Football Stadiums

I'm thinking of writing a piece about how football has dropped identity for convenience with regards to its stadiums. The mass production of identikit stadiums has given football stadiums a rather bland image. I was looking through the stadiums that'll be hosting matches at the world cup. They're all impressive in terms of the sheer size and capacity of them, but other than the different colour of seats you can't really tell the Estadio Nacional de Brasilia apart from the Arena Fonte Nova or the Arena Castelão. I must say I really like the Arena de São Paulo with its views behind the goals though!

Anyway, was wondering what thoughts you all had regarding identikits and what replaced/renovated/forgotten grounds you miss or admired?

Form follows function.

Biggest shame for me about most new stadia was that they didn't have to be identikit.Rangers,Celtic,Norwich and Ipswich among others developed their current grounds to the optimum after the Taylor report and subsequent move to all seaters in spite of their inner city locations,i suppose the lure of selling a prime piece of real estate was too tempting for clubs such as Leicester and Southampton,although to be fair they were pretty cramped at their old locations.St Mary's and the Walker stadium [or whatever it's called now]are just horrible featureless bowls,the best total new build that i visited was Pride Park,at least there is a semblance of character and non conformity about the design,couldn't ever compare it to the Baseball ground as far as atmosphere was concerned though.Many of the old grounds were cavernous,dark and about as inviting as a railway station shithouse but they could certainly generate atmosphere.Ayresome Park was lively,as was Ninian park and the old Den was bone chillingly noisy and frankly bleddy scary.I suppose it's swings and roundabouts really-those places mentioned did have characters of their own but there was also the distinct back of the mind feeling that you were risking a kicking by entering them.

If you want to read about how The Dell, Baseball Ground, Ayresome Park, Filbert Street and many others played such a part in the fabric of their communities then this is a good read:

Fields of Dreams

Dick Trickle wrote:

If you want to read about how The Dell, Baseball Ground, Ayresome Park, Filbert Street and many others played such a part in the fabric of their communities then this is a good read:

Fields of Dreams

It was interesting to see this written in one of the reviews of the book "It gave me some faith in that whilst modern football is a sport which is dominated and run by souless buisnessmen, it still remains as something that is owned by the fans." I'm not sure that's true at all any longer.

I have Simon Inglis' book "The Football Grounds of England and Wales" and that presents a superb overview of grounds now gone. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Football-Grounds-England-Wales-Inglis/dp/0002180243/ref=pd_sim_b_5?ie=UTF8&refRID=18J9MRJH0013S1HGRJN0

One of the things we are losing is the setting of football grounds within a community. Highfield Road, Villa Park, Fellows Park, Manor Ground come to mind as grounds where you could step out of your door & immediately join a queue to a turnstile because the houses were so close. I'd have no problem with that - even welcome it - if their replacements weren't soul-less clones. I never went to Northampton's old ground - where they actually played in the old First Division - but from the pictures I've seen that was certainly a ground with character! The new Sixfields is an awful place!

Thanks guys, cheers for the book recommendations and all the different examples of grounds. This article is writing itself   

This has got to be the best website for football stadium facts and figures:

http://www.footballgroundguide.com/

spowell92 wrote:

Thanks guys, cheers for the book recommendations and all the different examples of grounds. This article is writing itself   

Make sure we're bloody referenced!

And here's a shot of the demolition of Filbert Street that shows the proximity of the houses.

I think it was in the very top corner of that stand that I sat. The rake was so steep, I was afraid to stand up in case I fell. But then I am afraid of heights.

I loved Simon Inglis's book. It came out in 1983, when I was 13. As a teenager I would sit and read about all these famous and not so famous football grounds. Hooked I was, couldn't put the book down.

I'd agree with the other point with regards to being central within the community. I quite liked Filbert Street although you had to be on your toes when visiting. He was in a position with further editions to document the impact of Bradford and Hillsborough.

Not only do we have out of town bowls but we've also lost floodlights. A great shame.

Dick Trickle wrote:

I loved Simon Inglis's book. It came out in 1983, when I was 13. As a teenager I would sit and read about all these famous and not so famous football grounds. Hooked I was, couldn't put the book down.

I'd agree with the other point with regards to being central within the community. I quite liked Filbert Street although you had to be on your toes when visiting. He was in a position with further editions to document the impact of Bradford and Hillsborough.

Not only do we have out of town bowls but we've also lost floodlights. A great shame.

Same here,very compelling.He did a follow up a few years later and in the section on Argyle/Home Park,the last paragraph was as follows;

"At the time of writing [1996],talks are ongoing with the council over plans not only for Home Park but the whole Central Park area.These plans might involve Plymouth Albion,who own their own ground half a mile away.Or they might not.They might end up with plans for a brand new superstadium.Or they might just end up with Argyle building the new Devonport stand.Or maybe not.

Because when you have become accustomed to unfilled potential,it's all too easy to set your sights low.Even if your site seems in every other way perfect."

How very true,even more so today than in 1996.

Greenskin wrote:

Dick Trickle wrote:

I loved Simon Inglis's book. It came out in 1983, when I was 13. As a teenager I would sit and read about all these famous and not so famous football grounds. Hooked I was, couldn't put the book down.

I'd agree with the other point with regards to being central within the community. I quite liked Filbert Street although you had to be on your toes when visiting. He was in a position with further editions to document the impact of Bradford and Hillsborough.

Not only do we have out of town bowls but we've also lost floodlights. A great shame.

Same here,very compelling.He did a follow up a few years later and in the section on Argyle/Home Park,the last paragraph was as follows;

"At the time of writing [1996],talks are ongoing with the council over plans not only for Home Park but the whole Central Park area.These plans might involve Plymouth Albion,who own their own ground half a mile away.Or they might not.They might end up with plans for a brand new superstadium.Or they might just end up with Argyle building the new Devonport stand.Or maybe not.

Because when you have become accustomed to unfilled potential,it's all too easy to set your sights low.Even if your site seems in every other way perfect."

How very true,even more so today than in 1996.

Fantastic and very apt quote that GS.

knecht wrote:

And here's a shot of the demolition of Filbert Street that shows the proximity of the houses.

I think it was in the very top corner of that stand that I sat. The rake was so steep, I was afraid to stand up in case I fell. But then I am afraid of heights.

I do believe Wolves purchased a whole street and demolished it in the 1970's to make way for the big stand that still dominates the ground.Mind you,they nearly went out of existence in paying for it but i suppose it benefitted them in the long term.

I used to go to Wolves when they were good back in the 70s (The Doog, Phil Parkes, Mike Bailey, Kenny Hibbitt etc). I've never heard a crowd that moaned more than the Wolves crowd. "Same old Argyle" had nothing on them!

But Molyneux was packed with atmosphere at most matches. Really exciting to be there. You always got the sense that this was a club & a ground with history. It was a privilege to go there. I haven't been back since it was redeveloped. Am I right in remembering that the pitch was actually turned 90 degrees when the big development took place?

knecht wrote:

I never went to Northampton's old ground - where they actually played in the old First Division - but from the pictures I've seen that was certainly a ground with character! The new Sixfields is an awful place!

You never missed anything Knecht. If there was such a thing as an old soul less ground this was it. They had one end which was the hotel end behind the goal which you could probably compare with the old Devonport End but apart from that nothing.
One end was completely open and one side was completely open as this where Northants CC played their cricket and the grandstand was nothing to write home about either.
As bland as is it Sixfields is still a vast improvement on the old County Ground.

gasser9 wrote:

knecht wrote:

I never went to Northampton's old ground - where they actually played in the old First Division - but from the pictures I've seen that was certainly a ground with character! The new Sixfields is an awful place!

You never missed anything Knecht. If there was such a thing as an old soul less ground this was it. They had one end which was the hotel end behind the goal which you could probably compare with the old Devonport End but apart from that nothing.
One end was completely open and one side was completely open as this where Northants CC played their cricket and the grandstand was nothing to write home about either.
As bland as is it Sixfields is still a vast improvement on the old County Ground.

Never missed anything?

I can't imagine a ground like that anywhere else in the world?

knecht wrote:

I used to go to Wolves when they were good back in the 70s (The Doog, Phil Parkes, Mike Bailey, Kenny Hibbitt etc). I've never heard a crowd that moaned more than the Wolves crowd. "Same old Argyle" had nothing on them!

But Molyneux was packed with atmosphere at most matches. Really exciting to be there. You always got the sense that this was a club & a ground with history. It was a privilege to go there. I haven't been back since it was redeveloped. Am I right in remembering that the pitch was actually turned 90 degrees when the big development took place?

Wolves where most successful in the early 1950's...under Stan Cullis and captain Billy Wright.....they woke everyone up by playing friendlies against the best sides in the world....this is before the European Cup etc. The Hungarians from Honved,Moscow Dynamo & Spartak I believe,plus others who's names I can't remember....played in the mist and fog of those long off days.

knecht wrote:

I used to go to Wolves when they were good back in the 70s (The Doog, Phil Parkes, Mike Bailey, Kenny Hibbitt etc). I've never heard a crowd that moaned more than the Wolves crowd. "Same old Argyle" had nothing on them!

But Molyneux was packed with atmosphere at most matches. Really exciting to be there. You always got the sense that this was a club & a ground with history. It was a privilege to go there. I haven't been back since it was redeveloped. Am I right in remembering that the pitch was actually turned 90 degrees when the big development took place?

I don't think the pitch was turned but when they built the new stand there was a gap of about 25 yards between it and the nearest touchline-presumably this was to accomodate planned upgrading and eventual pitch alignment of the other three sides of the ground.Went to see Argyle there a few times in the 1980's and it was only the new stand and the huge terracing behind one of the goals open-the other two sides were closed and the place looked very derelict,it was only Haywards money some time later that enabled them to complete the development and very good it is too.You're right about the critical crowd as well-it was the same at Portsmouth,probably a lot of fans could remember their glory days and didn't hesitate to let the current players know in the bluntest and most abusive terms that they weren't measuring up.

Definitely bucket rattling Argiggle. Couldn't be an other big city club.

Quote:
"At the time of writing [1996],talks are ongoing with the council over plans not only for Home Park but the whole Central Park area.These plans might involve Plymouth Albion,who own their own ground half a mile away.Or they might not.They might end up with plans for a brand new superstadium.Or they might just end up with Argyle building the new Devonport stand.Or maybe not.

Because when you have become accustomed to unfilled potential,it's all too easy to set your sights low.Even if your site seems in every other way perfect."
.....................................................
Sean Ingle's piece in the Guardian [2005] mainly aimed at PL fans[but it is relevant to others] has it spot on, too.

Quote:
Football fans are idiots. Or, to rephrase that sentence using less incendiary language: when it comes to football, intelligent people act stupid. And yes, that probably includes you.

After all, you remain hooked on a sport that has, over the past decade, become as competitive as a F1 warm-up lap - while at the same time taking ever-larger chunks out of your salary. Smart people would stand up to such exploitation. Football fans prefer to revel in their "hardcore" commitment.

Even if a match is shunted to some unholy hour to accommodate Sky, you think nothing of travelling hundreds of miles to sit in a stadium with all the atmosphere of a wake, to show loyalty to your club. The same club that's always thinking of ingenious new ways to bleed you dry.

When it comes to football, your rationality goes awol. You worship players who are at best indifferent to you, and at worst despise you. If a referee makes a dubious decision against your team, he's a wanker or a cheat. And if a journalist writes something you disagree with, he carries a vendetta.

Your idiocy doesn't end there. For you take more interest in pre-season friendlies - games which are, without exception, about as meaningful as Gazza's comedy breasts - than the growing inequality between football's haves and have-nots and what to do about it.

In short, you're an idiot.

................................
You can find most of Argiggle's idiots pictured on GOS most weeks. It's like a recurring 'who's who ?' of the idiots who'll do anything for the perceived limelight.


 

Greenskin wrote:

knecht wrote:

I used to go to Wolves when they were good back in the 70s (The Doog, Phil Parkes, Mike Bailey, Kenny Hibbitt etc). I've never heard a crowd that moaned more than the Wolves crowd. "Same old Argyle" had nothing on them!

But Molyneux was packed with atmosphere at most matches. Really exciting to be there. You always got the sense that this was a club & a ground with history. It was a privilege to go there. I haven't been back since it was redeveloped. Am I right in remembering that the pitch was actually turned 90 degrees when the big development took place?

I don't think the pitch was turned but when they built the new stand there was a gap of about 25 yards between it and the nearest touchline-presumably this was to accomodate planned upgrading and eventual pitch alignment of the other three sides of the ground.Went to see Argyle there a few times in the 1980's and it was only the new stand and the huge terracing behind one of the goals open-the other two sides were closed and the place looked very derelict,it was only Haywards money some time later that enabled them to complete the development and very good it is too.You're right about the critical crowd as well-it was the same at Portsmouth,probably a lot of fans could remember their glory days and didn't hesitate to let the current players know in the bluntest and most abusive terms that they weren't measuring up.

I went to the new Molineux back when we played them in the Championship. I thought it was a horrible stadium for comfort, the seats were closer together than at Loftus Road so leg room was nil. It was as draughty as hell owing to the gaps in the corners and on a bitterly cold day it made for 90 minutes of misery even though it was a good match. Character wise it was excellent, I much prefer the four single stands to the copycat stadium kits of the bowl design. Their fans were a great laugh and a friendly bunch in the pub before but all they wanted to talk about was the cost of sending them an Ivor's!

gasser9 wrote:

.....
You never missed anything Knecht. If there was such a thing as an old soul less ground this was it. They had one end which was the hotel end behind the goal which you could probably compare with the old Devonport End but apart from that nothing.
One end was completely open and one side was completely open as this where Northants CC played their cricket and the grandstand was nothing to write home about either.
As bland as is it Sixfields is still a vast improvement on the old County Ground.

Exactly - all of that makes it an interesting ground. I've only heard about it & seen the pictures.

A description of it here. It's also interesting to see one of the pictures with the turnstiles actually butting onto the house next to the entrance! You can't get much more grounded (pun intended) in a community than that. The difference between Sixfields & the old Northampton Ground is the difference between some airbrushed "perfect" page 3/porn "model" & a beautiful older woman with character. Sixfields may be functional but without character.

It crosses my mind as I'm writing this that one reason that grounds are moving away from centres of population is the increasing mobility of supporters. Whereas people would often walk or catch buses to watch a match, nowadays the car rules & that requires a much more developed transport infrastructure.

knecht wrote:

gasser9 wrote:

.....
You never missed anything Knecht. If there was such a thing as an old soul less ground this was it. They had one end which was the hotel end behind the goal which you could probably compare with the old Devonport End but apart from that nothing.
One end was completely open and one side was completely open as this where Northants CC played their cricket and the grandstand was nothing to write home about either.
As bland as is it Sixfields is still a vast improvement on the old County Ground.

Exactly - all of that makes it an interesting ground. I've only heard about it & seen the pictures.

A description of it here. It's also interesting to see one of the pictures with the turnstiles actually butting onto the house next to the entrance! You can't get much more grounded (pun intended) in a community than that. The difference between Sixfields & the old Northampton Ground is the difference between some airbrushed "perfect" page 3/porn "model" & a beautiful older woman with character. Sixfields may be functional but without character.

It crosses my mind as I'm writing this that one reason that grounds are moving away from centres of population is the increasing mobility of supporters. Whereas people would often walk or catch buses to watch a match, nowadays the car rules & that requires a much more developed transport infrastructure.

Bramall Lane was also a cricket ground at one time;

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/ground/57296.html

Looking at the picture,i would say that the present Kop would be where the covered terrace is to the right-the picture is taken from where the main stand is now,probably from the old cricket pavillion in fact.

Either standards of cricket playing surfaces were lower in those days or footballers had to play in slippers on such pitches! There's no way that there could be ground-sharing now for cricket & football.

I'd never seen The Dell's Milton Road Stand before doing research for this article! I still can't find out why on earth it was built with that slope though? Brilliantly bizarre!

Really miss the old Lyndhurst, always an excellent atmosphere, generous leg room and good view.