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 Mass Net Immigration.....Again.

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Sir Francis Drake

Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 5:01 pm

The Schroedinger's immigrant argument (they are either coming over here to "claim benefits" or "take our jobs" - mutually exclusive outcomes, of course) really does suggest the real issue isn't either one of either benefits or employment.

Since I make neither of those arguments I obviously have no idea what the real problem might be but I do know that until there is a logical consistency to the objection to immigration then it is all but impossible to reason about the topic.
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Sir Francis Drake

Sir Francis Drake

Posts : 7461
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Location : Nr Panama

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 5:05 pm

Les Miserable wrote:
Sir John Hawkins wrote:
Yes, well done the modern Germany, but then they are streets ahead of us little Ingerlanders in so many ways. The big worry of course, is the old right wing Nazi thing reappearing, taking over germany, and taking the old Austro/Hungarian eastern Europe with it. We'll be back to the 1930s before we know it. Then who knows, Russia might have an understanding with the Germanic block and history repeats itself. Hungary are today clearly showing their historic solidarity with Germany. It's all going back to the old borders, the old empirical divisions. It's all coming together nicely.

And, of course, mass wall to wall coverage here of the Hungarian train station involving a 1000 refugees, and yet 250,000 ! Peoples' assembly marched through London and demonstratedd at Mid Summer, and not a dicky bird from the bosses' press. They now are on orders not to report this sort of activity, almost treating peaceful demonstration as football violence in the censorship stakes.  

Anyhoooo, another example of bad "migration" that is causing this country problems. That Dyson guy, you know Mr England, and at first, what was to dislike about the quintessential quirky English boffin who kicked Hoover into touch. He got rid of the bags, but charged an absolute fortune for his machines, that aren't even near a Henry. And when push came to shove, and globalised corporate piracy became the rage, he upped sticks and migrated all his capital and jobs to China or wherever. Thanks a bunch, great.  Of course, no one from the right is moaning about how many jobs that little wheeze cost "us". And yet, when asked about why he left, he had the cheek to say he left because the English taxpayer wouldn't subsidise him anymore through local government giveaways of millions ! Do all these so called efficient industrialists need subsidising by the taxpayer ?. These Western global pirates need to be brought to order, it can't keep going on like it is. It's like the wild west with no planned economy. Looks like people are beginning to wake up to the great Capital swindle now, and over the pond as well with Berni Saunders about to turf out the Blairite Clinton.

I can see you are a polar opposite to myself Les, but that's life and at least it's a pleasure to talk politely and calmly about the issue rather than the foul mouthed nasty crap from a few I could mention.

Still,  that was a long one, and my last. Now I am a Knightly gentleman, I am moving tomorrow into my new estate that HRH kindly sequestrated for all my efforts on the high seas, and all the dosh I put into her (cough) (cough). Trouble is there's no proper broadband where I'm headed, so I'm back to ye olde mobile. Conversing on ATD on a mobile is frustrating to say the least. Spelling and grammar, quotes and mute points go out the window. I just couldn't compete. Very Happy  So perhaps I'll do the one word/one line thing from now on, you know, what moderators do.Very Happy  Sort of fits my new status.


Thanks/OK   Hope you have a smooth move and a speedy return to ATD.

Smart phones can be tethered (either by Buetooth or cable) to a PC/tablet/laptop etc and provide a pretty decent internet connection. If you're able to read this on a phone then you can probably do it just as long as your mobile supplier allows it - which they will, at a relatively low cost, if you ask them to do so.

I think mine charges £5 for 1Gb of data and that really is quite a lot of data (just as long as you don't watch loads of videoes all the time).
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Frank Bullitt

Frank Bullitt

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 5:15 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
The Schroedinger's immigrant argument (they are either coming over here to "claim benefits" or "take our jobs" - mutually exclusive outcomes, of course) really does suggest the real issue isn't either one of either benefits or employment.

Since I make neither of those arguments I obviously have no idea what the real problem might be but I do know that until there is a logical consistency to the objection to immigration then it is all but impossible to reason about the topic.

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hippo



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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 5:50 pm

What about the schroedingers that die in the box? Some, if they don't die pay tax via vat etc etc. However, this is a EU/ world problem, migration has always gone on, maybe for some countries it raises a question of population density and how that is coped with. I don't know, I ain't clever, just wondering.
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 5:51 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Smart phones can be tethered (either by Buetooth or cable) to a PC/tablet/laptop etc and provide a pretty decent internet connection. If you're able to read this on a phone then you can probably do it just as long as your mobile supplier allows it

As a proud POTD sort of guy who doesn't do contracts/season tickets unless there is no alternative, my phone bill, with internet, averages at about £4 a month PAYG, as most traffic is incoming. Skype is a wonderful thing.
My provider doesn't allow tethering, unless I treble what I pay, and give them what it cost me a month to buy my first house. So, that won't be happening. They don't even like "Phablets",and are resisting them.
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 7:41 pm

Foul mouthed nasty crap, not moi shorely?
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 7:47 pm

The PM not having it, this will go down well.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34130067
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VillageGreen

VillageGreen

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 8:09 pm

Dick Trickle wrote:
I politely suggest that it shouldn't secure its borders. These people are fleeing terror we would have no concept of. We should take our fair share. It is morally right to do so.


Seeing as the UK caused the problem in the first place partly due to the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts, it is right that the UK do something. Both the USA and the UK (with allies) should have remained in both countries for as long as it took to see stability and democracy thriving. We can argue the toss about the rights and wrongs for going in to the two countries in the first place, but at the end of the day, we failed and failed big time, spawning the likes daesh (along with its affiliated jihadi groups).

The bigger picture is daesh (along with its affiliated jihadi groups) and how to stop them. NATO and the West have got to sit down and figure that out, because if not, then daesh (along with its affiliated jihadi groups) will get stronger, more violent and we will see 1000s more migrants fleeing war zones and heading to Europe and the UK.

Daesh have recently been described as the biggest threat to world peace ever. They have the money, the weapons and are continuing to recruit from all over the world daily. Does the West just sit back, ring its hands and hope the problem will go away and be long forgotten in a year or two.

Sadly, there is no will in taking the fight to daesh (along with its affiliated jihadi groups) wherever they be (the Middle East, Asia and Africa) , well not yet anyway. In 2017, that attitude may change when the USA votes in a new President, who will probably be a Republican and he or she will see what daesh are really all about and take action with allies.

A fair few former British and American military personnel have said it is now the time to put boots on the ground in Iraq (again), Afghanistan (again), Syria, Libya, parts of Asia/Africa and declare all out war on daesh (along with its affiliated jihadi groups). If that means calling up every person aged 18-40 to go and fight, then so be it. The only way to defeat the likes of daesh (along with its affiliated jihadi groups) is to occupy the above mentioned places for as long as it takes, even if that is for two, three or more generations down the line. There is no other way.

If things remain as they are now for a very foreseeable future, the situation in Europe will get far worse than currently stands.


Last edited by VillageGreen on Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Les Miserable

Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 8:22 pm

VillageGreen wrote:
Dick Trickle wrote:
I politely suggest that it shouldn't secure its borders. These people are fleeing terror we would have no concept of. We should take our fair share. It is morally right to do so.


Seeing as the UK caused the problem in the first place partly due to the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts, it is right that the UK do something.

The bigger picture is daesh (along with its affiliated jihadi groups) and how to stop them. NATO and the West have got to sit down and figure that out, because if not, then daesh (along with its affiliated jihadi groups) will get stronger, more violent and we will see 1000s more migrants fleeing war zones and heading to Europe and the UK.

Daesh have recently been described as the biggest threat to world peace ever. They have the money, the weapons and are continuing to recruit from all over the world.

Sadly, there is no will in taking the fight to daesh (along with its affiliated jihadi groups) wherever they be (the Middle East, Asia and Africa) , well not yet anyway. In 2017, that attitude may change when the USA votes in a new President, who will probably be a Republican and he or she will see what daesh are really all about and take action with allies.

A fair few former British and American military personnel have said it is now the time to put boots on the ground in Iraq (again) Syria, Libya, parts of Asia and Africa and declare all out war on daesh (along with its affiliated jihadi groups). If that means calling up every person aged 18-40 to go and fight, then so be it. The only way to defeat the likes of daesh (along with its affiliated jihadi groups) is to occupy the above mentioned places for as long as it takes, even if that is for two, three or more generations. There is no other way.


scratch Really? That 'tactic' has never worked in any of our previous interventions/conflicts/wars.
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pepsipete

pepsipete

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 8:23 pm

Now Iran is recognized again, encourage them to clear Syria and Iraq of Daesh.
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Dick Trickle



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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 8:30 pm

My enemies enemies are my friends.

Cue Rumsfeld meeting Saddam...

I've got an idea. Let the world sort out its own problems without US and British intervention. Iraq, Syria, Lybia.....how bad could the alternative be?

Is there a region of this world that we have left to local rule in a better state? India, Israel/Palestine, Africa? But still we go on dictating how the world should do its business. We really are sanctimonious wankers.
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 8:58 pm

Iggy wrote:
Foul mouthed nasty crap, not moi shorely?
No, not you Iggy. You're getting paranoid. Laughing
My idea of a foul mouth isn't the usual feck this and that. I've long got used to that sort of thing on here. Well, everywhere really. I just don't talk the issues with the far right loons. No point.
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 9:00 pm

We were trying it on in Afghanistan in 1930, that was 80 years ago, about 3 generations later it's worse than it was. Our wars have caused this trouble, Corbyn has the answer but hardly anybody listens to the loony left.
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 9:06 pm

I firmly believe war is a sort of fever, a sort of El Nino or solar swayling.
I blame Michael Fish. Everything is his fault.
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 9:15 pm

Iggy wrote:
We were trying it on in Afghanistan in 1930, that was 80 years ago, about 3 generations later it's worse than it was. Our wars have caused this trouble, Corbyn has the answer but hardly anybody listens to the loony left.

Corbyn !!!!
The very man who curried Favor with the IRA and their affiliated groups, held a minutes silence after terrorists were killed at loughgall, and has pandered with Gerry Adams and Marty McGuiness.
Get him involved and we will all be under shariah law within 20 years.
Thanks but no thanks.
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Dick Trickle



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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 9:30 pm

Your considered response and prediction on shariah law is most welcome.

Syria is fecked because we always think we know best and if in doubt sell them arms. We have no moral status in this world. Cameron even now will do anything to protect the arms industry these people are escaping from and then pull up the drawbridge.

Every day that the UK and the right wing (immigrant owned) press continue to peddle lies that we are swamped is another day when lifeless children get washed ashore. It is shameful.
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VillageGreen

VillageGreen

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 9:30 pm

Les Miserable wrote:
VillageGreen wrote:
Dick Trickle wrote:
I politely suggest that it shouldn't secure its borders. These people are fleeing terror we would have no concept of. We should take our fair share. It is morally right to do so.


Seeing as the UK caused the problem in the first place partly due to the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts, it is right that the UK do something.

The bigger picture is daesh (along with its affiliated jihadi groups) and how to stop them. NATO and the West have got to sit down and figure that out, because if not, then daesh (along with its affiliated jihadi groups) will get stronger, more violent and we will see 1000s more migrants fleeing war zones and heading to Europe and the UK.

Daesh have recently been described as the biggest threat to world peace ever. They have the money, the weapons and are continuing to recruit from all over the world.

Sadly, there is no will in taking the fight to daesh (along with its affiliated jihadi groups) wherever they be (the Middle East, Asia and Africa) , well not yet anyway. In 2017, that attitude may change when the USA votes in a new President, who will probably be a Republican and he or she will see what daesh are really all about and take action with allies.

A fair few former British and American military personnel have said it is now the time to put boots on the ground in Iraq (again) Syria, Libya, parts of Asia and Africa and declare all out war on daesh (along with its affiliated jihadi groups). If that means calling up every person aged 18-40 to go and fight, then so be it. The only way to defeat the likes of daesh (along with its affiliated jihadi groups) is to occupy the above mentioned places for as long as it takes, even if that is for two, three or more generations. There is no other way.


scratch   Really?  That 'tactic'  has never worked in any of our previous interventions/conflicts/wars.


That is because we failed to remain there to this day and beyond. Had the US and the UK done that, we would not be seeing near as much as what we are seeing now, let alone what is happening.

The UK took part in bombing raids in Libya, along with allies, and look at the mess that country is in now. Daesh are growing in Libya, the conflict rumbles on and 1000s of refugees flee. There was no back-up plan to Libya. Then we had the Syrian vote fiasco, had the UK voted to go in then we would not be seeing the carnage we are now.

As I have said, Daesh in recent days are said to be the biggest threat to world peace, ever.

I found this article in the Independent from June 2015. It is an interesting read.

The current bombing raids on daesh are not working apparently, even if the allies are ramping up the heat. That is why former military officials have been calling for boots on the ground, they have been on Radio 5 Live over the past few months banging the drum to deaf ears.

I am no of lover of war, it is the last thing i would wish to see. As it stands at the moment, war is necessary. Either that or give in to Daesh and hand them what they want (on a plate) and worry about the group at a later date.

War againt Daesh is necessary and has been for months.

Look at what is going on in the Mediterranean, many of the refugees are from places like Africa, the Middle-East, some are even from Asia. All fleeing some form of jihadi (or related religious) violence.

If a mad jihadist group like Daesh (or even its allies) can make 1000s flee, and with ease seems, then that says we will have big-big trouble in the years to come.

Iran could do a job, but there are issues with that, similar to row bettween the kurds and Turks. Could Israel get involved at some point. It is highly probable no doubt, as Daesh are said to be near to the Israeli border.


Last edited by VillageGreen on Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 9:43 pm

Are you going to pop along and have a go then, Village ? Laughing
Or are you extoling everyone else to get togged up from your armchair ?
As I said, it's a fever that my grandfather warned me about as a child.
I'm after the all time British record, of not having a mass war involving conscription in my lifetime. I'm on for it, so I don't want anybody spoiling.

As for the Labour Party wanting Sharia law, what planet are you on Punchy ? They're more likely to get the Weslyans calling the shots, forcing us into their bible reading mornings with a tea and biscuit, followed by a Brent sermon on the wickedness of our ways.
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 10:09 pm

Sir John Hawkins wrote:
Are you going to pop along and have a go then, Village ? Laughing
Or are you extoling everyone else to get togged up from your armchair ?
As I said, it's a fever that my grandfather warned me about as a child.
I'm after the all time British record, of not having a mass war involving conscription in my lifetime. I'm on for it, so I don't want anybody spoiling.

As for the Labour Party wanting Sharia law, what planet are you on Punchy ? They're more likely to get the Weslyans calling the shots, forcing us into their bible reading mornings with a tea and biscuit, followed by a Brent sermon on the wickedness of our ways.

Not Labour, Just Corbyn.
Yet another example of the thundercnut

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/09/02/guardian-writer-if-burned-falklands-hero-knew-anything-hed-still-have-his-face/
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VillageGreen

VillageGreen

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 10:11 pm

Sir John Hawkins wrote:
Are you going to pop along and have a go then, Village ? Laughing
Or are you extoling everyone else to get togged up from your armchair ?
As I said, it's a fever that my grandfather warned me about as a child.
I'm after the all time British record, of not having a mass war involving conscription in my lifetime. I'm on for it, so I don't want anybody spoiling.

As for the Labour Party wanting Sharia law, what planet are you on Punchy ? They're more likely to get the Weslyans calling the shots, forcing us into their bible reading mornings with a tea and biscuit, followed by a Brent sermon on the wickedness of our ways.


If I was called up to do national service and fight against daesh, then yes, I would be happy to do that. It would be a moral duty to do so. If i could not go and fight daesh in the Middle-East (or further afield) due to age or poor health, then I would be willing to serve in a modern version of the home guard to keep these shores safe.

What do the West do about daesh ?.


Last edited by VillageGreen on Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dick Trickle



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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 10:11 pm

I won't get involved in this one anymore as I don't think there is too much leverage or flexibility on any side and I recognise that other people have differing views but the following comment is one I wished I had written.

"Unconscionable, immoral, inhuman, barbaric.

I am broiling with rage. I am ashamed of my country. I have often consoled myself that while we may not be a great people, or even a particularly good people, we will - when pushed - do what is right.

We are letting migrants drown in the mediterranean, we are closing our doors to those fleeing our wars and the monsters we helped make.

I am disgusted with us all, this country is small, mean, callous and cruel. We are unfit to call ourselves civilised as we have resigned our humanity, renounced our ethics and hold ourselves to no standards.

David Cameron, erstwhile Christian, leading an erstwhile Christian nation.

This is a black chapter for our country, and history will judge us harshly. I hope we will be damned for it by our children."
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AstiSpumante

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 10:13 pm

VillageGreen wrote:
Sir John Hawkins wrote:
Are you going to pop along and have a go then, Village ? Laughing
Or are you extoling everyone else to get togged up from your armchair ?
As I said, it's a fever that my grandfather warned me about as a child.
I'm after the all time British record, of not having a mass war involving conscription in my lifetime. I'm on for it, so I don't want anybody spoiling.

As for the Labour Party wanting Sharia law, what planet are you on Punchy ? They're more likely to get the Weslyans calling the shots, forcing us into their bible reading mornings with a tea and biscuit, followed by a Brent sermon on the wickedness of our ways.


If I was called up to do national service and fight against daesh, then yes, I would be happy to do that. It would be a moral duty to do so. If i could not go and fight daesh in the Middle-East (or further afield) due to age or poor health, then I would be willing to serve in a modern version of the home guard to keep these shores safe.

FFS! Don't panic !!!
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 10:15 pm

Dick Trickle wrote:
I won't get involved in this one anymore as I don't think there is too much leverage or flexibility on any side and I recognise that other people have differing views but the following comment is one I wished I had written.

"Unconscionable, immoral, inhuman, barbaric.

I am broiling with rage. I am ashamed of my country. I have often consoled myself that while we may not be a great people, or even a particularly good people, we will - when pushed - do what is right.

We are letting migrants drown in the mediterranean, we are closing our doors to those fleeing our wars and the monsters we helped make.

I am disgusted with us all, this country is small, mean, callous and cruel. We are unfit to call ourselves civilised as we have resigned our humanity, renounced our ethics and hold ourselves to no standards.

David Cameron, erstwhile Christian, leading an erstwhile Christian nation.

This is a black chapter for our country, and history will judge us harshly. I hope we will be damned for it by our children."

Or maybe were just full up ?
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 10:16 pm

Punchdrunk wrote:
Sir John Hawkins wrote:
Are you going to pop along and have a go then, Village ? Laughing
Or are you extoling everyone else to get togged up from your armchair ?
As I said, it's a fever that my grandfather warned me about as a child.
I'm after the all time British record, of not having a mass war involving conscription in my lifetime. I'm on for it, so I don't want anybody spoiling.

As for the Labour Party wanting Sharia law, what planet are you on Punchy ? They're more likely to get the Weslyans calling the shots, forcing us into their bible reading mornings with a tea and biscuit, followed by a Brent sermon on the wickedness of our ways.

Not Labour, Just Corbyn.
Yet another example of the thundercnut

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Are you seriously quoting Breitbart as a credible news source. Makes Fox look like cross-dressing, poetry reading, taco eating liberals.
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VillageGreen

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Net Immigration.....Again.   Mass Net Immigration.....Again. - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2015 10:22 pm

AstiSpumante wrote:
VillageGreen wrote:
Sir John Hawkins wrote:
Are you going to pop along and have a go then, Village ? Laughing
Or are you extoling everyone else to get togged up from your armchair ?
As I said, it's a fever that my grandfather warned me about as a child.
I'm after the all time British record, of not having a mass war involving conscription in my lifetime. I'm on for it, so I don't want anybody spoiling.

As for the Labour Party wanting Sharia law, what planet are you on Punchy ? They're more likely to get the Weslyans calling the shots, forcing us into their bible reading mornings with a tea and biscuit, followed by a Brent sermon on the wickedness of our ways.


If I was called up to do national service and fight against daesh, then yes, I would be happy to do that. It would be a moral duty to do so. If i could not go and fight daesh in the Middle-East (or further afield) due to age or poor health, then I would be willing to serve in a modern version of the home guard to keep these shores safe.

FFS!  Don't panic !!!

I can just see the Herald headlines now, 'The Plymouth Central Home Defence unit',  proudly keeping the streets safe and calm during a time of war.


Last edited by VillageGreen on Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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