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PostSubject: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyFri Oct 10, 2014 4:48 pm

So, UKIP have their first MP, to be followed by another at the next by-election. UKIP is no shining example of democracy, UKIP does not respect British political institutions - if they did they wouldn't have manipulated the political system just to get a couple of representatives into Parliament 8 months before a general election.

Farage is a fraud, an ex-city boy, commodity broker, son of City man and an alumnus of Dulwich College, member of the Eton Group of exclusive public schools. His anti-EU stance is based on xenophobia, German wife notwithstanding. He has allowed high ranking party officals to commit 'gaff' after 'gaff' to attract the very dregs of the BNP vote, then steps in to take 'decisive action' to keep the 'respectable' middle-classes onside and appear as a strong leader (not diffcult faced with Dave, Miligoon and Traitor Clegg). How can this man possibly represent a new start for Britain? He is from the same ruling clique as the rest of them, and cringeworthy photos of him drinking pints here there and everywhere don't change that.

To some extent, the educated middle-class voters who vote for him are a disgrace - they should know better than to vote for the lowest common denominator. However, to see him picking up votes in working-class Labour seats is tragic. The less well-off, thoroughly screwed by the Tories in the 1980s/1990s, betrayed by Labour and now being shafted by the coalition have nowhere left to turn, but being poor and voting for Farage is like plump poultry voting for the festive season. Labour, with their massive majorities in 1997 and 2001 had a chance to radically reform the country and do something for the least well-off. Instead they did the bare minimum. I had hoped (and still do) that we would see a real left-wing alternative emerge. The UKIP threat shouldn't be used as an excuse to cravenly vote Labour again; I hope people stick to their guns, read the manifestos and vote for the ideas and the candidates that best represents their opinion.

I hear that Plymouth Moor View is a prority target for UKIP; is this the seat in which one of this site's good friends (Mr Jameson is it...?) is standing? In which case, rock or hard place: your choice!!
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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyFri Oct 10, 2014 5:01 pm

charleymouse wrote:
So, UKIP have their first MP, to be followed by another at the next by-election. UKIP is no shining example of democracy, UKIP does not respect British political institutions - if they did they wouldn't have manipulated the political system just to get a couple of representatives into Parliament 8 months before a general election.

Farage is a fraud, an ex-city boy, commodity broker, son of City man and an alumnus of Dulwich College, member of the Eton Group of exclusive public schools. His anti-EU stance is based on xenophobia, German wife notwithstanding. He has allowed high ranking party officals to commit 'gaff' after 'gaff' to attract the very dregs of the BNP vote, then steps in to take 'decisive action' to keep the 'respectable' middle-classes onside and appear as a strong leader (not diffcult faced with Dave, Miligoon and Traitor Clegg). How can this man possibly represent a new start for Britain? He is from the same ruling clique as the rest of them, and cringeworthy photos of him drinking pints here there and everywhere don't change that.

To some extent, the educated middle-class voters who vote for him are a disgrace - they should know better than to vote for the lowest common denominator. However, to see him picking up votes in working-class Labour seats is tragic. The less well-off, thoroughly screwed by the Tories in the 1980s/1990s, betrayed by Labour and now being shafted by the coalition have nowhere left to turn, but being poor and voting for Farage is like plump poultry voting for the festive season. Labour, with their massive majorities in 1997 and 2001 had a chance to radically reform the country and do something for the least well-off. Instead they did the bare minimum. I had hoped (and still do) that we would see a real left-wing alternative emerge. The UKIP threat shouldn't be used as an excuse to cravenly vote Labour again; I hope people stick to their guns, read the manifestos and vote for the ideas and the candidates that best represents their opinion.

I hear that Plymouth Moor View is a priority target for UKIP; is this the seat in which one of this site's good friends (Mr Jameson is it...?) is standing? In which case, rock or hard place: your choice!!

Labour refuse to listen to the public and will not accept they caused the deficit so UKIP will hoover up protest votes as a result. Its the same outcome for those affected and disappointed in the ConDem government.

Next May will be interesting, if the main 3 still continue to ignore UKIP and the protest votes it will hit them hard.
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zyph

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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyFri Oct 10, 2014 5:17 pm

Conservatives....just keep the peasants in there place.

Labour.....not the slightest sign of leadership.

Lib/Dem.....traitors one and all.

Ukip....a tool to stir the apathy at Westminster.

Maybe they can do us all a good turn and help find real leaders to put the UK first before the EU.....from whatever party they may be in.

At present this country is spiralling downhill....nearly as quick as our football team.
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Tgwu

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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyFri Oct 10, 2014 5:20 pm

Well put young man
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Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyFri Oct 10, 2014 5:20 pm

I'm pretty sure Jamesons Internet misdemeanors, many of them archived, will haunt him should he ever attempt to stand.
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zyph

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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyFri Oct 10, 2014 5:42 pm

It seems that Plymouth Moor View have endorsed Alison Seabeck as there candidate for the 2015 general election.....she has held the seat since 2005....although with a reduced majority last time....... so Lee J will be looking elsewhere.
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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyFri Oct 10, 2014 5:42 pm

Might be an opportunity for a high profile Ex pat to swoop in.

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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyFri Oct 10, 2014 9:02 pm

voters dont trust the lib dems after 'sliding' with the tories. ukip will take a hefty tory vote so not cut and dried by any means. another coalition is likely but ukip-tory ??????
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downthetrack

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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyFri Oct 10, 2014 9:41 pm

13 Years of liebour gave us 1 mill youth unemployment. Had they invested in the youth instead of low skilled crap from poor EU Countries .Labour would still be in power now.
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Lord Tisdale

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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptySun Oct 12, 2014 9:31 pm

I would not give the drivel of an OP the benefit if it didn't started with a bollocks premise, wee Dougie is not the first UKIP MP, your lack of knowledge on that point probably explains why the rest of the post is such drivel.

Brownie points for anyone that can tell me who was the first.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptySun Oct 12, 2014 9:38 pm

Oswald Mosely?
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptySun Oct 12, 2014 9:48 pm

Sorry. I got muddled up.

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Not Ossie.
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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptySun Oct 12, 2014 10:31 pm

Game set and fooking match Sir Frank, you can resume your bowls now.

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Lord Melbury



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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyMon Oct 13, 2014 8:39 am

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Sorry. I got muddled up.

Indeed you did SFD.

Firstly a spelling mistake, his surname was MOSLEY. Difficult to convince people of your argument if you can't even spell his name !

Secondly, you omit to tell readers that immediately prior to forming the B.U.F. Oswald Mosley stood as a Labour MP for five years, almost as long as he stood as a Tory (six years).

I can't imagine why you might forget to mention something as significant as that.
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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyMon Oct 13, 2014 11:17 am

Because Mosely was just a chancer looking for a home; somewhere to establish the poison of his politics; somewhere weak enough to allow him to inculcate his nascent ideas; somewhere daft enough not to see through him for what he was.

But it's difficult to convince people of your argument if you have to hide the name he chose for his party ("British Union Of Fascists") behind an acronym.

Just in case there is any doubt whatsoever concerning what Mowslee was here's a picture of him.

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(And I don't give a hoot about how his name is spelled.)
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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyMon Oct 13, 2014 11:24 am

How many of the 14 does UKIP tick off?

Quote :
The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labour Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labour is the only real threat to a fascist government, labour unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyMon Oct 13, 2014 11:26 am

If it walks like duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck then it is probably a duck.
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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyMon Oct 13, 2014 12:38 pm

I think you'll find that your fourteen points of fascism could relate equally well to the Tories franny, apart from the sexism bit which all parties try to keep under wraps these days.
Massive own goal there. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyMon Oct 13, 2014 1:47 pm

I also read today that the pay of the top 100 FTSE directors has gone up by 21% as a reward for cutting the pay of all the people that actually earn that money for them, and people wonder why we have UKIP?
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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyMon Oct 13, 2014 3:37 pm

Lord Tisdale wrote:
I would not give the drivel of an OP the benefit if it didn't started with a bollocks premise, wee Dougie is not the first UKIP MP, your lack of knowledge on that point probably explains why the rest of the post is such drivel.

Brownie points for anyone that can tell me who was the first.

Bob Spink in 2008.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyMon Oct 13, 2014 4:08 pm

Iggy wrote:
I think you'll find that your fourteen points of fascism could relate equally well to the Tories franny, apart from the sexism bit which all parties try to keep under wraps these days.
Massive own goal there. Very Happy

I think that reinforces rather than weakens the point because it illustrates just how massive the shift to the right in British politics. In days gone by Nigey would be seen as a swivel-eyed lunatic whereas today it seems to be "good ol' Nige!" all the time. You only have to look at how right wing the Labour Party has become to prove it. "Red Ed"? Don't make me laugh!

Here's a serious question: can anybody name a single Labour Party policy that could be considered to be "socialist" in any way?

I know I can't.

There is nothing, nothing serious anyway, on the left of British politics anymore; the Labour Party is, at best, centrist; the Liberals sit where the traditional Tories once did; the Tories are worryingly quasi-extremist; UKIP to the right of them.

Frightening, isn't it!
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyMon Oct 13, 2014 4:28 pm

No.
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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyMon Oct 13, 2014 4:40 pm

Voting nowadays is like picking the lesser of five evils, it's like being asked if you would rather die by stabbing, shooting, strangling, drowning or stoning?
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Lord Melbury



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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyMon Oct 13, 2014 5:15 pm

I keep reading that the Tories, Labour or the Lib Dems have moved to the left, right or wherever.

The reality is that you can't get a fag paper between any of their policies & they all occupy the same left of centre ground. This is probably because Westminster, now responsible for only 20% of domestic legislation, is now only a puppet government for our real government in Brussels/Strasbourg.

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PostSubject: Re: UKIP's first MP   UKIP's first MP EmptyMon Oct 13, 2014 5:39 pm

It's all about charisma, not policies. I doubt if many of Clacton's fine electorate could name a single UKIP policy. All the recent successful politicians - Blair, Salmond, Boris Johnson, Ken Livingstone, Farage, Obama - have stood out not because they're brilliant policy-makers, but because they know how to pitch to people. Nigel Farage could read out Michael Foot's 1983 'suicide note' manifesto (it's equally nonsensical as the shambles that is Ukip's) and still win by-elections. Actual policy has nothing to do with politics.
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