Zebroski Jailed

No Rollo...
Same world. One that you don't seem part of.

It takes the expression " took one for the team" to a different level.

The judge was apportioning the amount of damages, not whether Zebroski was guilty.

Who knows what you mean by "took one for the team"...  Who took one?

Anyway....
Earth calling Rollo...

Judges or juries aren't in the habit of ordering innocent people to pay other people damages unless they are found to have done something wrong.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

It takes the expression " took one for the team" to a different level.

The judge was apportioning the amount of damages, not whether Zebroski was guilty.

You seem to be suggesting that 'he mocked my stutter your honour' is a legal defence that would get you cleared of putting over 100 stitches into someone's head?

Whilst I am no legal eagle, I'm pretty sure it doesnt.

In the same way that 'he spilt my pint', 'he jumped in front of me in the taxi queue', or 'well it started when he was chatting with my missus' doesn't reduce your sentence should you decide to bottle someone in the face.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Graiser wrote:

This thread is interesting reading, we have Damon who was actually there saying how it was and some refusing to believe him, so Damon has an axe grind has he ? Wouldn't think so.

If I read some opinions on here Wotton's a knob, well I suppose I could agree and pass on the same story, embellish it a bit and lo and behold Wotton becomes an even bigger knob.

But I don't know him and can only judge what I've seen on the pitch which was his leadership and his 100% acknowledgement of the fans after every game suggests perhaps not such of a knob.

Alledgely a bit of a pig to the youngsters ? Well who knows, but maybe a bit of tough love being misinterpreted to suit some agenda's ?

For me there's an eye witness who has clearly stated what was basically a violent assault and CZ who has  since proved to have violent criminal tendencies. So how should we judge the evidence ?

As for the alledged verbal abuse from Wotton, well most of ATD posters could be charged with that but I don't think anybody will be paying them a visit and wacking them across their lug holes

You could say the same for John Terry, doesn't stop him being a racist cheating scumbag does it?

Don't know him either but if the Sun prints it, it must be correct I suppose

youve lost me Graiser and I think you've lost yourself as well.

I bet no one ever abused Ronnie ''the gun'' Mauge

Graiser wrote:

This thread is interesting reading, we have Damon who was actually there saying how it was and some refusing to believe him, so Damon has an axe grind has he ? Wouldn't think so.

If I read some opinions on here Wotton's a knob, well I suppose I could agree and pass on the same story, embellish it a bit and lo and behold Wotton becomes an even bigger knob.

But I don't know him and can only judge what I've seen on the pitch which was his leadership and his 100% acknowledgement of the fans after every game suggests perhaps not such of a knob.

Alledgely a bit of a pig to the youngsters ? Well who knows, but maybe a bit of tough love being misinterpreted to suit some agenda's ?

For me there's an eye witness who has clearly stated what was basically a violent assault and CZ who has since proved to have violent criminal tendencies. So how should we judge the evidence ?

As for the alledged verbal abuse from Wotton, well most of ATD posters could be charged with that but I don't think anybody will be paying them a visit and wacking them across their lug holes

Funny we read the same thread differently.

I don't think anyone is "refusing to believe" what Damon saw but some are suggesting there was previous provocation that he hasn't seen and to this day remains in denial of which led to the events of the night in question.

You can't honestly believe taking the piss out of physical disabilities is "tough love" can you? There's laws against this sort of behaviour which the vast majority of society abide by, you're in a minority if so. Myself when I was a young apprentice went through 'initiations' as did many others, which the suits would turn a blind eye but there was a line that was never crossed.

Clearly Damon and the rest of the suits acted on what they saw that night, CZ was clearly guilty of assault or worse. It's still rather telling charges weren't pressed, Wotton got attacked not Hasney and Holloway's reactions to it all. If people have heard different versions leading up to said assault or worse from people they trust and respect, why should they be any less credible than Damon who has his own little bit of less glamorous history?

Coxside_Green wrote:

Graiser wrote:

This thread is interesting reading, we have Damon who was actually there saying how it was and some refusing to believe him, so Damon has an axe grind has he ? Wouldn't think so.

If I read some opinions on here Wotton's a knob, well I suppose I could agree and pass on the same story, embellish it a bit and lo and behold Wotton becomes an even bigger knob.

But I don't know him and can only judge what I've seen on the pitch which was his leadership and his 100% acknowledgement of the fans after every game suggests perhaps not such of a knob.

Alledgely a bit of a pig to the youngsters ? Well who knows, but maybe a bit of tough love being misinterpreted to suit some agenda's ?

For me there's an eye witness who has clearly stated what was basically a violent assault and CZ who has  since proved to have violent criminal tendencies. So how should we judge the evidence ?

As for the alledged verbal abuse from Wotton, well most of ATD posters could be charged with that but I don't think anybody will be paying them a visit and wacking them across their lug holes

Funny we read the same thread differently.

I don't think anyone is "refusing to believe" what Damon saw but some are suggesting there was previous provocation that he hasn't seen and to this day remains in denial of which led to the events of the night in question.

You can't honestly believe taking the piss out of physical disabilities is "tough love" can you?  There's laws against this sort of behaviour which the vast majority of society abide by, you're in a minority if so.  Myself when I was a young apprentice went through 'initiations' as did many others, which the suits would turn a blind eye but there was a line that was never crossed.

Clearly Damon and the rest of the suits acted on what they saw that night, CZ was clearly guilty of assault or worse.  It's still rather telling charges weren't pressed, Wotton got attacked not Hasney and Holloway's reactions to it all.  If people have heard different versions leading up to said assault or worse from people they trust and respect, why should they be any less credible than Damon who has his own little bit of less glamorous history?

Absolutely. As with most things[particularly Argyle related], far too many seem incapable of seeing the highly likely, bigger picture

The club hearing heard all sides of the argument. We also had representatives of the PFA at the hearing. Having heard all the evidence from both camps CZ was dismissed. My less than glamorous history is totally irrelevant. CG taking a leaf out of the Noolly book of internet discussions.

It's relevant to what people want to believe when it comes to people they respect and trust, or not as the case may be.

The PFA weren't there were they, where's the relevance in their presence?  Just more suits hiding behind suits.

Apologies for bringing up your past.  I wasn't wanting to make an issue out of it but felt it necessary to put my point across.

I'm also wondering why you would consider my comment "out of the Noolly book of internet discussions".  That's pretty defensive lolzz.  Your past has been well documented after all.  You have a history, nothing more nothing less.

But totally irrelevant to the discussion - playing the man not the ball.

The PFA were there representing CZ. They had no problem with the decision to sack one of their members after hearing all the evidence.

It was relevant to my reply to graiser who cites you as a credible witness to events over other people's opinions who declare they know a little bit more than you. Nobody's saying you were wrong but some feel you didn't have or perhaps you even ignored further facts which added to the whole sorry affair.

How old was CZ, who represented him? It's not really surprising the suits 'won'. Come on Damon.

A PFA rep reoresented him - they're his Union. They put his side of events. That's what happens in a hearing. And the PFA rep was wearing a suit too.

The CZ backers are clutching at straws now...

Face it.... Everyone finds CZ guilty of just being an arsehole apart from a few wacky conspiracy theorists who dislike Wotton.

Childish really...

My bad, who advised him before seeing a PFA suit?

He was clearly guilty of what he done.  There was only ever one story to tell if he wasn't the next 'star'.  That for me is the difference in opinions on this thread.

To Damon obviously.

Rickler wrote:

The CZ backers are clutching at straws now...

Face it.... Everyone finds CZ guilty of just being an arsehole apart from a few wacky conspiracy theorists who dislike Wotton.

Childish really...

I know you know better than some are 'clutching at straws'. Must be the 'ambassador' jig.

You weren't there either.

What history of Damon's are you trying to bring up here, to suggest in any way he can't have a reliable opinion on an assault that apparently took place before both him and his family at a dinner table?

Maybe you would need to have your young children witness such an assault leaving a man's ear hanging off his head before you can agree it was an extraordinarily violent reaction that was out of order.

The extent to which Paul Wotton 'bullied' Zebroski is disputable. Some of you take it as 100% fact that Wotton coordinated a sinister campaign to belittle him and virtually ruin his life. I personally think on the evidence suggests Zebroski is a violent and dangerous individual who doesn't behave or react in the normal ways. What could be 'banter' for one apprentice and taken in their stride, used as character building, was the trigger of a grievous assault when it came to Zebroski.

Even if you were to accept Wotton's bullying was excessive and horrible, which is far from certain judging from player reactions, there are ways of dealing with it that don't involve the extreme violence Zebroski opted for. Trying to deal with it via the club or PFA being the obvious routes. If Wotton had continued the disgraceful bullying he keeps getting accused of, there would have been grounds for dismissal.

But as I say, Zebroski has demonstrated a path for violence so many times since that you really need to question whether Wotton would have needed to tease him much at all to get such a reaction from him. So I think it is better to keep an open mind really on how much abuse Wotton was really giving the fella.

Damon's history has been well documented so I have no interest in bringing that to light unless I really have to.  

Nobody is denying the assault that took place.

What is questionable is the events that led to the assault.  Another with seemingly reasonable intelligence blatantly refusing to believe CZ might have actually been bullied to such an extent he could no longer cope.  A teen with a few beers inside him pushed to the limit of attacking his bully?  Yeah let's blame him and not the bully.

Coxside_Green wrote:

Damon's history has been well documented so I have no interest in bringing that to light unless I really have to.  

Nobody is denying the assault that took place.

What is questionable is the events that led to the assault.  Another with seemingly reasonable intelligence blatantly refusing to believe CZ might have actually been bullied to such an extent he could no longer cope.  A teen with a few beers inside him pushed to the limit of attacking his bully?  Yeah let's blame him and not the bully.

You brought up Damon's history, noone else, but we are all scratching our heads now as to why it is relevant regarding what Damon heard, saw and witnessed in Austria?

As for CZ, I refuse to believe rumours that have not been publicly backed by anyone who was there that Wotton pushed Zebroski to breaking point. The only thing that has been established since is that Paul Wotton has been regarded as interacting well enough with the players to be appointed as a first team coach, meanwhile Zebroski is serving 4 years and 4 months in prison for one of many other incidents in which he has behaved disproportionately aggressive and violent.

Nobody had 'a few beers' inside them. It all happened at the beginning of the evening - we were on our first drink.

No, we're not all "scratching our heads", you are. How many more times, nobody is denying what happened in Austria. For some reason though some are going to great lengths to actually oppose what some consider more 'truthful' accuracies leading up to the event. Some are saying the bully got done, is it really that big a deal unless you need to defend yourself against that legally? Damon put himself forward, nobody asked to.

Personally, I feel a bit for CZ. A young teen at CCC PAFC with a future ahead of him. Shit happened and he was potentially hounded out despite a bullying culture. No wonder he ended up on the wrong path, despite his initial effort.

Damon.Lenszner wrote:

Nobody had 'a few beers' inside them. It all happened at the beginning of the evening - we were on our first drink.

Which goes further to show how 'deep' the situation was. Why weren't you aware? (ok, I am jesting a bit here), the fact is you at best missed it.

Coxside_Green wrote:

Personally, I feel a bit for CZ.  A young teen at CCC PAFC with a future ahead of him.  Shit happened and he was potentially hounded out despite a bullying culture.  No wonder he ended up on the wrong path, despite his initial effort.

A "bullying culture" and "hounded out"..

Now you're just making shit up.