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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyTue Oct 20, 2015 9:28 am

The bribe to the council should seal it, then watch as the homes are built and the other bits and bobs scaled back. Plymouth can have a thriving airport as it did before, Brymon were very busy as I was entertaining some of their female staff back in the eighties.
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyTue Oct 20, 2015 9:50 am

Hengist wrote:
The bribe to the council should seal it, then watch as the homes are built and the other bits and bobs scaled back. Plymouth can have a thriving airport as it did before, Brymon were very busy as I was entertaining some of their female staff back in the eighties.


Shouldn't that be boarding Smile
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zyph

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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyTue Oct 20, 2015 9:55 am

A city of a 250,000 needs it's own Airport......especially when it is so off the beaten tracks of commerce.....it will never grow and produce the economy that would bring industry and jobs to an area that is desperate for developement.

Young people will continue to seek work elsewhere....and settle and marry and put roots down away from the SW.......you can tell by the size of PASALB membership how employment fluctuates in Plymouth....as a member since it started in 1976....I have noticed that as a fact.

An Airport is necessary for growth and prosperity......anything else is small minded thinking.
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Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyTue Oct 20, 2015 10:17 am

There are already TWO sites south of the derriford roundabout bottleneck vying for public approval prior to planning, the old Seaton Barracks site and across the road on the SWW site. Both of these are way more appropriate in virtually every aspect and of course these options mean that Derriford roundabout and the single lane bottleneck just north on Tavistock Rd don't have to be negotiated.

SHH are just desperate to cash in. Simple as that.
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Angry

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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyTue Oct 20, 2015 10:24 am

zyph wrote:
A city of a 250,000 needs it's own Airport......especially when it is so off the beaten tracks of commerce.....it will never grow and produce the economy that would bring industry and jobs to an area that is desperate for developement.

Young people will continue to seek work elsewhere....and settle and marry and put roots down away from the SW.......you can tell by the size of PASALB membership how employment fluctuates in Plymouth....as a member since it started in 1976....I have noticed that as a fact.

An Airport is necessary for growth and prosperity......anything else is small minded thinking.

i agree with you Plymouth needs an airport maybe not an international one like exeter but certainly a satellite one with links to the major cities in the uk will do perfectly.
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Tgwu

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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyTue Oct 20, 2015 3:58 pm

Airport homes plan is 'wishful thinking', says Fly Plymouth campaign boss

PLANS to transform Plymouth Airport into a new residential community have been dismissed as “wishful thinking” by a group bidding to reintroduce passenger planes.

Yesterday Sutton Harbour Holdings (SHH) unveiled a report which found the disused airfield could become the city’s “powerhouse” by providing 1,600 new homes, 700 jobs and generating millions of pounds for the city.

But Raoul Witherall, chief executive of Fly Plymouth, says his group’s aim of bringing the airport back to life by 2018 is still on track.

“This is not unexpected, the intention to sell off the land for redevelopment has been known for a long time,” he said.

But it is an airport, and it will continue to be an airport, secured until 2031 under the Plymouth Plan on the basis of evidence.”

The Plymouth Plan, the council’s strategic blueprint for how the city develops over the next 15 years and beyond, currently recommends protecting the airport for aviation – but the document is still undergoing consultation.

Mr Witherall said SHH’s housing proposals would generate less economic activity for the city than a fully restored airport.

“It is realistic to get passenger services back there, the evidence exists,” he said.

“Plymouth’s number one priority is transport, that’s our number one need.”

UKIP councillor Maddi Bridgeman said: “I’ve been campaigning for years to protect this airport and I cannot understand why SHH have released this report now when 38,000 people signed a petition to save it and 57 councillors recently all voted in support of the Plymouth Plan.

“Plymouth is a massive city, we’re on about growth, we want to be internationally recognised, so to release this now is absolutely ludicrous. It’s thoughtless, and shows a disregard for the people of Plymouth.”

“The people of Plymouth are supporting Fly Plymouth, we’ve got financial backing, we will make it work.”

The report, commissioned by SHH and published by research consultancy Regeneris, looks at the social and economic impact of creating a new community comprised of 1,600 homes, a hotel, gym, restaurants, shops, a park, a school and a ‘cycling hub’ velodrome.

The report concludes that the site could become a new “garden suburb”, creating 360 new jobs and bringing £60million to the city over the next 10 years.

SHH boss Jason Schofield said: “Mothballing it for hoped-for general aviation use for the few that can afford to pursue flying as a hobby would be a backward step and hold the city back, especially given the compelling evidence that an airport on this site cannot work.”

Poll results

THE Herald ran an online poll asking readers of plymouthherald.co.uk what should happen to the city’s airport.

A total of 376 people voted, with 86 per cent saying the site should be reopened with flights in and out of the city.

Just 12 per cent believed it should be developed with housing and a community, and two per cent want something else.

To have your say, write to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], tweet us @plymouthherald or send us a Facebook message at facebook.com/plymouthherald
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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyTue Oct 20, 2015 4:03 pm

It seems to me that the only reason anybody wants an airport at Plymouth is because they think Plymouth 'needs' an Airport, not that they will use it themselves. I still haven't been convinced that any operators will want to run any routes from there
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Tgwu

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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyTue Oct 20, 2015 4:09 pm

I used it and Argyle used it
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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyTue Oct 20, 2015 4:24 pm

Most regional airports are failing. Blackpool has gone recently, Royal Mail are looking to offload Bournemouth and Cardiff is being kept afloat by the Welsh Government. If you're looking to attract carriers as Plymouth would because I don't see any busting a gut to use it, they will have to practically give slots away whilst its proves its viability.
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Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyTue Oct 20, 2015 4:41 pm

My view on SHH's plans for the Airport land is similar to my views on Brent's horrendous plans for HHP.

Once the un-extendable mini stand was built and boxed in by the ice rink, that would have been it. Village for a generation.

The Roborough site scenario would be even worse. No potential airport for Plymouth EVER again.

None of us know how the economy is going to pan out over the next ten twenty thirty years. The option, however viable/unviable it may be to open the airport again, should be kept and safeguarded for the potential prosperity of our city.
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tigertony

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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyWed Oct 21, 2015 12:58 am

If the airlines used helicopters they could build a heliport backing onto the new grandstand. Need a hotel as well .. oh and some shops ....
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Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyWed Oct 21, 2015 1:38 am

When Plymouth had an Airport, what cities did the flights come and go to?

Apart from London, Maybe Manchester and Glasgow, I can't imagine enough people coming in and out of Plymouth to make routes sustainable?

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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyWed Oct 21, 2015 8:53 am

Rickler wrote:
When Plymouth had an Airport, what cities did the flights come and go to?

Apart from London, Maybe Manchester and Glasgow, I can't imagine enough people coming in and out of Plymouth to make routes sustainable?


Exactly! Anyone that insists Plymouth 'needs' an airport is vastly overestimating not only demand but potential supply from operators. I think there's a lack of understanding how airports operate, its not like a railway station an operator needs to commit to using the airport and I don't see anyone prepared to do that.
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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyWed Oct 21, 2015 11:33 am

We managed to run a busy airport in the seventies and eighties but its being argued that with an ever expanding population there will never, ever be a need now or in the future for one. Work on the new Sherford town is just starting with I believe 8000 homes, another 20k odd in population alone, Tavistock, Launceston alone have another couple of thousand homes coming also. We must look to the future and the future isn't Exeter when you live in Plymouth or Cornwall.
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Tgwu

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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyWed Oct 21, 2015 12:52 pm

Rickler wrote:
When Plymouth had an Airport, what cities did the flights come and go to?

Apart from London, Maybe Manchester and Glasgow, I can't imagine enough people coming in and out of Plymouth to make routes sustainable?


Air Southwest served the following destinations throughout operations:

City           Country IATA ICAO Airport
Aberdeen United   Scotland  ABZ EGPD Aberdeen Airport
Bristol United Kingdom England BRS EGGD Bristol Airport [Base]
Cardiff United Kingdom  Wales CWL EGFF Cardiff Airport
Cork          Ireland ORK EICK Cork Airport
Dublin Ireland DUB EIDW Dublin Airport
Dundee United Kingdom  Scotland DND EGPN Dundee Airport [Seasonal]
Glasgow United Kingdom  Scotland GLA EGPF Glasgow International Airport
Guernsey Guernsey GCI EGJB Guernsey Airport
Jersey Jersey JER EGJJ Jersey Airport
Leeds/Bradford United Kingdom  England LBA EGNM Leeds Bradford International Airport
Manchester  United Kingdom  England MAN EGCC Manchester Airport
Newquay United Kingdom  England NQY EGHQ Newquay Cornwall Airport [Base]
Plymouth United Kingdom  England PLH EGHD Plymouth City Airport [Base]
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyWed Oct 21, 2015 12:57 pm

No Landan mate?
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Rollo Tomasi



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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyWed Oct 21, 2015 1:06 pm

I've only just seen, for the first time, the development in and around the airport. Are the road names not taking the p**s? Brymon this, Jetstream that, etc.

There's no way the airport will reopen. It's too close to the new builds now. Add in the noise and pollution, no chance.

SHH have played a blinder. Introduce flights that no one wants to use and then claim passenger numbers are down and therefore not viable. They're not even subtle.

It's not unlike Argyle's race to the bottom. Get in so much debt and then claim the only solution is to sell Home Park. To themselves of course.

The financial crash put paid to that scam but the modus operandi remains.
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Tgwu

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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyWed Oct 21, 2015 1:18 pm

Les Miserable wrote:
No Landan mate?

Gatwick and London City, sorry
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Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyWed Oct 21, 2015 1:54 pm

Rollo Tomasi wrote:
I've only just seen, for the first time, the development in and around the airport. Are the road names not taking the p**s?  Brymon this, Jetstream that, etc.

There's no way the airport will reopen. It's too close to the new builds now. Add in the noise and pollution, no chance.

SHH have played a blinder. Introduce flights that no one wants to use and then claim passenger numbers are down and therefore not viable. They're not even subtle.

It's not unlike Argyle's race to the bottom. Get in so much debt and then claim the only solution is to sell Home Park. To themselves of course.

The financial crash put paid to that scam but the modus operandi remains.

With regard to SHH's ulterior motive - securing the lease with the intention to wind down operations before activating the Armageddon clause - you're quite right. It has been glaringly obvious from the start.

As an aside, it must have royally pissed them off when they realised they wouldn't just be able to sell to the highest bidding house builder. Very Happy
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Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyWed Oct 21, 2015 2:02 pm

Tgwu wrote:
Rickler wrote:
When Plymouth had an Airport, what cities did the flights come and go to?

Apart from London, Maybe Manchester and Glasgow, I can't imagine enough people coming in and out of Plymouth to make routes sustainable?


Air Southwest served the following destinations throughout operations:

City                 Country       IATA ICAO Airport
Aberdeen United   Scotland  ABZ EGPD Aberdeen Airport
Bristol United Kingdom England BRS EGGD Bristol Airport [Base]
Cardiff United Kingdom  Wales CWL EGFF Cardiff Airport
Cork          Ireland ORK EICK Cork Airport
Dublin Ireland DUB EIDW Dublin Airport
Dundee United Kingdom  Scotland DND EGPN Dundee Airport [Seasonal]
Glasgow United Kingdom  Scotland GLA EGPF Glasgow International Airport
Guernsey Guernsey GCI EGJB Guernsey Airport
Jersey Jersey JER EGJJ Jersey Airport
Leeds/Bradford United Kingdom  England LBA EGNM Leeds Bradford International Airport
Manchester  United Kingdom  England MAN EGCC Manchester Airport
Newquay United Kingdom  England NQY EGHQ Newquay Cornwall Airport [Base]
Plymouth United Kingdom  England PLH EGHD Plymouth City Airport [Base]

Used to do the Jersey route every summer on the Dash7 to see family over there.

I was sure I'd flown to Norwich (bizarrely) from Plymouth but that may have been from Bristol.

Jet set willy, me.
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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyWed Oct 21, 2015 2:08 pm

Tgwu wrote:
Rickler wrote:
When Plymouth had an Airport, what cities did the flights come and go to?

Apart from London, Maybe Manchester and Glasgow, I can't imagine enough people coming in and out of Plymouth to make routes sustainable?


Air Southwest served the following destinations throughout operations:

City                 Country       IATA ICAO Airport
Aberdeen United   Scotland  ABZ EGPD Aberdeen Airport
Bristol United Kingdom England BRS EGGD Bristol Airport [Base]
Cardiff United Kingdom  Wales CWL EGFF Cardiff Airport
Cork          Ireland ORK EICK Cork Airport
Dublin Ireland DUB EIDW Dublin Airport
Dundee United Kingdom  Scotland DND EGPN Dundee Airport [Seasonal]
Glasgow United Kingdom  Scotland GLA EGPF Glasgow International Airport
Guernsey Guernsey GCI EGJB Guernsey Airport
Jersey Jersey JER EGJJ Jersey Airport
Leeds/Bradford United Kingdom  England LBA EGNM Leeds Bradford International Airport
Manchester  United Kingdom  England MAN EGCC Manchester Airport
Newquay United Kingdom  England NQY EGHQ Newquay Cornwall Airport [Base]
Plymouth United Kingdom  England PLH EGHD Plymouth City Airport [Base]

And it closed because of low demand.
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Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyWed Oct 21, 2015 4:35 pm

Hugh Watt wrote:
Tgwu wrote:
Rickler wrote:
When Plymouth had an Airport, what cities did the flights come and go to?

Apart from London, Maybe Manchester and Glasgow, I can't imagine enough people coming in and out of Plymouth to make routes sustainable?


Air Southwest served the following destinations throughout operations:

City                 Country       IATA ICAO Airport
Aberdeen United   Scotland  ABZ EGPD Aberdeen Airport
Bristol United Kingdom England BRS EGGD Bristol Airport [Base]
Cardiff United Kingdom  Wales CWL EGFF Cardiff Airport
Cork          Ireland ORK EICK Cork Airport
Dublin Ireland DUB EIDW Dublin Airport
Dundee United Kingdom  Scotland DND EGPN Dundee Airport [Seasonal]
Glasgow United Kingdom  Scotland GLA EGPF Glasgow International Airport
Guernsey Guernsey GCI EGJB Guernsey Airport
Jersey Jersey JER EGJJ Jersey Airport
Leeds/Bradford United Kingdom  England LBA EGNM Leeds Bradford International Airport
Manchester  United Kingdom  England MAN EGCC Manchester Airport
Newquay United Kingdom  England NQY EGHQ Newquay Cornwall Airport [Base]
Plymouth United Kingdom  England PLH EGHD Plymouth City Airport [Base]

And it closed because of low demand.

Do you work for SHH, Hugh? Very Happy

They ran it into the ground to make a killing on the sale of the leasehold land to developers.

I know you believe they can't, but shorely if FlyPlymouth can somehow make it viable for commercial flights to return, that has to be good for Plymouth, yes?
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyWed Oct 21, 2015 4:46 pm

Tgwu wrote:
Les Miserable wrote:
No Landan mate?

Gatwick and London City, sorry


Thanks/OK   I remember flying to London in the late 80s/early 90s in what seemed like a right old bone shaker with a lawnmower engine, enough to put you off flying for life pale
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Tgwu

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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyWed Oct 21, 2015 4:58 pm

Flew to Gatwick many time plane was alright, SSH sold out to Eastern Airways
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Airport   Airport - Page 4 EmptyWed Oct 21, 2015 5:06 pm

Hugh Watt wrote:
Tgwu wrote:
Rickler wrote:
When Plymouth had an Airport, what cities did the flights come and go to?

Apart from London, Maybe Manchester and Glasgow, I can't imagine enough people coming in and out of Plymouth to make routes sustainable?


Air Southwest served the following destinations throughout operations:

City                 Country       IATA ICAO Airport
Aberdeen United   Scotland  ABZ EGPD Aberdeen Airport
Bristol United Kingdom England BRS EGGD Bristol Airport [Base]
Cardiff United Kingdom  Wales CWL EGFF Cardiff Airport
Cork          Ireland ORK EICK Cork Airport
Dublin Ireland DUB EIDW Dublin Airport
Dundee United Kingdom  Scotland DND EGPN Dundee Airport [Seasonal]
Glasgow United Kingdom  Scotland GLA EGPF Glasgow International Airport
Guernsey Guernsey GCI EGJB Guernsey Airport
Jersey Jersey JER EGJJ Jersey Airport
Leeds/Bradford United Kingdom  England LBA EGNM Leeds Bradford International Airport
Manchester  United Kingdom  England MAN EGCC Manchester Airport
Newquay United Kingdom  England NQY EGHQ Newquay Cornwall Airport [Base]
Plymouth United Kingdom  England PLH EGHD Plymouth City Airport [Base]

And it closed because of low demand.

There was plenty of demand for the London routes but they lost their slots at the the other end.

I'm not convinced that purely commercial economics is always the right measure. In this case it measures not how much Plymouh benefits but how much the airline does.

It may not be commercially viable but that doesn't mean there's no benefit in having it. The trick here is balance the running losses against the benefit, for want of a better word, it brings to the city. If the airport brought in £10m then subsidising it to the tune of, say, £1m (figures plucked out of thin air - I have no idea what they are) would make perfect sense.

Linking in to the global flight network is essential. Imagine how handy it would be to check your luggage in at Roborough and then pick it up again on arrival in NY/Joburg/Sydney/Beijing or wherever. It'd probably even make sense to use it for holidays in the Med.

Internal flights could surely be worked rather like an aerial bus? Fly a loop around the UK: Newquay - Plymouth - Bristol - Manchester/Liverpool - Belfast - Glasgow - Aberdeen - Newcastle - Norwich - Southampton/Bournemouth - Exeter - Newquay? Two planes going in opposite directions? Why not? Too many stops? Cut a few.

One of the things which is bad about living down here is how difficult it is to get nearly anywhere abroad. Not many useful international flights leave "locally"; the ferry service takes ages; the chunnel is so far away it may as well not be there; Eurostar isn't much use to us. Now think how off-putting it must be if you are a foreign investor looking to locate a widget factory somewhere - Plymouth wouldn't even be on the radar, would it?

I'm fairly sure it could be made to work well enough even if it wasn't able to operate profitably.
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