come out of the woodwork or who they MIGHT have been backed by but for this argument I'll accept he was the only one who showed his hand. JB has always said he wasn't going to throw money at the club which is fair enough. There is always going to be the suspicion that one of the reasons he helped Argyle was access to the other possible development opportunities within Plymouth. Again no real problem with that. The problems start when his plans are not very popular with large sections of the fan base and indeed the citizens of Plymouth. JB is trying to build something that will eventually not cost him anything ( he hopes) and possibly make him some money in the end but IMO it's not good enough for PAFC or indeed the city. To be fair no one else has come up with a development that would do what we or the City of Plymouth would like to see either. Basically he has come up with ( or his staff have) a mish mash of components to try to fund the development which just don't work. I remember JB very early on during Argyle troubles saying he didn't think a hotel would work at HP. He was right! He can't find anyone to take it on if he built it. He can't find enough retailers to move into retail units in a park. He can't find anyone to take on a car park when there's two free car parks next door. ( To our knowledge at this moment in time, without any further information from either Akkeron or the club.)

Are there alternatives? Yes there is! Plymouth City Council should build a new grandstand with a new arena on the back. A multi purpose arena that could be used for major conferences, major rock concerts, ice hockey / ice shows, a new home for Plymouth Raiders and used for other sports as well. An arena that compliments the Life Centre and improves the sporting facilities a city the size of Plymouth needs and deserves. An arena that could have some eateries and sports bars included but not schools, medical centres, retail shops etc. This sort of plan was on the books when the Life Centre was planned but the council didn't have enough money and probably still haven't. The council ( or Tudor Evans) promised Argyle fans that our stadium would be finished and that is one of the reasons we now have JB at the helm but for all his efforts, good or bad he's struggling to provide what we want as well.

The only way for Argyle and the city to get what it really wants is for the council to find a way of funding and building the high class stand and sports facilities Plymouth wants. Not a half arsed development chucked together to provide the minimum stand and "continuous ice" that is required.

As for the "balloon payment"? I don't believe JB and the board are not working on a plan B,C or D to pay this off or cover it in some way. In fact I have had a couple of people tell me that the balloon payment is coming down and plans to cover it are in hand, if the new development fails to get off the ground. What we need if that's the case is the club to tell us what those plans are ( within reason) and convince the fan base that they are in control of the situation. Politicians statements saying absolutely nothing or getting El Pres. to make rallying statements that are even worse and say even less are not good enough.

Steady on Lord blight . That about sums it up for most fans with regards to how they see things going.

Indeed. Well said Richard.

We know there have been alternatives surely? I'm sure Brent has said he's had enquiries to look at selling the club, has he not or am I dreaming that one?

I love it when people spend all that time typing out just what I think but can't be arsed to put pen to paper for. Well said, Richard. I just live in hope that your scenario might unfold at some time, not too far, in the future.

Tringreen wrote:

Indeed. Well said Richard.

Well said, indeed.

There is a reason Sir Richard is a Sir...

Charlie Wood wrote:

I love it when people spend all that time typing out just what I think but can't be arsed to put pen to paper for. Well said, Richard. I just live in hope that your scenario might unfold at some time, not too far, in the future.

I was at a bit of a loose end waiting for carpet fitters to turn up. Barstewards turned up at 6.30 If I had known they would be that late I could have written War & Peace Very lucky escape you lot had

tigertony wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Isn't this ironic, in light of what we know now and what some have been predicting all along. Dontchafink ?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Just change the photos. Same story,just different [not all] faeces.

I've never seen that video before. Its actually quite moving and I can see how Tringreen has linked that to todays scenario. I don't think the situation at HP today is of the same scale as it reached with the yobs from Japan and their gardener because JB has been investing.

I would show that to fans at any club who are screaming for their present Chairman / Board to sell to a ''consortium'' - be very very careful what you wish for.

what a load of crap that video is. moving ? goodness me.
actually how much MONEY was actually put in by kagami and co and how much by brent ?

Iggy wrote:

tigertony wrote:

One area that does irritate me in life, not just footy, are the people that scream from the cheap seats ''that won't work'' or ''I wouldn't do it that way''  Then you stop mid-flow and say to them ''OK what would you do?''
They answer with ''Don't know but not that way'' Then then receive the icy cold tt stare and they slide back under the table.
So whilst some fans are saying ''JB out'' and ''the plans won't work'' I have yet to see any viable alternative discussed?
Any takers ?

one thing that irritates the bejeesus out of me is being told to bend over and take it whilst the future of MY FECKIN FOOTBALL CLUB is completely destroyed by an ex etonian property developer whilst being used as a plaything by the social climbing fecktards that have enabled the asset strip,
as for a viable alternative, leave the feckin stand alone and get out of this dogshit league and maybe enough punters will come through the door so we can do the job properly. can you not see yet that youve been mugged yet T? dear oh dear.

Now we're talking - I've been preaching that for a while on t'other site. I think the new 3 sides and the present grandstand - perhaps with a bit of joining up and new seats - looks really good. Sort out the Mayflower and .. bang ... new but nostalgic and then plough every penny into the team to get out of this sheite league.

I think there could be quite a lot of support for that idea. Contrary to popular opinion the general structure of the grandstand appears to be in good order. I wouldn't know how much a general refurbishment involving new seats, new toilets, changing rooms, painting and any other repairs would cost but it must be less than a total rebuild. Better corporate / conference facilities could be built on the back as and when money could be found. The terracing on the front has had seats before and can have them again. Turning that terracing into a " safe standing area " is also an interesting thought. Filling in the corners to marry up with the grandstand could also be done when money is available.

The only reason the grandstand looks tired is because of a lack of maintenance.

The Grandstand and Mayflower has to go...  Anyone who wants to keep them is nuts.

It's just a big cowshed.  If it was at any other ground, Argyle fans would laugh at it.

Any notion that it has some sort of 'artistic' value is delusional.

It's hideous.

When the seats were bolted on to the Mayflower, any statto's know what the exact capacity of the stand was? Whatever that figure is, THAT is the absolute minimum that any new structure should have, capacity-wise.

Of course the stand needs replacing, but until somebody comes along that has the vision and wherewithal to deliver a Grandstand worthy of the name, then we need to leave well alone. With the mentality that pervades generally in these parts any new structure needs to be properly future-proof because it will be there for decades. Building a pathetic joke of a stand and boxing it in kills Argyles future hopes and dreams.

Brent is up shit creek and you can bet your bottom dollar he's exploring every avenue to try and cut more costs from his original budget. That's only going to result in Argyle getting an even worse 'structure' than was first planned.

The Cnut can't be allowed to get away with it.