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Rickler

Rickler

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PostSubject: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptySun Apr 12, 2020 9:56 pm

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Smart Recruitment
Data Informing Transfer Policy


Daniel Cole

@Only1Argyle

DESPITE the coronavirus-enforced suspension of Argyle’s Sky Bet League Two promotion charge, work continues behind the scenes to realise Chairman Simon Hallett’s vision of becoming a sustainable Championship club in the near future.

Data-driven decision-making is a key element of the club’s proposed philosophy moving forward, and Director of Football Neil Dewsnip has played a big part in implementing statistics to inform the Pilgrims’ recruitment policy.

Having engaged with a number of data analysis firms over several months, the club has begun working with two companies to help shape tactical and transfer plans in the coming years.


“There’s a number of things going on at different levels. We have brought a new data analytics approach in-house,” said Dewsnip.

“We’re doing work with two companies; Opta provide us with a lot of team and individual data which we can track and identify possible Argyle players from, and, secondly, a little bit more specific, we work with a company called 21st Club. They help us with a model for identifying future target players. I don’t want to give too many secrets away, but that is moving along nicely.”

“They have got a massive database of players from not just Great Britain, but all over Europe. With that in mind, they can identify players for us that, under normal circumstances, we may not be aware of.”

Despite having only recently acquired support from Opta and 21st Club, Dewsnip says that Argyle have already identified a number of potential transfer targets.

“We have a few names already, based on our work so far,” said Dewsnip. “We had been watching one or two before the lockdown, and we will pick it all up again with other targets as and when we restart the season.”

With a freshly implemented philosophy, based around the attacking ideals of manager Ryan Lowe, the Greens have a clear style of play in mind when assessing potential recruits.

Access to key performance data allows club staff to better identify players that are suited to Lowe’s attacking brand of football – likely making them a better fit.

Dewsnip explains: “Our playing style is a big part of our model. We are looking at players who we believe will fit into our style of play – and that’s agreed between Ryan, myself, the Board and the coaching staff.

“I would like to think that the supporters have enjoyed the style we have played with this season and have been entertained. It’s a feel-good factor, and we want to keep identifying players who can do that – and keep doing it a little bit better.

“Our style of play is very much about high tempo, excitement, and goals. We intend to do that through being a possession-based team, and when we haven’t got the ball we want to get it back as quickly as we can. It’s a very simplistic overview of our style, of course, but it’s about entertainment.”

While data is already helping Lowe and his team identify potential targets, it can only paint part of a picture. For unquantifiable traits, like personality, traditional scouting still has its part to play.

“We have key performance indicators for each position. I won’t go into that in too much detail, but these indicators point us in a direction,” said Dewsnip. “But, we don’t sign players from the data – the data allows us to go and watch players. We need to know that they’re good characters, that they can be part of a South West environment, and that they’ll fit the style. There are so many factors which go into deciding whether to go for a player.”

Dewsnip hopes that the better use of data analytics can help the Pilgrims recruit more efficiently, giving Argyle an edge over competitors. However, he is also keen to point out that, the further you go up the EFL pyramid, the more prevalent the use of data becomes.

“I must stress that most clubs, especially ones at the levels this club aspires to get to, are heavily involved in data analytics already. We are at the start of a journey, really, and we’re developing our model.”

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PatDunne



Posts : 2173
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Age : 59

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptySun Apr 12, 2020 11:00 pm

“I must stress that most clubs, especially ones at the levels this club aspires to get to, are heavily involved in data analytics already. We are at the start of a journey, really, and we’re developing our model.”
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Earwegoagain

Earwegoagain

Posts : 6825
Join date : 2017-09-09

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyMon Apr 13, 2020 12:07 am

Data wank.
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RegGreen



Posts : 4092
Join date : 2015-07-08

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyMon Apr 13, 2020 3:14 pm

Earwegoagain wrote:
Data wank.
Absolute data wank if you don’t mind
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Grovehill



Posts : 1135
Join date : 2012-01-24

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyMon Apr 13, 2020 3:31 pm

Moneyball


The theory is you don't sign a 20 goal a season striker, you look at the data and sign a forward who, when he plays, the team scores more goals, i.e. don't sign Salah, sign Origi 'cos Liverpool have a higher scoring rate for the minutes Origi plays than for  Salah's time on the pitch.
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Rickler

Rickler

Posts : 6059
Join date : 2011-05-10
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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyMon Apr 13, 2020 6:28 pm

Good intelligent move by the club and another step forward.

Which is why I am not surprised by who is poo-pooing the idea.
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Earwegoagain

Earwegoagain

Posts : 6825
Join date : 2017-09-09

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyMon Apr 13, 2020 8:31 pm

It's all pretty dull corporate blather IMO. Hardly the makings of a twenty five page thread.
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mouldyoldgoat
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mouldyoldgoat

Posts : 11371
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Location : Berkshire

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyMon Apr 13, 2020 9:50 pm

We could try! Very Happy

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Graiser

Graiser

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Join date : 2020-03-25

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyMon Apr 13, 2020 10:40 pm

Progressive move by the club and to announce it during this difficult time sends out a positive message to the fans
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Earwegoagain

Earwegoagain

Posts : 6825
Join date : 2017-09-09

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyTue Apr 14, 2020 12:19 am

I'd be more impressed if they were planning to replace the defence,Add a blistering attacking midfielder and a proven twenty goal a seasn striker from a club at a higher level.
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RegGreen



Posts : 4092
Join date : 2015-07-08

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyTue Apr 14, 2020 12:38 am

Spin and bluster from sigh bet Lowe still signs his mates if his still here when we eventually kick a ball again lol
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Rickler

Rickler

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Join date : 2011-05-10
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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyTue Apr 14, 2020 6:06 pm

Earwegoagain wrote:
I'd be more impressed if they were planning to replace the defence,Add a blistering attacking midfielder and a proven twenty goal a seasn striker from a club at a higher level.

Obviously the notion that 'Data' might help the club achieve your wishes has gone completely over your head...

RegGreen wrote:
Spin and bluster from sigh bet Lowe still signs his mates if his still here when we eventually kick a ball again lol

...and you have obviously missed the fact that it's Neil Dewsnip giving the "spin and bluster" and not Simon Hallett.

Geez...  With fans like you two, what hope is there?
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Earwegoagain

Earwegoagain

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyTue Apr 14, 2020 7:34 pm

Data butters no Dewsnips.
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Tringreen

Tringreen

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyWed Apr 15, 2020 11:55 am

Becoming a sustainable championship side requires at least one of these two components.

1. Investment wealth via the club ownership to retain and add to the best staff.

2. A top flight history and resultant developed fanbase.

If a club doesn't have '2', it must have '1' as in the case of Bournemouth, they didn't need the inspiring stadium / gate receipts. With a latent fanbase, like we have,if they see that the owners have what it takes, they will turn up. If not, as with Srapes and co, they get bored with championship and drift away.We are not alone in this but we are the last of the big city clubs not to make a move.
My hope is that if SH can get us to the championship, he will either have enough money himself to finish the job, or be prepared to attract someone who does.
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Chemical Ali



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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyWed Apr 15, 2020 12:45 pm

The use of data has helped recruitment at a club like Brentford, who do have the advantage of being in London, but have been able to maintain Championship football despite not having the biggest crowds.

Barnsley have also been using this, and have the US Moneyball bloke on their board (Billy Beane).

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Grovehill



Posts : 1135
Join date : 2012-01-24

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyWed Apr 15, 2020 3:59 pm

Tringreen wrote:
Becoming a sustainable championship side requires at least one of these two components.

1. Investment wealth via the club ownership to retain and add to the best staff.

2. A top flight history and resultant developed fanbase.

If a club doesn't have '2', it must have '1' as in the case of Bournemouth, they didn't need the inspiring stadium / gate receipts. With a latent fanbase, like we have,if they see that the owners have what it takes, they will turn up. If not, as with Srapes and co, they get bored with championship and drift away.We are not alone in this but we are the last of the big city clubs not to make a move.
My hope is that if SH can get us to the championship, he will either have enough money himself to finish the job, or be prepared to attract someone who does.



What about

3. a decent recruitment policy aimed at young (teenager or even younger) players--certainly works for that team up the A38

But you wont have analytics on yougsters, just need to have a decent scouting system and contacts.

In Tony Waiter's day Argyle probably had a dozen players who progressed to the First Division.
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harvetheslayer

harvetheslayer

Posts : 5855
Join date : 2015-04-02
Age : 29
Location : Behind you Jameson....

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyThu Apr 16, 2020 5:40 am

Grovehill wrote:
Tringreen wrote:
Becoming a sustainable championship side requires at least one of these two components.

1. Investment wealth via the club ownership to retain and add to the best staff.

2. A top flight history and resultant developed fanbase.

If a club doesn't have '2', it must have '1' as in the case of Bournemouth, they didn't need the inspiring stadium / gate receipts. With a latent fanbase, like we have,if they see that the owners have what it takes, they will turn up. If not, as with Srapes and co, they get bored with championship and drift away.We are not alone in this but we are the last of the big city clubs not to make a move.
My hope is that if SH can get us to the championship, he will either have enough money himself to finish the job, or be prepared to attract someone who does.



What about

3. a decent recruitment policy aimed at young (teenager or even younger) players--certainly works for that team up the A38

But you wont have analytics on yougsters, just need to have a decent scouting system and contacts.

In Tony Waiter's day Argyle probably had a dozen players who progressed to the First Division.

Am struggling to count them Grovey (it is early in the morning !) after Aleksic and Mariner... Few more after like Gary Megson Martin Hodge or were they apprentices under Waiters ??
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Grovehill



Posts : 1135
Join date : 2012-01-24

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyThu Apr 16, 2020 1:37 pm

I can't remember anyone since Halmosi moving to the top Division.

Aleksic Barron Hodge Mariner and Megson all joined PAFC during Waiters' time. That's a lot better result than over the last ten years.

Or is an England cf and Spurs and Arsenal's first choice keepers, not enough for you?

Let's not forget other TW recruits like Foster, Kevin Hodges, Leigh Cooper, Chris Harrison, John Uzzell, Colin Randall John Delve etc who all had long stints at Home Park including Cup runs and promotion campaigns.

Far better standard than Argyle's "top" players joining the likes of Rotherham or minor overseas teams
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RegGreen



Posts : 4092
Join date : 2015-07-08

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyThu Apr 16, 2020 2:58 pm

Rickler wrote:
Earwegoagain wrote:
I'd be more impressed if they were planning to replace the defence,Add a blistering attacking midfielder and a proven twenty goal a seasn striker from a club at a higher level.

Obviously the notion that 'Data' might help the club achieve your wishes has gone completely over your head...

RegGreen wrote:
Spin and bluster from sigh bet Lowe still signs his mates if his still here when we eventually kick a ball again lol

...and you have obviously missed the fact that it's Neil Dewsnip giving the "spin and bluster" and not Simon Hallett.

Geez...  With fans like you two, what hope is there?
it’s obviously come from the top sighs vision and the way he wants to do things just another suck up delivering the gospel I should of said
Anyway fans like me who made you supporter of year ..let me guess? Ooh you might get a silly title anyway it’s something like what nool would say that all fans are are equal no matter what level of suppprt they have for the club but since you brought it up when was the last time you was at Home Park proberly before Paul mariner had hairs on his nuts . Anyway shouldn’t you be off doing something important playing golf with Arnold swarzenegger or off helping that fat F%[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Trump ruin the world..jog on dickwad
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harvetheslayer

harvetheslayer

Posts : 5855
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Age : 29
Location : Behind you Jameson....

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyThu Apr 16, 2020 4:20 pm

Grovehill wrote:
I can't remember anyone since Halmosi moving to the top Division.

Aleksic Barron Hodge Mariner and Megson all joined PAFC during Waiters' time. That's a lot better result than  over the last ten years.

Or is an England cf and Spurs and Arsenal's first choice keepers, not enough for you?


What you on about lol ?  I said Aleksic, Mariner, Megson and Martin Hodge  ??   You said about a dozen from the Waiters era ??  I got 4 immediately and you retorted with 5.
Clearly my abacus needs batteries...
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Earwegoagain

Earwegoagain

Posts : 6825
Join date : 2017-09-09

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyThu Apr 16, 2020 5:04 pm

Did they all live in Plymouth?
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sufferedsince 68

sufferedsince 68

Posts : 5773
Join date : 2014-06-01
Location : Brentocabin

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyThu Apr 16, 2020 6:16 pm

Got to be an improvement on Jimmy's, Jocko from the Jobcentre, cheap data signings. sunny
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Czarcasm

Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyThu Apr 16, 2020 6:51 pm

Earwegoagain wrote:
Did they all live in Plymouth?

Post of the week. cheers
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Czarcasm

Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyThu Apr 16, 2020 6:57 pm

Anyway Groovey, Hallett has already swept out the Old Boys club with regard the Academy, and is on record as saying the Academy is a big priority. Hence Dewsnip now appointed and overseeing etc.
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Grovehill



Posts : 1135
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PostSubject: Re: Smart Recruitment...   Smart Recruitment... EmptyThu Apr 16, 2020 7:46 pm

Mike Trusson & George Foster went on to play at a higher level.

I haven't got access to my reference books but a full back called Kevin? Smart and a CB ???? Sutton also ring a bell.

The point is that over the past few years (since the Holloway side was sold off) Argyle have a pretty poor record of developing players and the current recruitment strategy seems to be continuing the short termism of the last few years-get someone who can "do a job" for a season or two and then he moves on without the Club getting a fee. Ladapo being the exception to the rule, whereas in times past, we had a good recruitment system that would consistently generate income as well as improving the first team.
I hope that changes, but atm we look to be a million miles from getting another Norris, Mason or Gosling-we haven't even got our own first team keeper
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