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Flat_Track_Bully

Flat_Track_Bully

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PostSubject: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyTue Aug 20, 2013 11:06 pm


Don't know how many of you have been following the fall out from the leaks about the NSA, and how the UK government have been treating those who have been reporting the story, but it seems increasingly clear to me that we are living in a surveillance state. Furthermore the government is more interested in cracking down on journalists who wish to question what they do than they are at having an open debate about the level of surveillance. Of course many have been warning about this sort of behaviour for years, but they were always dismissed as fanatics, or 'human rights nuts'.


I hesitate to draw parallels with history, but I wonder how those now running the surveillance state – and their appeasers – would have behaved under the totalitarian regimes of the 20th century. We hear today so many phrases we have heard before. The innocent have nothing to fear. Our critics merely comfort the enemy. You cannot be too safe. Loyalty is all. As one official said in wielding his legal stick over the Guardian: "You have had your debate. There's no need to write any more." Yes, there bloody well is.


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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyWed Aug 21, 2013 7:58 am

Shocking stuff. I used to be an advocate of "If you haven't done anything wrong then there's nothing for you to worry about" but clearly the government or more accurately the US government, will decide who has done wrong thank you very much!

To hold him for 9 hours on anti-terrorism rules was pathetic and shows how Britain is prepared to let the yanks dictate to us in our own backyard.
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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyWed Aug 21, 2013 8:09 am


The public should be very concerned regarding the basic free values that this country is rapidly losing and this latest abuse of law only confirms that our fundamental freedoms are under attack.

Those responsible for these leaks have leaked the information to tells us that our freedoms are being eroded and their treatment and arrest only confirm that what they are telling us is correct.
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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyWed Aug 21, 2013 8:38 am

Is it time for a revolution?
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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyWed Aug 21, 2013 8:43 am


You know things are not right when you pay your taxes and get burgled and the police give you a number, but if something is pinched from Topshop who don't pay taxes, the police actually turn up.
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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyWed Aug 21, 2013 9:05 am

I'm just waiting for the first "If you've got nothing to hide .........." comment.
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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyWed Aug 21, 2013 9:27 am


Don't even get me started on how easily the media are corrupted.....herald...cough
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Charlie Wood

Charlie Wood

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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyWed Aug 21, 2013 9:42 am

Nelson Mandela, and I make no apology for giving him the full credit, presided over the writing of a completely new constitution for the Republic of South Africa in 1994. It would have been a document any country and it's people would have been proud of. Freedom of the press was, of course, a central tenet of the document. Unfortunately it was claused such that a 66% majority in Parliament could amend it. Last year the ANC's huge majority allowed them to pass The Protection of State Information Bill, more accurately described as The Protection of State Corruption Bill, journos (or anybody else) can now be chucked in jail for exposing any Government malfeasance, whether it's true or not.

We should never be blasé about our rights and freedoms.
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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyWed Aug 21, 2013 10:00 am


We seem to have similar laws in this country Charlie, they call it The Prevention of Terrorism Act.
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Peggy

Peggy

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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyWed Aug 21, 2013 10:39 am

knecht wrote:
I'm just waiting for the first "If you've got nothing to hide .........." comment.
Me too. Those of us who've always pointed out that it all depends on who defines 'something to hide' are getting closer to being able to say 'Told you so'.

Some of the blasé reactions to the fact that it was the partner of the journalist - not the journalist himself - who was held and interrogated only confirm my suspicion that we've all been mugged by the neoliberal establishment. To the extent that we'll swallow pretty much anything. Reminds me of my dad banging on about listening to our 'elders and betters'.
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Mock Cuncher

Mock Cuncher

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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyWed Aug 21, 2013 9:13 pm

They can take my life, but they cannot take my Freederm.
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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyWed Aug 21, 2013 10:57 pm

Can't remember who said it on pasoti (there are some good people there and whoever it was this is one of the goodies) wrote someting like "I have nothing to hide up my ass but I woul]dn't want anyone to look upo rhere to cjeck." Or something far more coherent than that
t
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Flat_Track_Bully

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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyWed Aug 21, 2013 11:30 pm

My worry is that we have recently seen (in light of the financial crisis) a concerted effort to concentrate wealth and power more than ever into the hands of a small group of people. Add in the increasing threats to our environment as a result of government policies designed mainly to further enrich the ruling class, and the increased scarcity of resources, and you have a situation where those in power are probably growing more aware of the need to 'protect themselves' from the masses. I can't help think that this obsession with security is part of a plan to improve the ability of those in power to crack down on dissenters when things get to the stage where even the largely docile masses start realising that they are being royally screwed over by the ruling classes. This draconian response to the NSA leaks are likely to be just the tip of the iceberg compared to what might be coming sometime down the line.
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Peggy

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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyThu Aug 22, 2013 9:34 am

Spot on, FTB - my thoughts exactly.

There's a Bill coming up in Parliament soon which will put severe restrictions on campaign groups like Hope Not Hate: have a look at this briefing on how it could affect their ability to counteract the lies of groups like the BNP.

Democracy my arse.
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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyThu Aug 22, 2013 9:41 am


I think we're experiencing one of the biggest attacks on civil rights, freedom & democracy as well as a gradual shift in wealth and power that this country has known in modern times. There seems to be no political divide to rectify the issues, no unions that are not either corrupted or to weak to have any influence and little desire to resist.
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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyThu Aug 22, 2013 10:02 am

Peggy * wrote:
Spot on, FTB - my thoughts exactly.

There's a Bill coming up in Parliament soon which will put severe restrictions on campaign groups like Hope Not Hate: have a look at this briefing on how it could affect their ability to counteract the lies of groups like the BNP.

Democracy my arse.
I couldn't believe that when I got the newsletter from Hope not Hate, I had to read it again to get my head around it. A non political party who are seeking to influence public opinion would be restricted to spending only £390,000 throughout Britain in the 12 months leading up to an election, while a political party that an organisation like Hope not Hate are allowed to spend £18.96 million giving their side of the story scratch 

The amount Hope not Hate are allowed to spend also includes staff costs, but the political party's costs don't include staff costs.

If it is passed it will mean campaign groups will literally be drowned out every time they try to let the public know about things the political party's would rather not be made public.

Of course it's not the groups like the BNP, EDL and other fascist groups that this bill is intended to help, but the BIG political party's who actually get elected. The Tory's don't want Joe Public knowing the real facts about what they are up to.

You can join the Hope not Hate campaign here to add your support to the opposition to this bill:

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/gagging-hope-not-hate/
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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyThu Aug 22, 2013 10:25 am

GOB wrote:

I think we're experiencing one of the biggest attacks on civil rights, freedom & democracy as well as a gradual shift in wealth and power that this country has known in modern times. There seems to be no political divide to rectify the issues, no unions that are not either corrupted or to weak to have any influence and little desire to resist.


The route to power........Eton.....Oxford.....and of course the Bullingdon Club (silver spooned yobs.....(don't worry daddy will pay the bill).

....and who is filling the political void.......at the moment UKIP in this country.

BUT.....sometimes the void can become sinister, filled for instance as in Germany by the NAZI party.

Please I am not comparing UKIP to that horror and I could possibly vote for them next time....they do say what people want to hear.

The Tories must love Ed Miliband and his Union Puppeteers...what a disaster that his brother didn't win the vote.....result no opposition.

The Liberals....just making up the numbers.....whilst Cameron takes his FOURTH holiday this year.
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Lord Tisdale

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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyThu Aug 22, 2013 12:40 pm

Greenjock wrote:

There's a Bill coming up in Parliament soon which will put severe restrictions on campaign groups like Hope Not Hate: have a look at this briefing on how it could affect their ability to counteract the lies of groups like the BNP.
Oh good grief Jock, HnH are such a bunch of anal Trots and are just the internet wing of Unison. They recently ran a series of meetings all over the country to discuss the 'rightwing' threat, they drew an average of five punters and a dachshund called Colin. Their entire raison D is to counter anyone that doesn't toe the big union, big public sector line, they luxuriate in the lies of Poo Labour while slagging off the BNP, EDL, UKIP and the like who appear to be the only ones telling the truth on issues like immigration, the economy and the EU, the biggest black hole for your taxes ever invented by the recipients of said largesse.

And if we want to get on to Fascism, it isn't the BNP who are out there trying to stop HnH from holding a meeting or enjoying their right to an opinion under the weak ass freedom of speech laws we have in this country, it's HnH and their mates in the UAF and AFN who are mobbed up and out there to stop others from voicing their view.

Fascism is about the suppression of rights.
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Lord Tisdale

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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyThu Aug 22, 2013 12:46 pm

ZYPH wrote:


The Tories must love Ed Miliband and his Union Puppeteers...what a disaster that his brother didn't win the vote.....result no opposition.
Er, the latest polls show Millipede on 38% while the Tories trail on 28% with UKIP consistently nicking more and more of their base, that equates to a pretty large PooLab majority if reflected in votes come May'15.

Camoron is fooked, the only way back for the Tories is to dump him and get a right winger in to supply a few decent crosses to stop the bleeding to Nigey.
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Peggy

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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyThu Aug 22, 2013 12:54 pm

Now why would anybody pay any attention to somebody who thinks I'm Jock?
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Lord Tisdale

Lord Tisdale

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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyThu Aug 22, 2013 1:55 pm

Peggy wrote:
Now why would anybody pay any attention to somebody who thinks I'm Jock?
Duh!

I expect that kind of one eyed drivel from some but the quote was only there to highlight what it was Jock was agreeing with, I had never taken him to be a weak minded, lefty, pinko in the past.
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Dougie

Dougie

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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyThu Aug 22, 2013 2:13 pm

Goodness only knows why someone would take up snooping as a career
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Peggy

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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyThu Aug 22, 2013 2:41 pm

All part of the same thing, I reckon.

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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyThu Aug 22, 2013 3:10 pm

I am a weak minded lefty pinko and proud of it LT.

I'm off to join the protest about Fracking tomorrow. I believe it should be banned along with frigging, flipping, effing, fecking and any other word used as a diluted swear word.

I do like eating lentils, wearing sandals and having no television though.
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PostSubject: Re: Surveillance State   Surveillance State EmptyThu Aug 22, 2013 3:38 pm

Funnily enough I am reading a book at the mo. that has the FBI snooping on everybody that they want to with a secret piece in every micro chip that is made in South Korea as a result of a deal to side with them against the North, five years ago when it was written it would have been considered far fetched, now it could be done so easily. We need protecting against Internet surveillance soon, if the authorities were going through every bodies post and opening letters there would be hell to pay, but they are doing what they like with computer traffic.
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