Nelson Mandela has died

South Africa's first black president and anti-apartheid icon Nelson Mandela has died

South Africa's first black president and anti-apartheid icon Nelson Mandela has died, South Africa's president says.

Mr Mandela, 95, led South Africa's transition from white-minority rule in the 1990s, after 27 years in prison.

He had been receiving intense home-based medical care for a lung infection after three months in hospital.

In a statement on South African national TV, Mr Zuma said Mr Mandela had "departed" and was at peace.

He lived until he was 95, changed the lives of millions of his people and was an inspiration for millions and millions all over the World. I hope the news celebrate his life rather than dwell on the cliched sadness aspect.

One of humanity's greats.

He was a true hero without a doubt.

The bloke sat behind hairy on saturday will be distraught.

I shan't lower myself in posting anything along the lines as was posted when Mrs Thatcher died,
suffice to say he was no saint.

PatDunne wrote:

I shan't lower myself in posting anything along the lines as was posted when Mrs Thatcher died,
suffice to say he was no saint.

Yep. The guy sure was uppity.

What a stupid post.

Thatcher might have changed the lives of millions - Mandela was an icon for billions. He's probably the most important, iconic individual person to have died in my lifetime. He was a hero. I doubt we'll ever see such an important political figure for another 500 years.

Yup, can't think of a bigger global figure. Does the Dalai Lama come close?

hairy j wrote:

He lived until he was 95, changed the lives of millions of his people and was an inspiration for millions and millions all over the World. I hope the news celebrate his life rather than dwell on the cliched sadness aspect.

Yes! I can't be bothered with the site of Cameron etc looking somber like its a set peice that exists for him to look serious and like a statesman. Instead it should be celebrated now he is at peace and for what he did. 27 years in prison FFS!

Mock Cuncher wrote:

Yup, can't think of a bigger global figure. Does the Dalai Lama come close?

I don't think so. How easy would it have been for Mandella to renounce everything and give up or resort to violence. Ghandhi is probably the last iconic figure to die before Mandella who was as important.

hairy j wrote:

How easy would it have been for Mandella to renounce everything and give up or resort to violence. Ghandhi is probably the last iconic figure to die before Mandella who was as important.

Remember watching Panorama/Dispatches or something similar many years ago where they claimed he did indeed resort to violence as a younger man.

Resentment is like drinking poison and then hoping it will kill your enemies

We had this discussion on here once before. Absolute fact that Mandella was considered a terrorist by many at the outset and our own Government was one of them. He killed for his cause and was by no means the pacifist he became in the end when he started out. The difference between him a a number of other terrorists is that people came to think his cause was just and worthwhile and therefore the actions he took were ok and acceptable. He most certainly wasn't the statesman he became at the start that's for sure. One indisputable fact is that he will go down in history as a great man who changed a lot of people's opinions.

hairy j wrote:

I don't think so. How easy would it have been for Mandella to renounce everything and give up or resort to violence.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

We had this discussion on here once before. Absolute fact that Mandella was considered a terrorist by many at the outset and our own Government was one of them. He killed for his cause and was by no means the pacifist he became in the end when he started out. The difference between him a a number of other terrorists is that people came to think his cause was just and worthwhile and therefore the actions he took were ok and acceptable. He most certainly wasn't the statesman he became at the start that's for sure. One indisputable fact is that he will go down in history as a great man who changed a lot of people's opinions.

Hairy didn't learn anything did he?

Clueless.

I hope the Mods move your post Mr Rickler. It doesn't belong on this thread.

Diddums.

I was merely pointing out Hairy doesn't know his history.

You shouldn't confuse  the displaying of two contrasting viewpoints within the same family as being the same as your vulgar 'Westboro" trolling on my Birthday thread last week.

"I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it".

The Thatcher/Mandela comparison sucks. One created division and the other unity; one sowed discord and the other created harmony; one supported Apartheid and the other defeated it. There is no valid comparison to be had.

What you think of his actions all depends whether you think the ANC's struggle was a Just War or not.

Was there any other alternative? No, peaceful protests had been tried at met with a violent response from the state.

Was it for a just cause? Yes, undoubtedly.

Did they use disproportionate force? No. They were being attacked by the South African state long before they resorted to those tactics. They were the victims first which is something that isn't stated often enough.

Did innocents die? Yes of course they did but the ANC were the good guys in this. They were defending themselves and a just cause and their actions were the ONLY way to win the war against apartheid. I'd like to see some of the critics think up a better way because they'd all been worn out.

It's like World War Two. Did innocents die as a result of British offensives? Well yeah no shit- but it was the ONLY possible way to win a war that had to be won and there was no alternative too. Ties in nicely with the video to those songs really. Do you think our troops never sung songs about going after the Germans or whatever? I wonder what the reaction would be if they had camera crews hawking them and copying every flippant word they ever said about the enemy?

RIP Nelson Mandela- a hero whose momentous work I can never fully understand being white and from Britain but he was certainly pretty amazing. He knew the value of both forgiveness of evil and the importance of standing up to oppression in every form in which it comes. A truly amazing man.

I think the whole point of Mandela is that he went from a chap who was a pretty violent type to basically an utter saint - when no-one would have blamed him for becoming 10x more extreme after 27 years rotting in prison.

Without him = South Africa would have become like Zimbabwe on crack.

With him = it is not now a perfect country fore shore, but mantras like 'forgiveness', 'unity' and 'harmony' emerged as key from the background of an uprising in one of the most oppressive states in the 20th century. That is the legacy people celebrate with Mandela and the reason he became iconic for billions.

Mock Cuncher wrote:

I think the whole point of Mandela is that he went from a chap who was a pretty violent type to basically an utter saint - when no-one would have blamed him for becoming 10x more extreme after 27 years rotting in prison.

Without him = South Africa would have become like Zimbabwe on crack.

Yup...

Fur shaw... It says a lot for what a long stretch of 'rehabilitation' will do...

Rickler wrote:

Diddums.

I was merely pointing out Hairy doesn't know his history.

You shouldn't confuse  the displaying of two contrasting viewpoints within the same family as being the same as your vulgar 'Westboro" trolling on my Birthday thread last week.

He did commit acts of violence prior to being sent to prison however, when he became truly influential, post release, he led a peaceful campaign to end apartheid. It would have been an easy option to resent the white race and to begin a violent coup. Mandela therefore didn't resort to violence. That's why I compared him to Gandhi.
It would be nice if you could read a thread rather than look on the left hand side of the screen at the names of posters.