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 The Future of the Trust

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Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:50 pm

So no more direct communication between the Trust and PAFC?

Starnes had fobbed off the Trust and they don't even complain about it.





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BBC1

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:57 pm

Rickler wrote:
So no more direct communication between the Trust and PAFC?

Starnes had fobbed off the Trust and they don't even complain about it.





A 'do it yourself' message to all Trust members if ever I've heard one!
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:05 pm

Sadly, echoes of the PASB, dying a death. I won't be renewing unless there are radical changes.
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Frank Bullitt

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:16 pm

Oh well I didn't think he would answer my question about the ACV.

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Tgwu

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:41 pm

That was easy Bob
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Frank Bullitt

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:44 pm

Bob on Facebook wrote:
Under the current agreement with PCC, Brent has the legal right to purchase HP in October. The ACV prevents him from selling it on without first informing the AFT and its membership, who can then carry out due diligence on any prospective buyer and make an alternative bid should they choose.

He finally answered the question!
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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:33 pm

Les Miserable wrote:
argyledad wrote:
I have met with Martyn Starnes on a monthly basis for the last 18 months up to and including May of this year. Frankly, the AFT Board feels that they have run their length. We are now looking to broaden our communication with the club and invite fans to submit questions to the PAFC Board via our website, our fortnightly column in the Herald, our piece in the match day programme, in our bimonthly fanzine and of course direct to P.A.F.C. We shall also be holding an open meeting for fans in the Green Taverners Suite immediately after the Cambridge match at 5 p m on Saturday 10th September.


And Martyn Starnes presumably feels the same?

Anyway thanks for finally responding.

In what way have they run their length though? Why would it no longer be deemed important for the leader of the largest organised supporter body to no longer meet with the man responsible for the day to day running of PAFC

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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:11 pm

Hugh Watt wrote:
Les Miserable wrote:
argyledad wrote:
I have met with Martyn Starnes on a monthly basis for the last 18 months up to and including May of this year. Frankly, the AFT Board feels that they have run their length. We are now looking to broaden our communication with the club and invite fans to submit questions to the PAFC Board via our website, our fortnightly column in the Herald, our piece in the match day programme, in our bimonthly fanzine and of course direct to P.A.F.C. We shall also be holding an open meeting for fans in the Green Taverners Suite immediately after the Cambridge match at 5 p m on Saturday 10th September.


And Martyn Starnes presumably feels the same?

Anyway thanks for finally responding.

In what way have they run their length though? Why would it no longer be deemed important for the leader of the largest organised supporter body to no longer meet with the man responsible for the day to day running of PAFC


Bizarre innit?

I appreciate that nobody likes to lose face but if I had to bet on it my money would be on Starnes calling time on the meetings, not argyledad.
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Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:04 am

Les Miserable wrote:
Hugh Watt wrote:


In what way have they run their length though? Why would it no longer be deemed important for the leader of the largest organised supporter body to no longer meet with the man responsible for the day to day running of PAFC


Bizarre innit?

I appreciate that nobody likes to lose face but if I had to bet on it my money would be on Starnes calling time on the meetings, not argyledad.

It has to be Starnes.  For the Trust to end the meetings would be a dereliction of duty.  I would imagine the members would be outraged?

So what are the trust going to do about being snubbed?   Absolutely nothing it would seem, apart from asking the fans to post questions on the trusts website ( monthly readership about seven) and in their fanzine, and to write to the club directly, etc etc....

What do the AFT think is going to happen?  And when the inevitable snub from the club comes to any substantial questions, what will be the AFT's move then be?  

At this rate they might as well pack up and go home now.
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Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:13 am

Got a question for the Argyle board? Try your luck here:

https://twitter.com/JpmorganArgyle/status/768519561637466112
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:20 am

Rickler wrote:
Les Miserable wrote:
Hugh Watt wrote:


In what way have they run their length though? Why would it no longer be deemed important for the leader of the largest organised supporter body to no longer meet with the man responsible for the day to day running of PAFC


Bizarre innit?

I appreciate that nobody likes to lose face but if I had to bet on it my money would be on Starnes calling time on the meetings, not argyledad.

It has to be Starnes.  For the Trust to end the meetings would be a dereliction of duty.  I would imagine the members would be outraged?

So what are the trust going to do about being snubbed?   Absolutely nothing it would seem, apart from asking the fans to post questions on the trusts website ( monthly readership about seven) and in their fanzine, and to write to the club directly, etc etc....

What do the AFT think is going to happen?  And when the inevitable snub from the club comes to any substantial questions, what will be the AFT's move then be?  

At this rate they might as well pack up and go home now.


Despite the halfhearted bravado, I think they realise the game is up. They chose the wrong path, softly softly. I'm not saying the alternative up and at 'em approach would've worked either, but it would've been so much more fun. Next.
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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:27 am

Seems that my outright calling out of two of the AFT yesterday on Freechat has had at least limited results  !!   The outcome is worse than most had predicted !
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RegGreen



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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:27 am

The board feels its run its length!! Sounds more like starnes has F#@Ked you off if iam honest cos you couldnt swerve that question quick enough..hmm?
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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:35 am

Starnes is speaker at Senior Greens this afternoon. PAFC, always ready to talk to fans. Rolling Eyes


Last edited by green_genie on Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Frank Bullitt

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:55 am

It's interesting that Bob claims to have met Starnes every month up until May. The last Q&A on the AFT website is from their January meeting.

Obviously nothing of note happened that was worth informing the fanbase, nor was it worth informing the fans that these meetings had run their course.

If I didn't know better I would say that Bob is a politician who is desperate to try and spin everything to his advantage. He is clearly not very good at it though as with every utterance he is coming across as incompetent and dishonest.

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Frank Bullitt

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:10 am

Whilst I am on a roll:

From the AFT website wrote:
In February 2016, Home Park was granted Asset of Community Value Status.

ACV status, which lasts for five years, means that should the current owner want to sell, they must notify their intent, triggering a six week window for a community group to express an interest in bidding.

The "current owner" is Plymouth City Council.

After refusing the answer the question on ATD, Bob finally answered on Facebook last night:

Bob on Facebook wrote:
...Brent has the legal right to purchase HP in October. The ACV prevents him from selling it on without first informing the AFT...

So why is the Trust website deceiving the fans? Because that's what its doing - the information is wrong and nothing is being done to rectify it and inform the fans of the mistake. Why has it been so hard to get clarification on this issue and most importantly - what is being done to oppose Brent's purchase of the ground in October?
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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:04 am

That's shocking as a trust member I feel I have been lied to. This is one member who will not be renewing next time.

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:19 am

There's no way a regular meeting with the Chief Executive could ever 'run its length'. Trust members will always have questions or queries about aspects of the club that they want to have put to the hierarchy at Home Park. And even if you put that to one side, what sort of Supporters Trust passes up the opportunity to have a one-to-one with club decision makers on a regular basis.

This whole episode encapsulates the way the Trust has been managed for the last couple of years - supine, submissive and wholly lacking in any sort of bite or challenge. It might as well become an official fan club, such is its lack of relevance any more.
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:14 am

argyledad wrote:
Frankly, the AFT Board feels that they have run their length.


cheers Geddon Bob..........attempting to polish a turd is an understatement.
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PatDunne



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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:23 am

The AFT has been a 'fan club' for quite some time, or as I think of it - Argyle Funding Trust.

Now is the time for the AFT to up it's game, it has money in the bank so what else needs painting/repairing?
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argyledad



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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:02 pm

That's funny Homeslice. I am reliably informed that the previous chair, only had one meeting with the CEO in the last year of his tenure !
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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:49 am

So, is the trust going to actively oppose the ground purchase or not ?

Internet campaign and leaflet drops outside grounds on match days explaining what is really going on and how the board are taking the pi$$. They can find money to purchase the ground for themselves but can't adequately fund the team . At best, Brent could sit on the ground for decades , collecting the rental income and almost certainly will require the tenants to bucket rattle for maintenance. At worst a real developer with no interest in football could buy it from him.

If there is a groundswell of support to oppose the ground purchase, as would seem the case already via online polls, boycotting matches with media coverage [not the erald obviously] of fans protesting outside would appear appropriate.

Either do something, or disband. It's become embarrassing how the fine gentleman uses and abuses the fans. It seems that far too many just want photos on GOS, to be 'known' on the coaches/ in the tents or to progress up the 'useful idiot' pecking order into the directors' box.
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Frank Bullitt

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:36 am

Frank Bullitt wrote:

In October last year I started this thread:

http://www.argyletd.com/t8889-4-positions-but-only-3-applications

I asked if there was anything being done to try and understand why so few people wanted to stand for positions on the AFT board. Bob's considered response was "The Trust will keep on keeping on". The thread is well worth a read as their are some interesting points raised. I found it quite disappointing that Bob was more interested in having a spat with SJH/LB then he was in discussing some of the points made by other posters but hey ho.

TGWU raised a good point that the AFT have to try and sit on a shaky fence knowing full well that they will be ridiculed by one side or the other if they fall off. So the positive point to take from this will be to work out WHY we have such a shaky fence.

The shaky fence is stopping the AFT from being effective. The constant turn over of board members and lack of volunteers is a serious issue. Obviously some feel that they are being constantly criticised, but the balancing act that they are trying to maintain is simply not working. With a 1000+ members they shouldn't be afraid of being critical of the GTs over the Facade debacle. With a 1000+ members they shouldn't be afraid of being critical of Pasoti over the JL survey. With a 1000+ members they shouldn't be afraid of being critical of ATD (in the unlikely event we will ever be wrong). And with 1000+ members they shouldn't be afraid of being critical of the club.

I think we all accept that banging their fists on the table (or heckling) won't work. But we have to have the belief that the AFT will stand up for the fans. I think its clear to everyone that the AFT are afraid of upsetting anyone or anything to do with PAFC.

As Bob said last night:

argyledad wrote:
Shame though that none of the posters on here tonight are willing or able to contribute in a positive way to the running of the Trust.

I say - Let's get to the bottom of this issue and work out why so few people are willing or able to help. There is clearly a problem so lets be positive and fix it.

I thought I would bump my opening post from a few weeks ago. I am wondering if the penny has dropped with the AFT and they have worked out why so few people want to be involved?
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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:00 pm

Interesting regarding Swansea announcing American Bob Bradley as their new manager.

The Swansea Fans Trust own 20% of the club....yet the first they heard of a new manager being appointed was on the BBC News.....a Trust spokesperson said on todays BBC TV News that they where disappointed that they had not been consulted.

If they own 20% of the Club and are not consulted....what chance of us being involved with PAFC.....they are an American owned club.
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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:15 pm

On the face of it? None.

Where votes are decided by the percentage of shares owned he who holds the majority has no need to consult. The Swansea Trust should have thought about that before they relinquished control.

That's not where we are though.

We are in a position where the club still expects/demands/relies upon the goodwill and support of its supporters in various ways. There's the input they benefit from via the Green Taverners for one. AFT painting the wall out front is another. On top of those there's various activities that might be grouped as "bucket rattling".

Which is fine just as long as the volunteers continue to volunteer and meet the need when required/expected/asked to but why should they if they feel that they are being taken for granted/ignored/exploited/abused?

To that end dialogue between club and supporters is essential to maintain the goodwill and cooperation of each towards the other.

At Swansea I suspect that the vast sums of money swilling around the club mean that the US owners have little need for the sort of assistance supporters have given our club in recent years but the situation at Argyle is very different and once the penny drops that those behind the purchase of the ground from PCC are raking in a small fortune themselves as a result (because they will be because ultimately the value of the club, and thus their stake in it, will rise) then people just might start to think that maybe they should be the ones paying to maintain their own property or paying to provide a supporters' bar or paying for video cameras or fixing the Lyndy tellies or whatever.

If I was i/c Argyle I'd be looking to involve the AFT as closely as possible and would want it completely integrated into the fabric of the club because amongst the fanbase there must be expertise in any number of potentially useful areas stretching from cleaning to gardening to painting and decorating to engineering to design to legal to accountancy to IT and God alone knows what else. If they need something doing, then whatever it is, there is probably somebody supportive of the club who could assist in some way in getting it done but why should anybody put themselves forward if nothing came back in return?
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