Football League Show

Only just seen this and the Barnet game.

Absolutely zero mention by Brent that the budget that should have seen the club operating at least in the top half of the table, was wasted by Fletcher, for whom Brent and his advisors had great admiration and kept him on for far too long, when it was obvious to others that he was clueless.
As for the problem getting players to HP, Holloway seemed to do ok
I thought Andy nailed it with his lack of effective leadership and openness comments, promised by the owner and his cohorts.

It is clear that Brent and his inner circle are not willing to listen or be truly open with the supporters. It is a sham. All they want is people to create wealth for the club and owner, without having a say in how it is spent.

When holloway left. Argyle were 4th in championship. As you rightly point out tring he clearly had the players.

If Stapleton had a bit of bottle and backed him further I'm sure he would have taken that team to the premiership. And argyle would have never had to worry about money again.


As with most things. You get what you pay for. Players had no worries about joining the club when it was showing a bit of ambition rising up through the leagues. Brent is putting nothing in. So jould expect nothing back.

Dane. wrote:

When holloway left. Argyle were 4th in championship. As you rightly point out tring he clearly had the players.

If Stapleton had a bit of bottle and backed him further I'm sure he would have taken that team to the premiership. And argyle would have never had to worry about money again.


As with most things. You get what you pay for. Players had no worries about joining the club when it was showing a bit of ambition rising up through the leagues. Brent is putting nothing in. So jould expect nothing back.

Absolutely............ and before anyone says it's easier to attract players to a Championship club, Sturrock managed to attract horses for courses in the lower leagues. I think it's more down to the manager, his passion, contacts and of course, appropriate investment.
The one thing I was pleased about from the programme was the recognition that in the lower leagues Argyle are a big club with real potential. Had the 16k+ who turned up in the first Championship season been rewarded by some moderate cash backed ambition, the potential fanbase would have responded. Neither Pulis or Holloway would have wasted money.
You have to speculate to accumulate, particularly for a city club with no top flight history and as a result no belief in the club. We could emulate Norwich and Southampton's fanbases had we their history.
It's never too late but it looks a long way off right now.

Our City friends will pillory this comment but I firmly believe it to be accurate.

Swansea isnt exactly in the epicentre of the football world in this country.... but what have they done?? ....... Answer : shown ambition! therefore they dont have a problem getting players or Micheal laudrup as there manager!

If brent wants to win the hearts and imagination of the fans, he has to think big and show some ambition. people have had enough of this small time attitude and lack of ambition! and before people bang on about admin etc if you look to spend, there is nothing wrong with debt if its manageable.

Do it properly or get lost !!!

Brent was quite content to sit back and allow Fletcher to sign part time firemen and Eddie Howe rejects despite his assertion that we "have one of the most competetive budgets in the league" - tosser!

Dane please don't use that taboo 'a' word on here you know the one that denotes a desire for success.

Slap on wrist dane!

Much has been said about this pot of gold that was supposed to have been given to Fletcher, how much was it again?

Gob looking at the players he brought in I would say it was a handful of change, about £5.40

Dane. wrote:

When holloway left. Argyle were 4th in championship. As you rightly point out tring he clearly had the players.

If Stapleton had a bit of bottle and backed him further I'm sure he would have taken that team to the premiership. And argyle would have never had to worry about money again.


As with most things. You get what you pay for. Players had no worries about joining the club when it was showing a bit of ambition rising up through the leagues. Brent is putting nothing in. So jould expect nothing back.

Well said that man.

We were all pissed off when Holloway left. He was absolutely correct though as he showed by getting Blackpool up to the Prem on basically a pittance. Nice one Stapleton.....

Happy Daze wrote:

Gob looking at the players he brought in I would say it was a handful of change, about £5.40

Exactly!

GOB wrote:

Much has been said about this pot of gold that was supposed to have been given to Fletcher, how much was it again?

I think the point that has been made was that even allowing for debt repayments the budget Fletcher was given would put us into the top third/quarter of teams in the league - somewhere just outside the play offs. Whilst that is not exactly a pot of gold, used wisely we should never be in the position we are.

League table do tend to follow financial budgets broadly and that is why the exceptions are so worthy of mention:

West Brom
Everton (consistently)
Swansea
Yeovil
Burton Albion

and on the negative side:

QPR
Wolves
Plymouth Argyle

Tringreen wrote:

Had the 16k+ who turned up in the first Championship season been rewarded by some moderate cash backed ambition, the potential fanbase would have responded.

My old Gran used to say "if the dog hadn't stopped he would have caught the rabbit", at least she had the excuse of senility.

I thought you boys were starting to get the idea but you soon slipped, you hit your glass ceiling, the novelty wore off, the plastics went back to supporting Man utd, expect the fat feck in your boardroom, then you reverted to type and are back at what is now your natural level. Forget the delusional flights of fancy and deal with reality before getting back into the Football league becomes your new glass ceiling.

Dane. wrote:

Do it properly or get lost !!!

Oh deary me !

He is doing it right, you went bust owing over £17 million, I think you might be confusing ambition with administration, bit of a "market", "meerkat" kind of thing.

Brent needs to get his hand in his pocket and not just to scratch his nuts --- Simples

Pokesdown wrote:

League table do tend to follow financial budgets broadly and that is why the exceptions are so worthy of mention:

West Brom
Everton (consistently)
Swansea
Yeovil
Burton Albion

Not sure where you got your figures but Everton's turnover is 7th or 8th in the Prem and the Swan's and West Brom's are not appreciably below the mean plus they both have the advantage of relatively low levels of debt. Surprisingly, despite their cack crowds, Burton have a thriving commercial side which allows them to sign players you lot can only dream about.

Serious question LT, you could well bounce straight back up this season, via the play-offs would be ideal for you so you make a few quid en route, so if you could write your own scenario for the next five years what would it be?

You wouldn't have the spending power or the attendance to challenge for promotion again under your current ownership so would you be happy with 5 years organic growth in league 1 or would you want an owner to emerge with deep pockets who could get you into the CCC for the first time ever? Risk it all for a shot at the the dream?

In order to achieve the second promotion you would have to spend, spend spend and relocate to a £20,000 new stadium on the outskirts of the city or ground share with the Chiefs meaning the club took on debts under an owner who promises outside investment for a push for the premier league once you make it to the CCC.

So you lose Sid James Park and your Trust led model but you have your only chance of seeing your club in the big-time.

If any of the scenarios I've mentioned couldn't happen for whatever reason just go with my story for the sake of it. A big gamble under an owner in it for profit or years more of a year or two in league 1 with the majority in this league?

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Dane. wrote:

Do it properly or get lost !!!

Oh deary me !

He is doing it right, you went bust owing over £17 million, I think you might be confusing ambition with administration, bit of a "market", "meerkat" kind of thing.

You can spend money and show ambition without putting the club at risk you know!!!!!

Greenjock wrote:

So you lose Sid James Park and your Trust led model but you have your only chance of seeing your club in the big-time.

I would never want to leave dear ol' Sid James nor have the Trust sell out and 32,000 City fans at the first competitive match at the new Wemberlee was enough big time for two life times.

Should we go up then I would want it to be for through the play offs, not for the money but for the occasions, Oxford, Turks and the two Wembley visits did much to assuage the pain of a Tuesday night at Northwich Victoria.

Once up my dream scenario would be for Tisdale to fook off and take his boring playing style and foppish clothes with him as well as releasing us from the ridiculous contract that Tagg and Perriwinkle lumbered us with.

After that I will take what comes, a new young manager that believes in playing attacking football with a majority of young local players, a clear out of the Board to get some action on redeveloping SJP and increasing commercial income and change of direction in the Trust where they stop being poodles for the inept Board and started doing what they were supposed to do, raise money and kick Boardroom arse, would be good but I wouldn't be holding out much hope.

I don't believe there is a rabid City supporter our there with a wad that would choke a donkey and a streak of magnanimous philanthropy a mile wide so that ain't an issue, I also don't believe that you need to be that big a club to both get into the Championship or stay there, you just need to do the right things in the right way with a major league portion of good luck.

I don't see anything beyond a short term scrappy insurgency just above the glass ceiling and a few cup runs and that would be more than enough, a bit of excitement and the sure and certain knowledge that following August a team in red and White will be lining up at SJP whether in the Championship or Conference South is enough for this old guy, over ambition is far worse than no ambition at all in my book.

Dane. wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Dane. wrote:

Do it properly or get lost !!!

Oh deary me !

He is doing it right, you went bust owing over £17 million, I think you might be confusing ambition with administration, bit of a "market", "meerkat" kind of thing.

You can spend money and show ambition without putting the club at risk you know!!!!!

We never found out where that £17 million had been spent. The club was registering a profit in the early years in the Championship, and we certainly sold enough of Holloword's players to recoup any wages overspend by Hollowords. The debt only seemed to become unsustainable after Sturrock took over. Part of it was to fund his terrible signings on high wages, and the subsequent loaning in of other players on high salaries once Sturrock fell out with his new signings (usually after about a month). God what a disasterous reign Sturrock Mark 2 had!

However even given for the overspending of Sturrock and Mariner, a substantial portion of the £17 Million debt must have come from somewhere else. I remember there being several million registered as 'additional expenses' or some such vague phrase when the accounts were released. The impression I got was that the M7 pissed large quantities of money away of designing our 'new stadium', and all the associated bull that went along with it. I notice that Liverpool managed to somehow spend £35 million on their 'New Anfield', despite not actually building anything. Somewhere a lot of non-football people (Lawyers, Architects, Marketing people) got rich off Argyle while the M7 messed around with ludicrous World Cup plans.

I don't recall the Administrator's report shedding much light on this, but I guess they were just there to pick up their vast pay cheques too!

Dane. wrote:

You can spend money and show ambition without putting the club at risk you know!!!!!

Not when you are still paying off the debts accrued during your last bit of ambition showing you can't.

You seem to have spent far too much time listening to fook'tards like El Porko, Brent has spent the club's money and shown all the ambition he could, fortunately he backed Fletch who seems to have had little or no clue, that is all the ambition your piss poor little club can afford, even that has skint you out, stop thinking Brent is going to spunk his wad on your dead donkey of a club, he ain't, any success you get in the future will have to be earned not stolen, get over it.

Flat_Track_Bully wrote:

We never found out where that £17 million had been spent.

And you never will Bulls, you had an infestation of suits, they are like locusts they never leave owt worth haviing when they move on.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Dane. wrote:

You can spend money and show ambition without putting the club at risk you know!!!!!

Not when you are still paying off the debts accrued during your last bit of ambition showing you can't.

You seem to have spent far too much time listening to fook'tards like El Porko, Brent has spent the club's money and shown all the ambition he could, fortunately he backed Fletch who seems to have had little or no clue, that is all the ambition your piss poor little club can afford, even that has skint you out, stop thinking Brent is going to spunk his wad on your dead donkey of a club, he ain't, any success you get in the future will have to be earned not stolen, get over it.

You keep saying he has backed fletcher ? where ? What money did fletcher spend ?

we all know brent has short arms and very long pockets

Refreshing to hear somebody happy with their lot, or would be following a playoff victory and a change of management. Not sure your dream of a team of local players would ever come to fruition unless the money mad premier league imploded.

I've long held the opinion that for the likes of us runt clubs a better existence might be two leagues, north and south, with players having to be born within a certain distance of the club. So no promotion or relegation, or maybe relegation but no promotion, and teams full of locally born players.

No 500 mile round trips for fans every few weeks and a playoff system where the top 4 or 8 from both leagues compete for the cup. The league's still have a separate winner each.

You could even have some kind of British cup for the league winners, the top two Welsh, Scottish and Irish clubs.

You can leave the big boys to a couple of 18 teams leagues that are nothing to do with this format, or have the overall playoff winners replace the bottom club in the second elite league if you wanted.

The money saved on travel for the smallest of clubs would help immensely and I'm sure somebody would televise some games, not sky preferably, and a really stringent wage cap where clubs accounts could be scrutinised to ensure nobody breaks the rules. Anybody who does gets such a big penalty it isn't worth the risk.

Attacking play could be rewarded as well, like rugby a bonus point system for more goals.

Sounds good to me but you would have clubs like Sheffield United not wanting to miss out on the trough on offer in the elite two leagues but tough shit. Have a start date and whoever is relegated the season before is made to put up with it or feck off. Have the format clearly set out 3 years in advance so they have nobody to blame but themselves.

The premier league is great but it's basically franchises. You're lucky to get an English player nevermind a local lad these days, same with owners.

Also have a transfer policy that stings the big clubs if they want to rape and pillage the smaller clubs and then leave the player in the reserves. Only buy players who are going to get regular games and make it cost them an arm and a leg. A percentage of the transfer fee having to go on making stadiums better and with designated standing areas. A percentage of the transfer fee also has to go on grass roots development in their local catchment area.

That's all off the top of my head so I'm sure it wouldn't work for plenty of reasons but it's my template.