Brexit - Leave or Remain poll

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Has anyone actually met any of these Syrians who have flooded into the UK?

This chap obviously has;

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Oh dear, the cultural marxist is trolling again.
I guess Franny's utopian England would be modelled on the Jungle in Calais.
"You're all waycist, it said so in the Guardian".

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

It's not surprising that refugees are given so little consideration, is it?

Perhaps as much as you give the elderly?

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Can somebody explain to me how "they do though think that one nation should be England not some multi cultural hell hole" is not implicity racist?

England, and the wider British Isles, has always been a "multi cultural hell hole" should you be inclined to describe it thus.

The "English" did not evolve on this island or even on the near land mass when there was land bridge to the rest of what is now mainland Europe. Every single person who ever lived and breathed here arrived at some point in their ancestry from elsewhere. I am an immigrant and the chances are that everybody reading this is an immigrant too.

Even the name "England" is taken from the Angles and they were a northern Germanic tribe. Our current royal family takes the name Windsor or sometimes Mountbatten because Battenberg was considered to be too German sounding (which it is because it is German). The Queen is ethnically more Euro-German than British, her husband is Greek so there's precious little "English" bloodline in her and less in her kids.

Pretty much with the Angles came Saxons and Jutes (also northern Germanic) before them came the Celts (southern Germanic) and in between came the Romans (southern European) except the Romans themselves weren't Italian as we understand it today but a mongrel hotch potch of ethnicities from across their empire. After the Angles, Saxons and Jutes came the Vikings (Scandinavian) and Normans (French) who actually created what became known as modern England (before then it had been a heptarchy not a monarchy) from Wessex, Essex, East Anglia, Mercia, Northumbria, Kent and Sussex.

The English crown was taken by 4 x Georges who were Hanoverian (German) in the 1700s. The House Of  Hanover was replaced by Queen Victoria who merged the Hanoverians with House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (both German) when she married.

The British Empire opened up Britain to pretty much every race from every corner of the Earth, we have always been a refuge for those fleeing persecution in Europe from the Hugenots, Palatines, Jews fleeing from the pogroms of Tsarist Russia long before they fled from Hitler's nazi regime.

The Battle Of Britian, arguably this country's finest hour and the most iconic symbol of our nationhood, was fought and won by the RAF which did not hesitate to recruit from anywhere it could: Irishmen, Sikhs, Muslims, Poles, Americans and many others gave their lives just as our "British" pilots did. Just as the generations before them did in WW1.

Our borders have always been open in so far as Ireland is concerned. There has never been any restriction on them coming here. We have recuited people from the Carribean and the Indian sub-continent because we needed the workers and with them came a revolution in the cuisine we eat and the music we listen to.

Even our language is imported. From a Latin base it has assimilated words, sounds and phrases from all of the sources listed above. Not even "english" evolved solely here.

To be English is to be British is to be European and each and every one of them is a chaotic hotch potch of mongrel bloodlines from God alone knows where and with those bloodlines come other various multi-cultural influences: arts, science, trade, industry, fashion, cuisine, sport. Multi-culturalism is here. It has always been here. It makes us what we are. It drives our industry, sciences and creativity and is the turbo-charger on the engine of our economy. The clock cannot be turned back and nor should it be.

If you want to deny our history, disavow our language, rubbish our culture, denigrate our food and disparage the memories of those who won the Battle Of Britain for us then by all means campaign for the avoidance of a "multi-cultural hellhole" but please, please, please don't even begin to deny that that aim is not tainted by implicit racism.

Because even if you cannot see it it is.

I bet you're a right good laugh at parties, Franny.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

You never stop sending them.

What about the USA, Russia, Australia or other countries with large land masses helping out.

Of course we never stop. Of course.

We can't really do much to force the hand of other countries but we could set an example that shames them into action. This isn't just the UK's problem, nor is it just Europe's either.

Back to lifeboats.

There's a tale in our local heritage that shows what we should do. That is if Lynton & Lynmouth and Porlock count as local - they are in the same county (or Somerset by an inch or two on a map) so it's local enough for me and if local doesn't apply then regional and national certainly does.

Lynton, Lynmouth and Porlock are little places on the coast at the bottom of incredibly steep hills and winding roads. In 1899 L&L had a lifeboat station which tried to launch its boat to save a stricken vessel in a huge storm. Sadly it was too rough, the tide and wind were all wrong; they could not launch.

Rather than just watch the stricken vessel flounder and the crew drown they decided to man-handle their lifeboat up the hill and down the next to Porlock and try from there. To do so they had to widen roads and knock down walls to make roads passable for their lifeboat. Every last man, woman and child in the area set to the task and against all the odds a feat of heroic, super-human valour was achieved. Despite pouring rain and a howling gale the lifeboat was launched and the crew of the stricken vessel was saved.

If you've never been to any of those places then pop up there one day and have a look around. My telling of the tale does it scant justice. The terrain they crossed... well it beggars belief.

That is what you do to help people in danger of drowning - whoever they are.

That is, a tiny part of, the heritage, my heritage, our heritage that makes me proud to be British. A heritage that demands that we do not simply do nothing to help those in need of it.

A heritage many seem to rejoice in denying.

How utterly distasteful & disrespectful that you try to align heroes of our past with your way of thinking.
None of them would have advocated importing all the worst aspects of the middle east into Britain & turning our wonderful country into a third world shit hole.

So nobody can, or at least has even attempted to so far, explain how "they do though think that one nation should be England not some multi cultural hell hole" is not implicity racist then?

I guess I must be right.

The only argument against that I can think of is that it is explicitly, not implicitly, racist.

How do you (Rollo) know that 1 in 10 is possibly the case? Unless that is you are including Australian barman, French bankers and Canadian Heads of English Banks? Where do you think the Carney millions will be heading once he's finished his stint in London? Are they right type of economic migrant?

Indeed is there a "right" economic migrant?

I had my teeth done this week on the NHS by a lovely Indian woman. We had a quick chat about where she came from because I've lived in India. She openly admitted that three generations of her family rely on her sending home part of her salary.

How dare she come over here, this economic "refugee". She's not here to live permanently and said she'll return to Mumbai in due course. What right has she got to provide NHS services when the system has failed. Absolute disgrace.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

So nobody can, or at least has even attempted to so far, explain how "they do though think that one nation should be England not some multi cultural hell hole" is not implicity racist then?

I guess I must be right.

No I was having my tea. I missed that bit because I tend to skip a lot of what he writes much as I do with you, we all know the gist. Maybe Tis is a racist not for me to defend him. I don't advocate "sending everybody home" but I don't support you and your "take the borders down we'll all be better off" approach. I don't think we have the infrastructure, resources or room. I'm not racist, I hate racists. The European issue for me and I would suggest most people I know is an economic one, not a race one.

Dick Trickle wrote:

How do you (Rollo) know that 1 in 10 is possibly the case? Unless that is you are including Australian barman, French bankers and Canadian Heads of English Banks? Where do you think the Carney millions will be heading once he's finished his stint in London? Are they right type of economic migrant?

Indeed is there a "right" economic migrant?

I had my teeth done this week on the NHS by a lovely Indian woman. We had a quick chat about where she came from because I've lived in India. She openly admitted that three generations of her family rely on her sending home part of her salary.

How dare she come over here, this economic "refugee". She's not here to live permanently and said she'll return to Mumbai in due course. What right has she got to provide NHS services when the system has failed. Absolute disgrace.

Sky News reported that 375,000 Syrian refugees crossed into Europe in 2015.

A fair guess might be that 150,000 would be of the male working type. That would leave the remainder to be women and children.

And yet Germany alone accepted over 1,000,000 migrants in the same year.

Add in Greece, Italy, France, Sweden, etc and you get a different picture.

Economic migrants dwarf the refugees.

As for your clumsy Indian tale.

Direct your anger at India where the latest data shows 1.2% of GDP spent on their NHS yet 2.7% spent on the military.

I swear some on here live in la la land.

For what it's worth you can add my REMAIN vote to the score.

Richard Blight wrote:

For what it's worth you can add my REMAIN vote to the score.

Me too. That's two of us.

Fancy a trip down the pub?

I still haven't heard one coherent answer from the exiteers to the current migrant crisis. Not one.
Come on Exiteers, what's your great answer, your great policy that is going to solve the spreading crisis. Keep yer head, build a wall, and hope it all blows over ? How is that going to work in the real world ?
Genuinely interested. I haven't heard an answer anywhere yet.
The exiteers go on and on about the fear campaign of Cameron/the capitalist bank of england etc, but surely their tales of doom regarding the migrant hordes sinking these islands is no more than the same sort of fear campaign.
I saw Boris was caught with his hypocritical trousers down today. Naughty Boris. Naughty everyone.

By the way, countries like Norway who are outside the EU but who have negotiated trade deals with the EU have had to agree to the free movement of people, employment regulations etc, like all other members. That's how it is.

Lord Biro wrote:

By the way, countries like Norway who are outside the EU but who have negotiated trade deals with the EU have had to agree to the free movement of people, employment regulations etc, like all other members. That's how it is.

Really?

Doesn't western Europe get half its gas from Russia. Are Russians allowed free movement and permission to work etc?

Hugh Watt wrote:

Laughable.

You lot chucked a bundle of money at the election and ended up with 1 MP less that you started, now your major donors have deserted you and thats a success. Deluded!!

Why is it that just about everything you ever post is utter rubbish?

UKIP spent massively less money than the LimpDims let alone the LabCons, where do you get this "bundle of money" crap? There will be plenty of anti EU money available for the 2019 euro campaign, unless we have Brexit when all bets are off.

Increasing your vote from 1 to 4 million isn't so much "success" as a fooking miracle, do you not get that?

Bojo does have a certain visceral appeal but his inability to grasp policy detail will be a huge liability in a General campaign, his success in London will not translate into the rest of the country.

But as I said, you are always wrong so why break the habit of a life time?

Lord Biro wrote:

By the way, countries like Norway who are outside the EU but who have negotiated trade deals with the EU have had to agree to the free movement of people, employment regulations etc, like all other members. That's how it is.

Sorry Biccy, which "other countries like Norway" have done such deals?

Or did you go to the university of making sh1t up with Huge Tw@?

Norway sucks EU crap because they have a huge trade surplus with them, we have a huge deficit, our situation is completely different.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

By the way, countries like Norway who are outside the EU but who have negotiated trade deals with the EU have had to agree to the free movement of people, employment regulations etc, like all other members. That's how it is.

Sorry Biccy, which "other countries like Norway" have done such deals?

Or did you go to the university of making sh1t up with Huge Tw@?

Norway sucks EU crap because they have a huge trade surplus with them, we have a huge deficit, our situation is completely different.

How about Switzerland?

Indeed Pete. And countries that export into the EU still have to adhere to product regulation/welfare issues. Many of those regulations are not "red tape", they are there to represent a civilised society with some pretence of citizen welfare and ethics.

In the very unlikely event  England were to alienate the EU and the rest of the UK, then anyone who thinks European former partners are going to thank England for such wonderful timing are badly mistaken. There are old emnities underneath on both sides just waiting to explode. They are not going to relax their core worker movement beliefs with major trade partners just for lil' ol England. Ain't going to happen. The logic of protectionism often wins out, as it did in the 1930s after the earlier crash.

I am not undecided which way to vote, more whether there is any point in voting at all on which corrupted capitalist jailer holds the keys. The EU jailer is at present slightly more interested in protecting worker rights than the UK, but there again, other dangerous political leanings could soon change with the stirrings in Germany, Hungary and the central European old empirical lands. The Turkey/migration issue is driving big unpredictable political forces.
Time for a cup of tea before I get onto a roof in yet another severe gale. Good job I'm rufty tufty.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

Laughable.

You lot chucked a bundle of money at the election and ended up with 1 MP less that you started, now your major donors have deserted you and thats a success. Deluded!!

Why is it that just about everything you ever post is utter rubbish?

UKIP spent massively less money than the LimpDims let alone the LabCons, where do you get this "bundle of money" crap? There will be plenty of anti EU money available for the 2019  euro campaign, unless we have Brexit when all bets are off.

Increasing your vote from 1 to 4 million isn't so much "success" as a fooking miracle, do you not get that?

Bojo does have a certain visceral appeal but his inability to grasp policy detail will be a huge liability in a General campaign, his success in London will not translate into the rest of the country.

But as I said, you are always wrong so why break the habit of a life time?

My word you are deluded. For all the money thrown at the 2015 election you ended up with 1 "reckless" turncoat tory less than you did before the vote. Farage finally stop chickening out of standing for election and once again failed. A failed stockbroker, a failed Tory party activist and a now a marginal laughing stock presiding over a party of "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists"

Which I think sums you up quite nicely.

Lord Biro wrote:

I still haven't heard one coherent answer from the exiteers to the current migrant crisis. Not one.
Come on Exiteers, what's your great answer, your great policy that is going to solve the spreading crisis. Keep yer head, build a wall, and hope it all blows over ? How is that going to work in the real world ?
Genuinely interested. I haven't heard an answer anywhere yet.
The exiteers go on and on about the fear campaign of Cameron/the capitalist bank of england etc, but surely their tales of doom regarding the migrant hordes sinking these islands is no more than the same sort of fear campaign.
I saw Boris was caught with his hypocritical trousers down today. Naughty Boris. Naughty everyone.

By the way, countries like Norway who are outside the EU but who have negotiated trade deals with the EU have had to agree to the free movement of people, employment regulations etc, like all other members. That's how it is.

And what's your solution to the migration problem then Biro? Let them all come? Feckin la la land. Houses, hospitals, schools are all over run.
Anyway for the last time migration isn't the be all and end all of Europe for me, never has been. Get out of Europe the migration problem will still be there it's not going away but I'm sure as a start you and Franny could house at least a family each? You could get them working on your allotment in return for a roof over their heads and the benefit of your wisdom.

pepsipete wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

By the way, countries like Norway who are outside the EU but who have negotiated trade deals with the EU have had to agree to the free movement of people, employment regulations etc, like all other members. That's how it is.

Sorry Biccy, which "other countries like Norway" have done such deals?

Or did you go to the university of making sh1t up with Huge Tw@?

Norway sucks EU crap because they have a huge trade surplus with them, we have a huge deficit, our situation is completely different.

How about Switzerland?

Just had a referendum to junk free movement.

"countries" kind of implied there might be quite a few of them.

Lord Biro wrote:

Indeed Pete. And countries that export into the EU still have to adhere to product regulation/welfare issues.

So what you were actually saying was that there are 2 countries which accept free movement, one of which has had a referendum on the issue and are currently having to negotiate it away.

You like regulations do you?

EU regs are a nightmare which achieve nothing except to add to costs and reduce trade, 600 billion euros a year if the EU otself is to be believed.

I would love to know what these huge benefits of membership are, not just fluffy statements mimicing what you have seen some pollyticians with agendas spout on the tele, actual things, which benefit actual people, that we wouldn't or couldn't have without being in the EU. Just a couple would be good.

Hugh Watt wrote:

My word you are deluded. For all the money thrown at the 2015 election.

How much Huge?

Come on, tell the people exactly how much the Kip spent then compare it to what all the other parties spent?

Patience guys, Huge Tw@ doesn't have a fooking clue what the answers are and once he has looked it up he will not want to post the answers because it will make him look the clueless tw@ he actually is.

ps. I don't support UKIP, I have never voted UKIP, I stood for them in a local election just to see what that was all about, it was a nightmare. They only thing they have right is that Brexit would be the right thing for the UK. oh, and I love Nigey who has, despite what Huge the Tw@ posts, has never been a stock broker.

Amsterdamage wrote:

And what's your solution to the migration problem then Biro? Let them all come? Feckin la la land. Houses, hospitals, schools are all over run.

Anyway for the last time migration isn't the be all and end all of Europe for me, never has been.

You're not wrong, but I am beginning to think it may well be the be all and end all of the referendum.

£5 billion already promised to the Fascist, Islamic fundamentalist, daesh supporting, Kurd murdering regime in Turkey, £500 million of it coming from the UK via a back door deal done by Merkel.

Merkel created the huge surge in migration, now she doesn't know what to do about it other than to suck Erdogan's d1ck. The deal involves us taking one Syrian for every miscellaneous Rag we send bag, hello, Merky, EU law doesn't allow us to send illegal migrants anywhere, once they are in they are in for good and pretty soon they will, under EU law, be able to bring the rag tag and bob tail wives and scrawny kids that they spawned back in the sand box. A million today is 10 million in the next ten years by the time they get their progeny in and they get breeding, with respected security sources suggesting as many as 5,000 committed Jihadis have already sneaked in with the swarm.

This I think may be the straw which breaks Cammy the Camel's EU loving back.