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Charlie Wood

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptyFri May 23, 2014 5:21 pm

Well Franny, if that was a bad night for UKIP I'd be very interested to see a good one. Taking Plymouth seats off both main parties is interesting for this area, and we still have to see what Monday morning brings.

Also interesting you highlight the London results, IMHO everything about the capital illustrates to me all that's wrong with this country. A sweeping generalisation maybe, but I'd be happy never to see the place again. Unfortunately I have to be there next week as so many things are concentrated there that there's no option but to go there.
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zyph

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptyFri May 23, 2014 5:36 pm

Todays headline in the Daily Express.

MIGRATION IS OUT OF CONTROL.....what a pity that didn't come out yesterday before people voted.

A surge of 27% arriving from the EU.....a total of according to official figures 201,000 people last year.

Net immigration is running at more than twice Mr Cameron's target of cutting it to the 'tens of thousands'.

Remember Cameron said last year that UKIP were a bunch of.....'fruitcakes,loonies and closet racists'
and Farage is called the scaremonger.

Who seems to have what is happening with immigration right Cameron or Farage ???
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hairy j

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptyFri May 23, 2014 7:35 pm

UKIP took three seats in Plymouth. Ham, Honicknowle and Moor View (Estover-ish). Interesting that UKIP took a smaller share of the votes in the student/shared housing areas. My ward Cllr is still a Labour one thankfully.
I'd expect the bandwagon and momentum to grind to a halt. Hopefully, the media will find another curiosity to follow in the next year or so.
I'm not sure what UKIP can bring to local politics - their one policy seems global rather than local.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptyFri May 23, 2014 8:29 pm

Looking at the numbers of votes cast in Plymouth UKIP was unlucky to win only 3 seats.

It could, arguably, now claim to be the only party capable of winning every seat on the council.

And winning that seat in Ham must have had Tudor's arse making buttons - and that's no bad thing.
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hairy j

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptyFri May 23, 2014 9:09 pm

To control a council, they'd have to have sustained support over many years. I can't see that. One of their elected councillors (not sure where) has allegedly already left the party and gone independent.
Also, a bloke called Francis Drake was elected under the UKIP flag. LOL

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pepsipete

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptyFri May 23, 2014 10:05 pm

Can't understand why the Lib Dems who control a number of councils and have more councillors then UKIP are labeled failures whilst UKIP who control no councils and number less councillors are hailed a run away success.
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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptyFri May 23, 2014 11:01 pm

Because the lib dems are getting less support, year on year it's a trend. Nigel Farage though, Whadda guy! Drinks and smokes and scares the shite out of middle England, I'm loving it. Cameron is all of a sudden more worried about all the things we are worried about than we are. What a load of wankers, ATD could put a better government together than any of these buffoons.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptyFri May 23, 2014 11:33 pm

Here's the bare stats for last night so far

Labour - 2047 seats (up 328), 80 councils (up 5)
Conservative - 1333 seats (down 171), 40 councils (down 12)
Lib Dem - 409 (down 244), 5 councils (down 1)
UKIP - 163 (up 128), 0 councils
Green - 35 (up 14), 0 councils

Labour now has more serving councillors in total than any other party.

These results are being hailed as a triumph for UKIP and yet Labour gained twice as many seats...

It's all very strange.

Still whoever you support or why here's an interesting analysis that strikes me as very even-handed.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

(Charlie in particular might find it interesting given his comments earlier.)

Nobody seems to know anything anymore!
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Charlie Wood

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptySat May 24, 2014 7:12 am

Hmm, my first thought on seeing that link Franny, was, oh no, not the Guardian  Smile , but the article articulates the thoughts I was trying to express without having to expound too much. I do find it interesting that Labour is losing it's absolute core raison d'etre of the "working class" in the old industrial areas, whilst the young and aspiring, who in the past might have been fertile Tory territory seem attracted to the Labour message, I kind of think it's socially acceptable amongst their peers to present a caring face but a lot of London behaviour strikes me as containing a deep well of selfishness more aligned to the Maggie era. I can see my history in that attitude, I've always described myself as a lifelong socialist but know I've always been happier looking after number one for many years.

I'm really not trying to persuade anybody with an argument, merely presenting my feelings. My kids, in their 30's, consider me an absolute dinosaur and are more than happy with the country they've grown up in and I fully understand and respect that, although my lad is in Oz for a year seeing if that's a better place to settle  Very Happy . I gave my reasons for voting UKIP previously, I don't imagine I'll vote for them in the GE, but the main players will have to REALLY up their game to get me onside.

As an aside, the reason I'm going to London next week is to submit our applications to the South African High Commission for temporary 4 year residency permits for their country, which means we can stay longer than the 90 day tourist visa allows, we have no intention of migrating there. To satisfy that requirement apart from medical, radiological and police clearance certificates and a plethora of other paperwork we both have to prove separate access to £60000 each of funds to support ourselves for that 4 year period. We also each have to lodge a £600 deposit as a repatriation bond even though we always have return tickets. My perception (EU aside) is that although things are being tightened dramatically, it's never been that difficult to get into this country.

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Charlie Wood

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptySat May 24, 2014 7:23 am

PS I think it's a given that Scotland will be off now ASAP.
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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptySat May 24, 2014 8:34 am

So UKIP actually made massive gains although they failed to take a whole council, so the fox is in the Wesrminster hen house Franny, where's your gun?
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zyph

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptySat May 24, 2014 10:19 am

Labour only did well because UKIP took votes away from the Tories and the Lib/Dems....not because they had anything new to offer.

UKIP might have no council control as yet....just remember they have only just come on the local council scene....so really starting from scratch.
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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptySat May 24, 2014 11:07 am

Think I read they came 2nd in twelve out of nineteen seats contested in Plymouth so pretty good for a new kid on the block.
I suspect if those immigration figures had been published a day earlier it would have been quite different.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptySat May 24, 2014 11:54 am

zyph wrote:
Todays headline in the Daily Express.

MIGRATION IS OUT OF CONTROL.....what a pity that didn't come out yesterday before people voted.

A surge of 27% arriving from the EU.....a total of according to official figures 201,000 people last year.

Net immigration is running at more than twice Mr Cameron's target of cutting it to the 'tens of thousands'.

Remember Cameron said last year that UKIP were a bunch of.....'fruitcakes,loonies and closet racists'
and Farage is called the scaremonger.

Who seems to have what is happening with immigration right Cameron or Farage ???

Neither of them.

We have a long-standing agreement with Ireland that any Irishman who wants to come to the UK can. All of them are entitled to but not once in hundreds of years has every single Irishman who could come decided to do so. This is essentially the same as freedom of movement within the EU. They could all come but they all won't. Farage does himself no favours when he twats on about 500m Europeans pouring across or borders. It is just nonsense.

Let people come. There is nothing to be afraid of. They don't come here to scam benefits and they don't come here just to get NHS treatment. These are simple, ugly, divisive and paranoid lies designed to scare people and they are very successful in doing so. Hell! Lots of people even thoroughly, genuinely, unbelievably, stupidly think it is true!

For the best part they come here to work in our NHS and they do menial jobs in care homes amongst many other things. They are young, vibrant, hard-working, educated (often multi-lingual) and often skilled (both of the latter paid for at another country's expense) and they offer a huge net contribution to the culture and the economy but instead of which we get anecdotal evidence (which is not evidence at all) about "a bloke down the pub says..." or "it says in the paper that..." and an exceptional example of some regrettable incident immediately becomes a widely believed instance of general truth. It's just crap.

This country has an ageing population, there are too many old people and too few young people for the economy to function in the way we have known it to in the past. We need immigration. Our country wil collapse without immigration.

There's nothing at all to be afraid of.

There is no problem.

Besides if they can't come here why should we be allowed to go there?

How many Brits live overseas? Should we be compelling Charlie to leave South Africa, Tring to leave Cyprus or Rickler to leave the USA? Of course not.

Let them come if they want to.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptySat May 24, 2014 12:34 pm

Matthew Parris (presumably writing in The Times):

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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptySat May 24, 2014 12:35 pm

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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptySat May 24, 2014 12:39 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptySat May 24, 2014 1:24 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
zyph wrote:
Todays headline in the Daily Express.

MIGRATION IS OUT OF CONTROL.....what a pity that didn't come out yesterday before people voted.

A surge of 27% arriving from the EU.....a total of according to official figures 201,000 people last year.

Net immigration is running at more than twice Mr Cameron's target of cutting it to the 'tens of thousands'.

Remember Cameron said last year that UKIP were a bunch of.....'fruitcakes,loonies and closet racists'
and Farage is called the scaremonger.

Who seems to have what is happening with immigration right Cameron or Farage ???

Neither of them.

We have a long-standing agreement with Ireland that any Irishman who wants to come to the UK can. All of them are entitled to but not once in hundreds of years has every single Irishman who could come decided to do so. This is essentially the same as freedom of movement within the EU. They could all come but they all won't. Farage does himself no favours when he twats on about 500m Europeans pouring across or borders. It is just nonsense.

Let people come. There is nothing to be afraid of. They don't come here to scam benefits and they don't come here just to get NHS treatment. These are simple, ugly, divisive and paranoid lies designed to scare people and they are very successful in doing so. Hell! Lots of people even thoroughly, genuinely, unbelievably, stupidly think it is true!

For the best part they come here to work in our NHS and they do menial jobs in care homes amongst many other things. They are young, vibrant, hard-working, educated (often multi-lingual) and often skilled (both of the latter paid for at another country's expense) and they offer a huge net contribution to the culture and the economy but instead of which we get anecdotal evidence (which is not evidence at all) about "a bloke down the pub says..." or "it says in the paper that..." and an exceptional example of some regrettable incident immediately becomes a widely believed instance of general truth. It's just crap.

This country has an ageing population, there are too many old people and too few young people for the economy to function in the way we have known it to in the past. We need immigration. Our country wil collapse without immigration.

There's nothing at all to be afraid of.

There is no problem.

Besides if they can't come here why should we be allowed to go there?

How many Brits live overseas? Should we be compelling Charlie to leave South Africa, Tring to leave Cyprus or Rickler to leave the USA? Of course not.

Let them come if they want to.

Right let me try one more time to get through your indignant exterior Franny,
My boy is a plumber, he has worked for next to feck all for four years to get his apprenticeship and now earns about £12.50/hr subbing to PCH. Last year they awarded half of the work to a Roanian firm who are paying their plumbers the minimum wage. If they were paying them the same as my boy and they won the contract because their standards were higher I couldn't argue but they are not. They are paying probably no tax whatsoever on their minimum wage so not only are they driving down the price of work locally but not benefiting the nation by paying tax whereas someone earning £12.50/hr is. What would you have said if we started to bring Romanian teachers in and expecting teachers to work for menial wages? Your argument is a very blinkered one that is trying to portray someone like me as a racist which is hugely feckin insulting, you're all right pull your ladder up FFS! The current European immigration policy is welcomed so that the wealthy can get all their work done for feck all. Simple as that.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptySat May 24, 2014 1:36 pm

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter that the min wage plumbers are Romanian. That bit is irrelevant. What matters is that an unscrupulous employer is gaining contracts by exploiting his workforce. If it was Plymothian/Cornish/Devonian/Cockney/Scouse/Geordie plumbers earning min wage your boy would still be too expensive at £12.50/hour.

This point never seems to be understood and it is why accusations of racism can never be far away (not that I have accused anybody anywhere, and definitely not you, of being racist).
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Lord Tisdale

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptySat May 24, 2014 2:24 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
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Oh dear, I fancy a look for old times sake and ol' Franny is still posting out of his rectal.

Them two elections have feck all to do with each other, this is the same as the MSM quoting PNS figures of 17% and claiming that has some significance, clueless fecks leading the blind.

Good to see the Kip making gains in Jannerland, particularly good to see the fook'tard Labour Leader making a tw@ of himself on national television, must be related to Newell to be that involved yet still be that wrong.

Nigey is god, he is kicking a up a shitstorm that will change the shape of UK politics, whether that is for better or for worse I have no idea, but we got and we we have had for all of my life simply ain't fit for purpose. Lying, cheating, thieving, duplicitous bastards run the world and it might be necessary to crash the thing in order to get any real change.

Those dorks who think he is a coward for not standing in Newark are just blowing out their collective arse, he will stand in Kent because that is where he is from, me, I would be soooooo happy if he were to come over the water to take Thurrock, Baz or Castle Point, he would absolutely piss home, I would go knock on every door myself just to feck orf the lefty, neo liberal, wank stains that have forked up this country.
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Lord Tisdale

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptySat May 24, 2014 2:29 pm

Iggy wrote:
Your argument is a very blinkered one that is trying to portray someone like me as a racist which is hugely feckin insulting,

You know what they say Iggster.

"What goes around comes around".
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Charlie Wood

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptySat May 24, 2014 3:15 pm

With ref to previous, even The Torygraph (Charlie Moore) seems to be saying much the same as the Granuaid...shock horror!!

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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptySat May 24, 2014 3:17 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
You're missing the point. It doesn't matter that the min wage plumbers are Romanian. That bit is irrelevant. What matters is that an unscrupulous employer is gaining contracts by exploiting his workforce. If it was Plymothian/Cornish/Devonian/Cockney/Scouse/Geordie plumbers earning min wage your boy would still be too expensive at £12.50/hour.

This point never seems to be understood and it is why accusations of racism can never be far away (not that I have accused anybody anywhere, and definitely not you, of being racist).

Your point is a dubious one Franny, whilst you are right up to a point the fact remains that the plumbers are Romanian. Our bosses are allowed to exploit our workers by bringing in other workers from a pretty well third world nation. If the government would protect the workers of this country from being exploited by having a min. wage for skilled workers and not just for teachers, police, ect. (and not forgetting GPs who whether Romanian, Russian or from Rutland will still earn £100k a year plus) then there would be no problem. The problem is caused by the government and their immigration policy, period. They could easily set minimum wage for skilled workers why don't they?
We have to protect the living standards of bank bosses, managing directors of big business, profits for shareholders of utility companies but feck you if you happen to be one of the people that keep roofs over peoples heads or keep them warm and dry. I wonder why UKIP get the support that they do? Go figure.  Rant 
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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptySat May 24, 2014 3:20 pm

Lord Tisdale wrote:
Iggy wrote:
Your argument is a very blinkered one that is trying to portray someone like me as a racist which is hugely feckin insulting,

You know what they say Iggster.

"What goes around comes around".

Welcome back Tiddles!  cheers  sorry but I missed the point where I accused others of being racist? When was that then?
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PostSubject: Re: Nigel Farage   Nigel Farage - Page 9 EmptySat May 24, 2014 4:28 pm

Can't speak for the Romanians, but through work I have lots of dealing with Poles who've taken up residency here. Many of them put next to fuckall back in to our economy as the amounts they wire back home is staggering. That's their right of course, but is it good for Britain?
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