Russian airbus goes down

Horrible news coming out of a big Russian passenger airbus going down over Egypt. There's going to be repercussions from this, and I hope this doesn't turn out to be a further escalation. Connections are bound to be made to the new Russian bombing actions going on in the Middle East, and the previous European airliner being shot down by Russian backed terrorists. Worrying times.

News is still sketchy at the moment as to probable cause

You are not safe anywhere im afraid

Reports here in Asia of ISIS involvement but from what I read their most advanced weapon is still the AK-47 although you can't rule out Moscows involvement, even for one of their own. The Worlds top aviation site are claiming though that the 1st Officer only last week had been complaining about the decrepit state of repair of that Airbus 321

Isis unlikely but slick pc work will make it look like them

harvetheslayer wrote:

The Worlds top aviation site are claiming though that the 1st Officer only last week had been complaining about the decrepit state of repair of that Airbus 321

The air industry are frightened to distraction that terrorism/war will cut their trade, let alone the and cause .
I remember when the cause of an air accident in the 70s took months and months to be published. Now, post 911, they chuck out the probable cause within 24 hours, despite no black box etc, usually the fault of the human pilot/train driver.
I still remember Bush Jr's very public words post 911........ "We, the government, will lie to you from now on, if necessary "

Sir John Hawkins wrote:

and the previous European airliner being shot down by Russian backed terrorists. Worrying times.

The most worrying thing is forking idiots who think they have a clue who shot down the Malaysian Air jet, particularly the kind of moron who would refer to Ukrainian freedom fighters trying to rid themselves of a US/EU imposed fascist regime as "Russian backed terrorists".

This latest downing was most probably a planted bomb, it will never be admitted of course because of how bad it would make the Egyptian and Russian security services look, another Lockerbie, a couple of hundred more innocent victims of US imperialism aided and abetted by Blair, Brown and to a lesser extent the Pig Porker. Al Qaeda and IS would not exist with anything like their current capabilities without our compliance, the Russians would have crushed them in Afghanistan and they would never have been in a position to challenge Saddam or Assad, or even Khaddafi, without the septics poking their oar in .

Authorities are also concerned about the bomb theory because Sharm el-Sheikh follows European Security standards. So if it was a bomb it was missed by someone/something.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

This latest downing was most probably a planted bomb, it will never be admitted of course because of how bad it would make the Egyptian and Russian security services look.

I tend to take the opposite view in that a bomb would be viewed as a fairly rare event. And the PR damage caused to the security services and the tourism industry would soon pass.

However the financial loss to the aviation industry if structural damage was the cause would be colossal.

The bomb theory is explainable, the structural failure may not be.

The Money Markets like certainty. Vested interests and big business will hope it was a bomb.

People are saying ''Commercial aircraft don't just fall apart''
People said the Titanic couldn't sink.
USA satellites picked up a ''heat source'' where the plane was flying before it crashed. Bomb, Huge engine malfunction, fire .... ??

Quote :

Vested interests and big business will hope it was a bomb.

There are many vested interests in this one. Perhaps this is being unfair but I'm not convinced the investigators (Russian and Egyptian) will be entirely independent and will be subject to enormous pressure from their respective governments. Airbus will be entitled to investigate as it was one of their aircraft so their report may be ultimately the most objective, although it is certainly not in their interests for it to reveal structural or manufacturing defects. It will, however, take the longest to complete because the wreckage will have to be reconstructed.

Until the reports are published everything is utter speculation at the moment.

I incline to the Occam's Razor view (for the time being) - it was an old(ish) aircraft, being operated by a small Russian regional airline with a doubtful maintenance regime. Statistically Russian aircraft have a major accident rate of one per year.

bjorn_yesterday wrote:

I incline to the Occam's Razor view (for the time being)

In which case a modern airliner, 18 years is not old, simply falling a part while in level flight in good weather has never happened before, hardly the obvious answer is it?

This aircraft landed in bits over a wide area with most of it burnt, had an engine caught fire, the other likely possibility, it would have come down in one piece and the descent would have been gradual, this was a bomb planted at Sharm which blew it apart and caused it to plummet to earth.

What a fooking horrible way to die as those not killed by the blast may well have been conscious much of the way down.

Obviously an onboard bomb. Russia just started upping the anti big time in Syria, with the Egyptian military systematically whacking their Muslim population, after their failed revolution. I wouldn't trust any Egyptian airline security in these troubled times. An easy mark I would guess, and a guess it is. It's all terribly sad for those holiday innocents. It's all escalating nicely.

As for the previous shooting down of the Malaysian airliner. Anyone who shoots down a passenger jet is a terrorist in my book. Some seem to have a differing view. But then the Brits did coin the term "commando" in the last world war for their own secret behind the lines purpose, so language is up for grabs for all of us.

Early morning flight out of Sharm probably meant the plane would have been on the ground overnight at the Airport. If security was lax, plenty of opportunity to load a device into the Cargo deck.

All flights in and out of Sharm from the UK suspended tonight. What's interesting though is that reports are saying these suspended flights are based on Intel received away from the crash site. Rogue workers at the Airport possibly been rumbled ?

It's a cold hard-nosed angle to look at things, but the Russians being on the receiving end of a major terrorist atrocity will serve to galvanize resolve from both East an West to eliminate the lunatic Islamic crazies.

Sir John Hawkins wrote:

Anyone who shoots down a passenger jet is a terrorist in my book.

So did the shooting down of Iran Air flight 655 make the whole US military terrorists or just the crew of the Vincennes?

US military are terrorists, with thousands of lives on their hands.

pepsipete wrote:

US military are terrorists,  with thousands of lives on their hands.

That's "in".

There's no good guys anymore. The doctrine of Pre emptive defence saw to that.

Czarcasm wrote:

Early morning flight out of Sharm probably meant the plane would have been on the ground overnight at the Airport. If security was lax, plenty of opportunity to load a device into the Cargo deck.

All flights in and out of Sharm from the UK suspended tonight. What's interesting though is that reports are saying these suspended flights are based on Intel received away from the crash site. Rogue workers at the Airport possibly been rumbled ?

It's a cold hard-nosed angle to look at things, but the Russians being on the receiving end of a major terrorist atrocity will serve to galvanize resolve from both East an West to eliminate the lunatic Islamic crazies.

I don't think the Russians need galvanising at all. They are all too aware of the threat posed by the Islamist nutjobs after the Breslan school and Moscow theatre atrocities. No doubt there's been many more smaller less publicised horrors too.

I reckon the Russians are as aware of the dangers as anybody ever has been - it is more or less surrounded by potential threats.

So after a week and gawd only knows how much money being spent on bleedin' experts they finally come to the conclusion anyone with a clue knew within an hour or so of it happening. Old Bill Ockham must be spinning in his grave.

The sudden break up of an aircraft with absolutely no warning, while in level flight, in good weather, simply doesn't happen unless there is a bomb involved, the wreckage spread over such a wide area was a bit of a clue too.

The lack of any functioning security at the airport is no surprise, it is pretty much the same in every other third world country.

The whining on about the poor old stranded Brits is starting to give me the hump now, these dozy feckers chose to holiday in a war zone despite the clear example of 30 odd Brits getting gunned down in Tunisia just a few months ago, another example of how stupid yer average punter is.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

The lack of any functioning security at the airport is no surprise, it is pretty much the same in every other third world country.
The whining on about the poor old stranded Brits is starting to give me the hump now, these dozy feckers chose to holiday in a war zone   despite the clear example of 30 odd Brits getting gunned down in Tunisia just a few months ago, another example of how stupid yer average punter is.

They do have European standards of security we are told! Yeah ... right!!

Should have sent the Bulwark or Ocean to fetch them then they could have enjoyed a 7 or 8 day cruise at taxpayers expense.

tigertony wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

The lack of any functioning security at the airport is no surprise, it is pretty much the same in every other third world country.
The whining on about the poor old stranded Brits is starting to give me the hump now, these dozy feckers chose to holiday in a war zone   despite the clear example of 30 odd Brits getting gunned down in Tunisia just a few months ago, another example of how stupid yer average punter is.

They do have European standards of security we are told! Yeah ... right!!

Should have sent the Bulwark or Ocean to fetch them then they could have enjoyed a 7 or 8 day cruise at taxpayers expense.

20k on either of them would be a bit of squeeze, be a sight easier for 2 Para to secure the airport and for us to borrow all them Lufthansa planes which are doing nothing while they are on strike to ferry the load of them back.

I had the misfortune to holiday in Sharm a few years back. To say the airport security back then was lapse (or prone to waver with the sniff of a £20 note rubbed under any officials nose) is a massive understatement. Mirrors under our bus to check for devices - and that was going into our hotel, FFS. Armed guards behind bullet proof barricades on street intersections, armoured vehicle patrols everywhere - sheesh. I was a nervous wreck before even checking in to our hotel

As an aside - whilst the hotels are very nice, step outside and into everyday Egypt and you're into a filthy, corrupt, stinking, rat infested shit-hole of mahoosive proportions. never again.

Person Of Interest wrote:

As an aside - whilst the hotels are very nice, step outside and into everyday Egypt and you're into a filthy, corrupt, stinking, rat infested shit-hole of mahoosive proportions. never again.

So, pretty much like home for you Gargs then?

Never could resist an open goal.

Bitch.