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 The Future of the Trust

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Frank Bullitt

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PostSubject: The Future of the Trust   Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:01 pm

Last night was the closest I have come to leaving the Trust. I remain hugely disappointed with Bob's comments and attitude but I am not going to leave the AFT because of him. Having revisited the thread this morning I think there points raised by John Lloyd that are worth a positive discussion.

In October last year I started this thread:

http://www.argyletd.com/t8889-4-positions-but-only-3-applications

I asked if there was anything being done to try and understand why so few people wanted to stand for positions on the AFT board. Bob's considered response was "The Trust will keep on keeping on". The thread is well worth a read as their are some interesting points raised. I found it quite disappointing that Bob was more interested in having a spat with SJH/LB then he was in discussing some of the points made by other posters but hey ho.

TGWU raised a good point that the AFT have to try and sit on a shaky fence knowing full well that they will be ridiculed by one side or the other if they fall off. So the positive point to take from this will be to work out WHY we have such a shaky fence.

The shaky fence is stopping the AFT from being effective. The constant turn over of board members and lack of volunteers is a serious issue. Obviously some feel that they are being constantly criticised, but the balancing act that they are trying to maintain is simply not working. With a 1000+ members they shouldn't be afraid of being critical of the GTs over the Facade debacle. With a 1000+ members they shouldn't be afraid of being critical of Pasoti over the JL survey. With a 1000+ members they shouldn't be afraid of being critical of ATD (in the unlikely event we will ever be wrong). And with 1000+ members they shouldn't be afraid of being critical of the club.

I think we all accept that banging their fists on the table (or heckling) won't work. But we have to have the belief that the AFT will stand up for the fans. I think its clear to everyone that the AFT are afraid of upsetting anyone or anything to do with PAFC.

As Bob said last night:

argyledad wrote:
Shame though that none of the posters on here tonight are willing or able to contribute in a positive way to the running of the Trust.

I say - Let's get to the bottom of this issue and work out why so few people are willing or able to help. There is clearly a problem so lets be positive and fix it.
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Homeslice

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:27 pm

Argyledad's premise that none of the posters on ATD are willing to help the Trust is simply wrong. As I subsequently pointed out on the same thread, there are ATD posters who have held a range of positions within the Trust - from elected board members to volunteers assisting with membership, staffing the gazebo, attending events that the Trust has supported, as well as helping out in the Booths that the Trust used to have within the ground on match days.

Maybe it's the case that those people, having done that work for the trust, feel fully justified in stepping back and concentrating on other areas of their lives - you know, the unimportant stuff like family, work and a well rounded lifestyle.

If the current board were to inspire and motivate people to help, maybe the situation will change, but as long as the Trust Board justify their poor response to the EFL trophy situation by saying they are entitled to take two months off, maybe others will do the same.

And when the Trust Chair comes onto this website and refuses to answer questions from members, treats challenging questions as 'constant abuse' and seems more interested in perpetuating petty feuds with members, then he shouldn't be surprised that his appeals for more help are met with a resounding 'up yours'.
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Hugh Watt



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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:00 pm

The most damning indictment has been Rev James Benton Evans comments, he was instrumental in getting the trust off the ground. The flippant response, which was further criticised by Graham Clark another trust mainstay says all you need to know.
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harvetheslayer

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:54 am

I asked the fine gentleman yesterday on JL's FB group why he had ignored my 3 questions posed here over last couple months. Ignored it completely. Waste of Oxygen simple as. Toothless and afraid of his shadow
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Frank Bullitt

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:26 am

On JLs excellent Facebook group, Bob has admitted that he is "sure" that Brent will buy the ground for 1.6 million in October. Bob appears lukewarm to the idea of the Trust trying to buy the club due to the ongoing financial issues AFTER a successful purchase.

According to Bob the ACV gives the Trust 6 months to carry out its own due diligence on any prospective buyer or mount an alternative offer. Bob invites people with serious proposals to attend the AFT meeting on September 10th.

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Graham Clark



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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:33 am

According to the ACV Regulations (see link below) where an option to buy (the freehold) exists the ACV does not apply Schedule 3 4(1)(b). So the ACV will only apply to a sale to a third party by James Brent once the freehold is purchased. By that time the stadium will have been revalued (as Paul Stapleton did and as James Brent did for the Pavilions). The last valuation by a renown London Chartered Surveyor (CB Richard Ellis) valued the combined stadium land and HHP land at £10.4m in May 2008. Since then some of the restrictive covenants on HHP have been lifted by PCC and the HHP land ahs had planning permission for substantial commercial development which in valuation terms at least will have resulted in an increased value.

The prospect of the Trust or any other body of raising the requisite funding to buy the freehold ahead of the buyer James Brent may sell to in the future is fanciful in the extreme given the values involved.

Ironically, what the Trust through the ACV have done is included the HHP land in the ACV. There is no option to purchase on this land so if James Brent wishes to sell this to a third party to, say, enable commercial development to go ahead to assist the funding of the grandstand the Trust get an opportunity to buy that land at the commercial value first. Unwittingly, the existence of an ACV on the HHP land may be an impediment to anything actually getting built by James Brent or his successors who may have more wherewithal to deliver an enabling development to fund the grandstand.

Meanwhile the sleepwalking continues.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2012/9780111525791/schedule/3
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Charlie Wood

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:42 am

I fear the Trust was doomed when our esteemed future President got his mitts on it. The original founders had the right idea with their eye to the long game but several times I enquired of Webby about an AGM and procedures for submitting motions and was told that wasn't important there was a war to fight. As soon as he'd achieved HIS ends he was off and the Trust never stood a chance of recovering.

6 years on I had hoped the Trust would have salted away a considerable sum to really enable it to make a difference. It would need an inspirational visionary to change it's course now and so many folk have been turned off from their lifetime addiction by the crassness surrounding the whole club I can't see anybody capable or willing to take that on. Good luck to the current volunteers but I fear it's only fiddling around the edges.
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PatDunne



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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:01 am

Could Bob get me trade discount at Screwfix or Band q?
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Frank Bullitt

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:09 am

Not if it involves a receipt.
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PatDunne



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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:13 am

C'mon, you can't expect me to just hand over the money without a receipt, who would do that???
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Elias

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:05 pm

Pointless organisation wind it up now.
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lawnmowerman

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:52 pm

Charlie Wood wrote:
I fear the Trust was doomed when our esteemed future President got his mitts on it. The original founders had the right idea with their eye to the long game but several times I enquired of Webby about an AGM and procedures for submitting motions and was told that wasn't important there was a war to fight. As soon as he'd achieved HIS ends he was off and the Trust never stood a chance of recovering.

6 years on I had hoped the Trust would have salted away a considerable sum to really enable it to make a difference. It would need an inspirational visionary to change it's course now and so many folk have been turned off from their lifetime addiction by the crassness surrounding the whole club I can't see anybody capable or willing to take that on. Good luck to the current volunteers but I fear it's only fiddling around the edges.

very sad and very true words spoken charlie that I agree with. all that sit around me have the same opionons. Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad
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Elias

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:46 am

Pointless trust and thread. Delete
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Tringreen

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:16 am

Elias wrote:
Pointless trust and thread. Delete

Indeed. It is pointlees, like Argiggle. The only way it will grow is by picking a fight with the club's shareholders over the ground purchase.

If that fails to garner a groundswell of support from the wider fanbase, with resultant boycott of matches etc etc, it might as well disband now....................but some people just like to think they're 'someone' and are not really any different from the jamboys and bucket rattlers. They're not. The shareholders just use them if useful in driving up income but will absolutely take not a blind bit of notice of what they say.
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Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:53 am

Even though I have pulled out of the Trust, it is certainly not pointless!

The leaders will come and go and the membership will wax and wane.

It is vital there is a group that will represent fans and voice their wishes. I feel take 'action' should also be on the agenda, but for the time being, the leadership of the AFT prefer a softer approach. so be it... They are the ones doing the work.

Things will change. They always do.
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PatDunne



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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:46 am

If that fails to garner a groundswell of support from the wider fanbase, with resultant boycott of matches etc etc, it might as well disband now

Might as well disband now then.
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:29 am

Rickler wrote:
Even though I have pulled out of the Trust, it is certainly not pointless!

The leaders will come and go and the membership will wax and wane.

It is vital there is a group that will represent fans and voice their wishes.  I feel take 'action' should also be on the agenda, but for the time being, the leadership of the AFT prefer a softer approach.  so be it...  They are the ones doing the work.

Things will change.  They always do.  


Sums it up nicely.
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harvetheslayer

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:13 am

Is Bob Foale and Tony Cannon one and the same from this trust.....?? Neither are capable of answering any questions I put to them politely on Freechat. More evasive then Brent and that takes some doing.
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Tringreen

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:21 am

PatDunne wrote:
If that fails to garner a groundswell of support from the wider fanbase, with resultant boycott of matches etc etc, it might as well disband now

Might as well disband now then.

If the trust is not prepared to fight tooth and nail over the ground ownership issue, what is it there for ?

Might as well just bend over and think of England.
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PatDunne



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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:01 pm

I meant that there wont be a groundswell of support, the Janners think Brent SHOULD buy the ground.....
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:48 pm

PatDunne wrote:
I meant that there wont be a groundswell of support, the Janners think Brent SHOULD buy the ground.....


Not so sure about that Pat, the outcome of the survey question regarding the freehold was questionable imo.
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RegGreen



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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:57 pm

The trust has got no bollocks if they did there be walking over hot coals to stop this charletian getting his greedy hands on the ground ...so grow some bob/trust
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Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:04 pm

The trust is not in a position to stop Brent from buying the ground. ACV status was too late for that. Why the trust don't make this point clear is beyond me?

The battle has moved on...
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harvetheslayer

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:59 pm

PatDunne wrote:
I meant that there wont be a groundswell of support, the Janners think Brent SHOULD buy the ground.....

lol that survey was saturated with Multis. I was surprised John Lloyd wasn't aware how easy it is/was to switch an IP address from any dynamic router. The Pig  Pig  and his coherts could have voted collectively 400-500 times over the course of 24 hours and certainly did
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argyl3

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PostSubject: Re: The Future of the Trust   Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:48 pm

Trust? What trust?
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