CCC debts in 2012-13

This is eye-watering!



Highest debts: Bolton 164m, Leicester 111m, Brighton 101m, Ipswich 78m, Boro 74m, Hull 72m, Cardiff 70m.

So Cardiff are more in debt than they were in the CCC even after unlocking the funds with promotion? Blows the argument out of the water that we would afford a stadium upgrade with the money from promotion.

Wages.



Highest wages: Bolton £37m, Blackburn £37m, Cardiff £33m, Wolves £31m, Leicester £26m, Hull £26m.

Almost a direct correlation between wages and debt. Eye watering indeed. Most interesting though. Thanks, SFD.

Iggy wrote:

So Cardiff are more in debt than they were in the CCC even after unlocking the funds with promotion? Blows the argument out of the water that we would afford a stadium upgrade with the money from promotion.

This is their promotion season.

Commercial revenue.



Highest commercial revenue: Leeds £14.7m, Brighton £9.9m, Watford £7.8m, Wolves £7.6m.

But it's all about responsible and manageable debt sfd..... and the influence that being an owner or supporter of a club that influences where we go...

How does Bolton responsibly manage £170m of debt when commercial income is only £6m and the wage bill is £38m? I realise they have parachute payments (£20m per annum?) and that their home crowd is averaging about 16000.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

How does Bolton responsibly manage £170m of debt when commercial income is only £6m  and the wage bill is £38m? I realise they have parachute payments (£20m per annum?) and that their home crowd is averaging about 16000.

At the end of the line as we both know there will be mechanics to try and absorb the shortfalls, not least the owners and sponsors. The realities will never be published and to be fair should they be ?

They should be because it amounts to fraud.

We both know that Bolton is going to end up in administration at which point most of that £170m will be written off.

Then given that they have a large, modern stadium someone will come along and off they go again.

Leaving somebody or somebodies somewhere seriously out of pocket.

You might think that's acceptable and just the way it is (I don't know if that is true or not so if it isn't I apologise in advance), and that is the way it is fore shore, but I think it is scandalous and that whoever is responsible should be imprisoned.

The wider picture is that just about all of the CCC clubs are in the same boat which impies that the governance of the game is in a very, very sorry state because, the administration option apart, it cannot be sustainable.

nikkk wrote:

At the end of the line as we both know there will be  mechanics to try and absorb the shortfalls, not least the owners and sponsors. The realities will never be published and to be fair should they be ?

"Mechanics"... What sort of thing would that be?

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

They should be because it amounts to fraud.

We both know that Bolton is going to end up in administration at which point most of that £170m will be written off.

Then given that they have a large, modern stadium someone will come along and off they go again.

Leaving somebody or somebodies somewhere seriously out of pocket.

You might think that's acceptable and just the way it is (I don't know if that is true or not so if it isn't I apologise in advance), and that is the way it is fore shore, but I think it is scandalous and that whoever is responsible should be imprisoned.

The wider picture is that just about all of the CCC clubs are in the same boat which impies that the governance of the game is in a very, very sorry state because, the administration option apart, it cannot be sustainable.

Yep governance sadly lacking. Blackburn, Charlton, Bolton all accidents waiting to happen along with several others if promotion to the promised land eludes them for much longer.

Any companies providing a service to some of those clubs need to look out.

Pay you by BACS within 90 days... yeah sure!

Looks like commerical activity is just about keeping leeds afloat.
Bolton wont get 16k next season they were expecting promotion this season.

The reason Bolton can carry such debt is because they owe the vast majority to a seriously minted genuine fan who's unlikely to ever call it in.

The same situation exists at Bristol City. Steve Lansdown wiped out £35m of debt in one foul swoop by converting the debt to shares, which he then bought. He's the equivalent of a Jack Walker or a Dave Whelan who are real proper fans who are willing to lose their own money for the love of their club.

Elias wrote:

Looks like commerical activity is just about keeping leeds afloat.
Bolton wont get 16k next season they were expecting promotion this season.

For a town club [pop 129k] only 10 miles from Manchester, they do pretty well attendance wise because of their history. I wouldn't expect the figures to drop much at all for a good few years if they continue to struggle. Norwich and Southampton maintain a hardcore of 20k plus, even in the third tier. Just as Argyle would, if we had their history and a 25k stadium with scope for expansion.

So where do we purchase such history....we don't do we....pie in the sky...just like a 25,000 stadium.....welcome to reality and the facts here and now.

We can't purchase a history of course, unless someone with a wad and some vision buys the club and we get one that way, like Reading for instance.

After the Holloway debacle and the outclassed board refusing to not cash in on their minimal investment, I would have preferred a phoenix club, Trust owned, with an executive comprising of articulate visionaries, not the self promoting bucket rattlers currently being used as a shield by our asset stripper. Our latent fanbase is large and I'm sure there would be a groundswell of support for such a club.
Once the club emerged from the wilderness, profitable and was on a roll, it could be marketed far and wide as England's biggest city club, ready for lift off !

Hindsight knowledge can be so wonderful ?
 
But decisions are not taken at the time with such knowledge....if it was then Argyle would be winning the Premiership , Champions League & World Club Championship every year.
 
Most owners and directors try their best....sometimes they get it right....sometimes they get it wrong.....and when they get it wrong all the know-all experts come out of the woodwork and tell them were they went wrong.....using their wonderful hindsight knowledge......if only they had come foreward earlier and helped mere human beings who run the club...then we would be winners of the Premiership,Champions League & World Club Champions all the time....aren't these people so so selfish to withhold their abilities ?

What about people who could see the writing on the wall, tried to air their concerns, but were dismissed and effectively silenced?