Plymouth Argyle v Carlisle United FA CUP THREAD

Tipping the 6,000 mark on an all-pay day - probably slightly exceeding most peoples estimates to be fair. It's a shame the FA Cup doesn't have that magic any more to attract the masses, even at £15.

As far as the game goes, we were flat as a pancake on the pitch and in the stands. It was quite surreal actually. As soon as the 2nd goal went in there was a unanimous opinion from everyone in our immediate vicinity that unless we could score 3, we weren't in the slightest bit bothered about scoring one. This feeling intensified the longer the game went on.

In all honesty, disappointing performance and not happy to lose. But in the grand scheme of things probably not the biggest blow to our season.

Terrible performance from Argyle who couldn't have made it more clearer that they didn't care about this match or the money a potential FA cup run could have brought in if they tried. Del bhey had nothing up his sleeve to try and change our fortunes and looking at the bench i dont think i could have either bar an unfit Wylde. Serious lack of depth is coming back strong again. Very disappointed by Argyle today.

I dread to think how bad we are going to be on tuesday night.

steveinspain wrote:

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

Small squad with zero help expected from the non investor, the fantastic Adams has his work cut out keeping it all together.

Plymouth Argyle FC ‏@Only1Argyle  · 4 mins ago  
DA: Carlisle scorer Hallam Hope was a target for me, but we couldn't afford him

Looks like DA's getting pissed off already, he'll be gone soon

Thanks for that Steve.
I do like Adams' candid views, along with several other things, just like a normal person, rather than an employer's automatom.  
I suppose the employer's response to that, when push comes to shove, is.......... "we have debts to pay, thank heaven we have a club to support"

I didn't expect that today at all, but on a rather selfish more positive note, I like to be positive, any further FA Cup escapades, in the absence of transpararency, would have seen 50% of all such unbudgeted income going to paying down Brent's acquired debt over and above the admin procedure, and hence a bit of a profit for the man in the long term. So, it's not all bad news for us fans that want to see the back of him and his ways.

Thinking about it seriously, is anyone really bothered that we're out of the cup?

I'm not. We're still 5 points clear at the top of the league.

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

Thinking about it seriously, is anyone really bothered that we're out of the cup?

I'm not. We're still 5 points clear at the top of the league.

A rather arrogant attitude tends to come back and bite you very hard.

And so can a humble one.
5 points clear is 5 points clear. Nine tenths of the law I'm told. In a humble sort of way.

Yeah I'm bothered, I'll miss the excitment of the draw, the chance of a biggie in the third round, and Wembley in May.

You'll get over it, Les. You always do

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

Thinking about it seriously, is anyone really bothered that we're out of the cup?

I'm not. We're still 5 points clear at the top of the league.

If the choice was ''Win the FA Cup and finish 8th in the league'' or ''lose today and finish in top 3'' I would be surprised if any Argyle fan would want the 1st option.

really do have some thickos supporting this club havent we lol

tigertony wrote:

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

Thinking about it seriously, is anyone really bothered that we're out of the cup?

I'm not. We're still 5 points clear at the top of the league.

If the choice was ''Win the FA Cup and finish 8th in the league'' or ''lose today and finish in top 3'' I would be surprised if any Argyle fan would want the 1st option.

Tone, have yoom been drinking? Fa cup all day long for this plastic!

I'm gutted about going out of the cup and the way we played, worse performance since Stevenage early last season, maybe even longer.

I got criticised last week when I started my post-match pieces again for them being too full of hyperbole. Well, given what I'm about to type, it wouldn't shock me if that criticism emerges again. I don't necessarily see it as hyperbole however. I just think that since my match reports have come back, we've happened to see both the best and the worst (narrowly edging out Oxford) two performances of the season on alternate Saturdays.

There's no two ways about it- that was complete and utter dross. We're only lucky really that it came in a cup game rather than the league but even that was scant relief. I want us doing well in ALL competitions not just the one and I sincerely hope that the reaction to that shambles will be on display for everyone to see tomorrow evening against Millwall. Carlisle were better than us in almost every department but we'll narrow it down to three mainly.

For one, their energy and desire seemed to outweigh ours by untold amounts. And no, I'm not saying by that that our players actively withdrew effort. But, you CAN tell when a team is really up for it and we (especially in the first half) simply were not. We didn't win the first balls or the second balls. There was no urgency of movement either on or off the ball. It didn't have to be tactically intelligent even- we just did not look alive. Carlisle on the other hand seemed incredibly keen, getting stuck into every challenge and demonstrating movement off the ball at every possible chance.

Secondly, we lacked ideas and they seemed to have a well planned and accurately executed tactical gameplan. Whenever we had the ball at our feet, we had absolutely no idea how to carve open their defence. The good attacking play that we've seen for large spells of this season looked a thousand miles away from this grim November afternoon at Home Park. The clever passing, the anticipation and the shape were all lacking. It was a bit like watching a Fletcher team play, in this respect. Carlisle on the other hand knew exactly how to play against us and exactly how to counter our weaknesses. They had clearly done their homework not only on all of our set piece routines but on our defensive frailties too. Mainly the space in between Sawyer and Hartley because neither of them (especially Sawyer) are blessed with any great piece. They happily just sat back and soaked up our tepid attacking play before bursting forward on the counter whenever they could, resulting in two goals.

Thirdly, they played the pitch much better than we did. Whilst I think I'm a fairly intelligent observer of the game from the stands, I'm by no means a technical coaching expert having not played the game at any meaningful level myself. However, what I do know is this. You play differently when you're on a bad pitch to when you're on a good one. The pitch on Saturday was stodgy, sticky and the ball didn't play well on it. You're meant to control and pass the ball differently as well as posture and move yourself differently to adapt to it. The deft daisycutters and the jinky runs don't always work so well when the pitch is so sluggish you might as well be going through treacle. In fairness, Carlisle adapted to this and that's to their credit. Their passing and their movement were both much more suited to a pitch of this nature. We tried to play our usual game on a very unusual pitch and we need to get out of that habit fast otherwise it'll be a long old winter.

The first half was just an utter shambles. We offered nothing of any note, the only chance being a daisycutter from Simpson that deflected into the keepers arms and without the deflection would have been even easier to save. Carlisle scored two goals from very poor defending in the first case and questionable defending in the second. The first goal was really quite shambolic. You can't let the ball bounce about that many times without clearing it. It wasn't as though it was a one off good delivery which found the right head. Those are excusable. We let it bounce around for too long when there were enough windows of opportunity for us to get something in the way of the thing. The second is more understandable, you're bound to concede some chances when you play a high line like we do. However, the point of us playing such energetic players as McHugh in a high line is that they bust a gut to get up and down the pitch. They got the cross in a bit too cheaply for my liking. I also think that Nelson's reactions on the goalline were a little sluggish. I'm not convinced he couldn't have hooked the ball away or at least slid it out for a corner. Anyway, Carlisle went in 2-0 up and it really could have been more if they'd gone at us a bit more because we weren't at the races at all.

The second half was a little better but it could hardly have been a lot worse. We did at least seem to come out with a bit more vim and vigour about us. We played with more energy, not like we were half-asleep still. However, if the first of the three main problem areas was fixed, the other two were not. We still played the pitch badly and a switch to a flexible 4-4-2 still did not improve our lack of ideas and ability to create openings. I remember two very tame chances from Carey and Tanner, that was really it. We didn't have anything in the way of a '5 minute spell' and Carlisle were very good value for their win.

Player by player:

McCormick:5. Quite a poor performance from him really and it's no surprise he was playing through a knock. I said before I heard mention of it that I thought he had played and moved quite gingerly. Didn't have a lot to do in terms of shots but his command of area was nowhere near its usual standard and his kicking was poor (perhaps affected by the pitch).

Mellor:5. I've seen people give him 2 out of 10s and I've seen people say he was our only good player. Neither shout I really agree with in all honesty. I thought he played a solid enough game on the whole, doing nothing badly wrong. There were greater culprits than him both at the back and going forward yet he still made some mistakes (being pulled out of position, poor end product) in both areas. A solid middle of the road 5. Yes, one of our better players but that says more about how poor the rest were.
Nelson:4. If the manager of the month curse has struck for Adams, the player of the month nomination curse has certainly struck for Nelse. It's a shame to give him such a low rating cause the start to his game was very good indeed. He was generally pretty solid in the first half being the main one stopping Carlisle counters and bailing out his teammates mistakes. However he ought to have done more for each of the goals and this seemed to effect his confidence going into the second half where he was nervous and error prone.
Hartley-5. His defending was actually pretty solid throughout and made a valiant fist at stopping the second from going in. His distribution...well, usually I'll defend it but in this game it truly was abysmal. All of the aforementioned problems with the pitch seemed to effect him more than most. Every ball was misaimed and a couple were lumped out of play entirely with nobody even remotely in his vicinity.
Sawyer-4. After what seemed like a huge improvement from him in the last two games, this represented a bit of a regression to earlier in the season where he displayed a few problems with his ability to play the modern full-back role in a Derek Adams side due to his lack of mobility. Poor getting up and down the line and questionable when he DID get there. However I'll judge him again in a game where the whole side around him isn't doing poorly.

McHugh-3. Stinker of a performance from a guy who's generally been one of the real finds this season since his midfield move. Every facet of his game was below par- from his inability to impose any kind of control into CM without committing endless fouls. His passing was poor (as was most peoples) and even his tracking back wasn't up to much. How he got sponsors MOTM is beyond me because I thought he was dire. Yes he's allowed a bad game after being so good for most of the season but it really wasn't up to much.
Simpson-6 MOTM. It's a very low rating to give to the man of the match but that says a lot about how bad the others were. He had a tidy first half although he was about the only one who did. He was the only pressing pressing and getting his foot into the ball when Carlisle players had it. He also demonstrated a good passing range and executed it better than most players, at least for the first half an hour. Unfortunately he was also anonymous for large spells after that, dipping in and out of the game. He can do better. Man of the match by default.

Tanner-6. The best of a bad front four. Like Simpson, he dipped in and out of the game. When he was in the game however, he was brighter than most. He would at least look for a sharp pass into space. Nothing on the usual combination of dribbling and tricky movement that he's shown in the past few games but a smart pass and move is at least back to basics when nothing else is going right. Nobody else even came close to doing that. Low 6.
Carey-5. By far and away, his worst game in an Argyle shirt. His first touch, general distribution and movement were all poor. Not just Carey poor but poor poor. A few good passes redeem him from a lower mark.
Jervis-2. People will question the low rating but what did he honestly do to deserve higher than a 2? He was in the game even less than the other midfielders, demonstrating literally nothing in the way of off the ball movement or anticipation. On the rare occasions he got the ball, he wasted it on almost every occasion I can think of. Needs to really up his game a bit as I fear complacency may be sneaking in. Very poor performance.

Brunt-4. Yes, he tried and he moved but he always does. Too often his poor touch lets him down and Saturday was one of those days. I can barely remember a single ball sticking to him or him winning a single challenge for the entire duration. The only thing that earns him a 4 is that he did at least keep niggling away for the entire time he was on. But another in a long series of dire performances in this game.

Wylde-5. Showed energy but it would have been pretty hard for any substitute not to coming into such a tepid and low paced game as this. I think he demonstrated very little, again, in the way of end product. There's something there with him for sure but it's not enough and not consistent enough. I think we are, at our best, a better team in his absence.
Threlkeld-4. Last week I thought he was headless but good. This week he was still headless but wasn't even good with it. Seemed to do nothing except give away fouls and go careering out of position leaving space wide open behind him. A decent player is in there somewhere but we don't see him often enough.
Harvey-3. Having the ball hoofed up to him clearly isn't his game and it's clear to see the agendas at play from those gleefully seeking to write him off based on this. However, you can only judge him on the game he was brought on to play and there's no denying he played poorly. Didn't win a single challenge he went for and indeed didn't even touch the ball. The only reason he gets a 3 is because he did at least try to position himself on the right side of the defender to pick up loose balls.

Must do better. Must do a lot better. But thankfully, we can. I won't lose faith in Adams or his vision due to one poor performance. We can only assess this game on its merits however. And it was very poor.

I can remember the days , 60's/70's, when Argyle used to occupy my mind frequently. Fortunately, tinternet didn't exist.

Angry wrote:

really do have some thickos supporting this club havent we lol

We certainly have

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

Angry wrote:

really do have some thickos supporting this club havent we lol

We certainly have  

Qualification to be a supporter

pepsipete wrote:

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

Angry wrote:

really do have some thickos supporting this club havent we lol

We certainly have  

Qualification to be a supporter

It certainly helps