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Rickler

Rickler

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Location : Inside the mind...

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PostSubject: Re: The Chairman's Chat   The Chairman's Chat - Page 2 EmptySun Feb 14, 2021 7:04 pm

Grovehill wrote:
Rickler wrote:
Grovehill wrote:
Earwegoagain wrote:
TJOA wrote:
Freathy wrote:
Is Hallett capable of delivering more than just a L2/L1 yo yo club?  We can but hope.

I believe Hallett is capable of getting us to the championship in a few years.
I don't think he'll be capable of keeping us there.

I happen to agree with you IMO a sustainable club with no cash injections from the Chairman could get us to the CCC but I don't think crowds of <20,000 can compete at that level now a days. Anyway you have to get there first.


One way of being sustainable at CCC level is to have a "production line" of good players coming through from the Academy. PAFC are a long way from that.

As for all the talk about "hospitality" revenue being the golden egg, that's just what it is--talk.

When Kagami and Co were suggesting a similar thing 10? years ago, I asked if anyone could show where a football Club got a serious percentage  of their profit from non-football sources. I didn't get an answer then, and I wont now.  

I don't remember Kagami suggesting anything at all. I thought he was a mute? Did he ever actually say anything regarding Argyle?  Perhaps you can point to Kagami's words, Grovey?

As for a "serious percentage" of profit from non-football sources?  Is an average of 25% from 'commercial activities' for Championship clubs not "serious" enough for you?

Posts would have been on that other site. By Kagami & Co I was referring to the full Board at the time. They were talking about a Hotel, Student accommodation, retail outlets etc etc. Kagami never even saw the team play, he was solely interested in property development.

Seeing as hardly any Championship Clubs make a profit (as SH pointed out in one of his chats) please tell us which ones are making a decent profit from non football related "hospitality"

So you've changed your mind.. By "Kagami" you actually meant everybody on the board but Kagami. Quite a u- turn.

As for a "profit" from football related "hospitality" or non football activities.. I once again suggest that 25% of 'revenue' from non playing sources is a "serious" amount of income for the average championship side and without it.. Almost all would go bust.

The fact that nobody answered this point for you before, just suggests you are asking the wrong people?
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Grovehill



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Join date : 2012-01-24

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PostSubject: Re: The Chairman's Chat   The Chairman's Chat - Page 2 EmptySun Feb 14, 2021 8:15 pm

So you can't name a Club that's making a decent profit (rather than just turnover) on hospitality?

Most tier 2 clubs are as SH pointed out, technically insolvent anyway and rely on funds from benevolent owners.

As for your other comments, I suggest you read my post again.
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Rickler

Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: The Chairman's Chat   The Chairman's Chat - Page 2 EmptyMon Feb 15, 2021 1:49 am

Grovehill wrote:
So you can't name a Club that's making a decent profit (rather than just turnover) on hospitality?

Most tier 2 clubs are as SH pointed out, technically insolvent anyway and rely on funds from benevolent owners.

As for your other comments, I suggest you read my post again.


I've read your post. You have point to make about my other comments, make it.

As for Hospitality.. I would think every club makes a profit on 'Hospitality', otherwise they wouldn't do it would they?

The reason they do it is to supplement other income, matchday, TV etc. It goes into one pot. ...and like I keep on saying... and you keep ignoring.. 'Hospitality' income (profit) makes up about 25% of the total income a Championship club makes. I say that is a "serious" amount. How many Championship clubs do you think could survive in that division - or at all - when losing 25% of their income?


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Earwegoagain

Earwegoagain

Posts : 8523
Join date : 2017-09-09

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PostSubject: Re: The Chairman's Chat   The Chairman's Chat - Page 2 EmptyMon Feb 15, 2021 8:29 am

Just been perusing some CCC turnover figures they were a bit out of date at 2014/15 but your CCC turnover back then amounted to between £10m and £40m. Even £2.5m is a hell of a lot of prawn sandwiches I find it hard to believe anybody is taking £10m in hospitality?
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Graiser

Graiser

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Join date : 2020-03-25

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PostSubject: Re: The Chairman's Chat   The Chairman's Chat - Page 2 EmptyMon Feb 15, 2021 11:45 am

Recent records  for Exeter Chiefs, circa 2018 stated, non match day income accounted for 10% of turnover and without it they would lose money every season.
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PlymptonPilgrim
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PlymptonPilgrim

Posts : 2047
Join date : 2011-08-21
Location : Plympton and Sucina

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PostSubject: Re: The Chairman's Chat   The Chairman's Chat - Page 2 EmptyMon Feb 15, 2021 12:18 pm

Grovehill wrote:
Earwegoagain wrote:
TJOA wrote:
Freathy wrote:
Is Hallett capable of delivering more than just a L2/L1 yo yo club?  We can but hope.

I believe Hallett is capable of getting us to the championship in a few years.
I don't think he'll be capable of keeping us there.

I happen to agree with you IMO a sustainable club with no cash injections from the Chairman could get us to the CCC but I don't think crowds of <20,000 can compete at that level now a days. Anyway you have to get there first.


One way of being sustainable at CCC level is to have a "production line" of good players coming through from the Academy. PAFC are a long way from that.

As for all the talk about "hospitality" revenue being the golden egg, that's just what it is--talk.

When Kagami and Co were suggesting a similar thing 10? years ago, I asked if anyone could show where a football Club got a serious percentage  of their profit from non-football sources. I didn't get an answer then, and I wont now.  

A short while ago you were complaining about Argyle being a selling club, and now you complain about having no players coming through to sell.

Not really consistent in your anti club comments, are you?

Just anti for the sake of it perhaps.
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Grovehill



Posts : 1531
Join date : 2012-01-24

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PostSubject: Re: The Chairman's Chat   The Chairman's Chat - Page 2 EmptyMon Feb 15, 2021 2:00 pm

Rickler, you can't just say that hospitality makes 25% of a Tier 2 club's income or profit without some evidence to back it up.

Going by Earwig's figures to even make £1 million (2.5%) a year they would be doing more business than most of the Hotels in the Plymouth area.

Exeter Chiefs have a better location and were first in the field but while they are making 10% of their turnover on hospitality, they have a lot lower turnover than even a L2 club.

I'd love Argyle to make millions on hospitality, but it's not going to happen
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Grovehill



Posts : 1531
Join date : 2012-01-24

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PostSubject: Re: The Chairman's Chat   The Chairman's Chat - Page 2 EmptyMon Feb 15, 2021 2:02 pm

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:
Grovehill wrote:
Earwegoagain wrote:
TJOA wrote:
Freathy wrote:
Is Hallett capable of delivering more than just a L2/L1 yo yo club?  We can but hope.

I believe Hallett is capable of getting us to the championship in a few years.
I don't think he'll be capable of keeping us there.

I happen to agree with you IMO a sustainable club with no cash injections from the Chairman could get us to the CCC but I don't think crowds of <20,000 can compete at that level now a days. Anyway you have to get there first.


One way of being sustainable at CCC level is to have a "production line" of good players coming through from the Academy. PAFC are a long way from that.

As for all the talk about "hospitality" revenue being the golden egg, that's just what it is--talk.

When Kagami and Co were suggesting a similar thing 10? years ago, I asked if anyone could show where a football Club got a serious percentage  of their profit from non-football sources. I didn't get an answer then, and I wont now.  

A short while ago you were complaining about Argyle being a selling club, and now you complain about having no players coming through to sell.

Not really consistent in your anti club comments, are you?

Just anti for the sake of it perhaps.

Not anti at all. Everyone except Man City is a selling Club, I just wish Argyle had the players coming through that could fund the Club-Like ECFC.
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Angry

Angry

Posts : 14941
Join date : 2013-08-16
Age : 36

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PostSubject: Re: The Chairman's Chat   The Chairman's Chat - Page 2 EmptyMon Feb 15, 2021 3:04 pm

Grovehill wrote:
PlymptonPilgrim wrote:
Grovehill wrote:
Earwegoagain wrote:
TJOA wrote:
Freathy wrote:
Is Hallett capable of delivering more than just a L2/L1 yo yo club?  We can but hope.

I believe Hallett is capable of getting us to the championship in a few years.
I don't think he'll be capable of keeping us there.

I happen to agree with you IMO a sustainable club with no cash injections from the Chairman could get us to the CCC but I don't think crowds of <20,000 can compete at that level now a days. Anyway you have to get there first.


One way of being sustainable at CCC level is to have a "production line" of good players coming through from the Academy. PAFC are a long way from that.

As for all the talk about "hospitality" revenue being the golden egg, that's just what it is--talk.

When Kagami and Co were suggesting a similar thing 10? years ago, I asked if anyone could show where a football Club got a serious percentage  of their profit from non-football sources. I didn't get an answer then, and I wont now.  

A short while ago you were complaining about Argyle being a selling club, and now you complain about having no players coming through to sell.

Not really consistent in your anti club comments, are you?

Just anti for the sake of it perhaps.

Not anti at all. Everyone except Man City is a selling Club, I just wish Argyle had the players coming through that could fund the Club-Like ECFC.

thats the basis of exeter's existence surviving year by year and hoping they can sell a young player to fund the next years circle.
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Czarcasm

Czarcasm

Posts : 9374
Join date : 2011-10-23

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PostSubject: Re: The Chairman's Chat   The Chairman's Chat - Page 2 EmptyMon Feb 15, 2021 3:06 pm

Grovey, if you’ve ever actually digested a lot of the communication from Hallett you’d realise that infrastructure is  being put in place at the Academy to do just that. But young kids don’t turn into sellable assets overnight. I’d say in 5 6 or 7 years we may see tangible fruits of the labour being undertaken right now. Good news for you Grovey as that provides you with plenty of time to carry on whinging about our youth set up.
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Grovehill



Posts : 1531
Join date : 2012-01-24

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PostSubject: Re: The Chairman's Chat   The Chairman's Chat - Page 2 EmptyMon Feb 15, 2021 3:23 pm

Czarcasm wrote:
Grovey, if you’ve ever actually digested a lot of the communication from Hallett you’d realise that infrastructure is  being put in place at the Academy to do just that. But young kids don’t turn into sellable assets overnight. I’d say in 5 6 or 7 years we may see tangible fruits of the labour being undertaken right now. Good news for you Grovey as that provides you with plenty of time to carry on whinging about our youth set up.


I've seen Argyle turn round from no Youth set up to speak of to being best in the region in 3 or 4 years in the seventies.

Waiters recruited youngsters from other League Clubs as well as youth and non League

I can remember when Spurs and Arsenal's first team keepers were products of the PAFC youth system.

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Rickler

Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: The Chairman's Chat   The Chairman's Chat - Page 2 EmptyTue Feb 16, 2021 2:59 am

Grovehill wrote:
Rickler, you can't just say that hospitality makes 25% of a Tier 2 club's income or profit without some evidence to back it up.

Going by Earwig's figures to even make £1 million (2.5%) a year they would be doing more business than most of the Hotels in the Plymouth area.

Exeter Chiefs have a better location and were first in the field but while they are making 10% of their turnover on hospitality, they have a lot lower turnover than even a L2 club.

I'd love Argyle to make millions on hospitality, but it's not going to happen

I originally didn't just say 'hospitality', because you didn't originally only ask about hospitality.  You asked 'if anyone could show where a football Club got a serious percentage of their profit from non-football sources. as you didn't get an answer then, and you wouldn't now'.  

In reply to you, I said this:

Rickler wrote:

As for a "profit" from football related "hospitality" or non football activities..  I once again suggest that 25% of 'revenue' from non playing sources is a "serious" amount of income for the average championship side


..and as for backing it up:


The following information comes from p.24 of the Deloitte UK annual review of football finance 2020

Commercial revenue also accounted for a higher
percentage of Championship club’s total revenue
in 2018/19 at 25%, up from 23% in the prior
year,
driven by the three newly relegated clubs
averaging £10m of commercial revenue each.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


So there you go Grovey...   Backed up.  

The truth is out there!
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Earwegoagain

Earwegoagain

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Join date : 2017-09-09

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PostSubject: Re: The Chairman's Chat   The Chairman's Chat - Page 2 EmptyTue Feb 16, 2021 8:30 am

10m pa? They selling Craic as well as Beer? Commercial could mean anything other than selling food I suppose?
In fact on second thoughts commercial revenue would be advertising and sponsorship and not hospitality?


Last edited by Earwegoagain on Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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mouldyoldgoat
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mouldyoldgoat

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Location : Berkshire

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PostSubject: Re: The Chairman's Chat   The Chairman's Chat - Page 2 EmptyTue Feb 16, 2021 10:27 am

Selling replica shirts like home kit for 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc, away kit for 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc.

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Grovehill



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PostSubject: Re: The Chairman's Chat   The Chairman's Chat - Page 2 EmptyTue Feb 16, 2021 2:01 pm

Rickler wrote:
Grovehill wrote:
Rickler, you can't just say that hospitality makes 25% of a Tier 2 club's income or profit without some evidence to back it up.

Going by Earwig's figures to even make £1 million (2.5%) a year they would be doing more business than most of the Hotels in the Plymouth area.

Exeter Chiefs have a better location and were first in the field but while they are making 10% of their turnover on hospitality, they have a lot lower turnover than even a L2 club.

I'd love Argyle to make millions on hospitality, but it's not going to happen

I originally didn't just say 'hospitality', because you didn't originally only ask about hospitality.  You asked 'if anyone could show where a football Club got a serious percentage of their profit from non-football sources. as you didn't get an answer then, and you wouldn't now'.  

In reply to you, I said this:

Rickler wrote:

As for a "profit" from football related "hospitality" or non football activities..  I once again suggest that 25% of 'revenue' from non playing sources is a "serious" amount of income for the average championship side


..and as for backing it up:


The following information comes from p.24 of the Deloitte UK annual review of football finance 2020

Commercial revenue also accounted for a higher
percentage of Championship club’s total revenue
in 2018/19 at 25%, up from 23% in the prior
year,
driven by the three newly relegated clubs
averaging £10m of commercial revenue each.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


So there you go Grovey...   Backed up.  

The truth is out there!

The report cites three sources of income for FL Clubs. "Broadcasting" "Match day" and "commercial"

So commercial would include sponsorship deals, replica shirts, lottery etc. And as Transfer income is neither match day or broadcast related, it must be in the "commercial" pot.

Profit from these various revenue streams is not identified or allocated to any particular source. As the report pointed out the Tier 2 Clubs had a combined loss of over £380 million  so no one is making money out of anything, let alone by hosting a few Office parties.
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Rickler

Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: The Chairman's Chat   The Chairman's Chat - Page 2 EmptyTue Feb 16, 2021 5:38 pm

Grovehill wrote:
Rickler wrote:
Grovehill wrote:
Rickler, you can't just say that hospitality makes 25% of a Tier 2 club's income or profit without some evidence to back it up.

Going by Earwig's figures to even make £1 million (2.5%) a year they would be doing more business than most of the Hotels in the Plymouth area.

Exeter Chiefs have a better location and were first in the field but while they are making 10% of their turnover on hospitality, they have a lot lower turnover than even a L2 club.

I'd love Argyle to make millions on hospitality, but it's not going to happen

I originally didn't just say 'hospitality', because you didn't originally only ask about hospitality.  You asked 'if anyone could show where a football Club got a serious percentage of their profit from non-football sources. as you didn't get an answer then, and you wouldn't now'.  

In reply to you, I said this:

Rickler wrote:

As for a "profit" from football related "hospitality" or non football activities..  I once again suggest that 25% of 'revenue' from non playing sources is a "serious" amount of income for the average championship side


..and as for backing it up:


The following information comes from p.24 of the Deloitte UK annual review of football finance 2020

Commercial revenue also accounted for a higher
percentage of Championship club’s total revenue
in 2018/19 at 25%, up from 23% in the prior
year,
driven by the three newly relegated clubs
averaging £10m of commercial revenue each.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


So there you go Grovey...   Backed up.  

The truth is out there!

The report cites three sources of income for FL Clubs. "Broadcasting" "Match day" and "commercial"

So commercial would include sponsorship deals, replica shirts, lottery etc. And as Transfer income is neither match day or broadcast related, it must be in the "commercial" pot.

Profit from these various revenue streams is not identified or allocated to any particular source. As the report pointed out the Tier 2 Clubs had a combined loss of over £380 million  so no one is making money out of anything, let alone by hosting a few Office parties.

LOl... Even when confronted with the facts... You're in complete denial.

Typical. Quite frankly... There is no hope for you.

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Grovehill



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PostSubject: Re: The Chairman's Chat   The Chairman's Chat - Page 2 EmptyTue Feb 16, 2021 6:33 pm


As for all the talk about "hospitality" revenue being the golden egg, that's just what it is--talk.

When Kagami and Co were suggesting a similar thing 10? years ago, I asked if anyone could show where a football Club got a serious percentage  of their profit from non-football sources. I didn't get an answer then, and I wont now.  [/quote]


Still no answer
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Rickler

Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: The Chairman's Chat   The Chairman's Chat - Page 2 EmptyTue Feb 16, 2021 7:19 pm

Grovehill wrote:

As for all the talk about "hospitality" revenue being the golden egg, that's just what it is--talk.

When Kagami and Co were suggesting a similar thing 10? years ago, I asked if anyone could show where a football Club got a serious percentage  of their profit from non-football sources. I didn't get an answer then, and I wont now.

Still no answer

You got an answer about "Non-football" sources.  You choose to ignore it, because it proves you wrong.  Rather than accepting that and educating yourself, you just continue with your ignorance.

Like I said...  There is no hope for you.  You ignore the facts and refuse to accept reality.

It's stupidity beyond belief.
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