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 AFT Chirman's Update # 11

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John_Lloyd



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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:30 pm

With apologies to Bob, I was going to post about this earlier, but forgot while beng absorbed in the Olympics and other things.

As in the last four or five years, the Close Season survey has been a collaborative effort between the AFT, the club and myself.

Each party has an opportunity to contribute to the structure and content of the survey, with the aim of making it as useful and relevant as it can be.

This year was no different - there was a period of discussion with the club and then between myself and Bob and Celia, before an agreed version was posted.

The increased participation levels are testament to the benefits of a planned and organised process.

There is little to be found to criticise here, in my opinion.

Whilst I am on the topic, I would just say this.

The AFT is a voluntary organisation, with a very small band of committed individuals who are trying their best to represent, to question and to support.

Those are three potentially contradictory and difficult aims, particularly in such a febrile and demanding environment as the Argyle Internet.

Yes, there are frustrations, possible errors of judgement, diplomatic wrangles and never-ending procedural impasses.

But unless we all do what we can to support those in fan representation roles, we may find ourselves with no-one willing to take those roles and a complete absence in that important bridge between us and the club.

I know what I'm talking about.

There's a finite amount of patience and commitment available in us all and ceaseless criticism of those who are trying to do their best on our behalf will drain it that much more quickly.

Just saying.
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argyledad



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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:42 pm

Thanks John. Much appreciated. My previous post clearly states that our membership has risen to a thousand plus members in the last year. The exact number is an ever changing picture and the membership secretary will give us an exact figure at our next board meeting on the 20th.
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Hugh Watt
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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:46 pm

John_Lloyd wrote:
With apologies to Bob, I was going to post about this earlier, but forgot while beng absorbed in the Olympics and other things.

As in the last four or five years, the Close Season survey has been a collaborative effort between the AFT, the club and myself.

Each party has an opportunity to contribute to the structure and content of the survey, with the aim of making it as useful and relevant as it can be.

This year was no different - there was a period of discussion with the club and then between myself and Bob and Celia, before an agreed version was posted.

The increased participation levels are testament to the benefits of a planned and organised process.

There is little to be found to criticise here, in my opinion.

Whilst I am on the topic, I would just say this.

The AFT is a voluntary organisation, with a very small band of committed individuals who are trying their best to represent, to question and to support.

Those are three potentially contradictory and difficult aims, particularly in such a febrile and demanding environment as the Argyle Internet.

Yes, there are frustrations, possible errors of judgement, diplomatic wrangles and never-ending procedural impasses.

But unless we all do what we can to support those in fan representation roles, we may find ourselves with no-one willing to take those roles and a complete absence in that important bridge between us and the club.

I know what I'm talking about.

There's a finite amount of patience and commitment available in us all and ceaseless criticism of those who are trying to do their best on our behalf will drain it that much more quickly.

Just saying.

To be quite honest id rather there was no fan representation than this current shower. You only have to look at their inactivity over the summer. If they aren't willing todo the job properly themm they shouldn't be doing it all, hopefully more organic forms of fan representation would emerge.

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Hugh Watt
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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:51 pm

argyledad wrote:
Thanks John. Much appreciated. My previous post clearly states that our membership has risen to a thousand plus members in the last year. The exact number is an ever changing picture and the membership secretary will give us an exact figure at our next board meeting on the 20th.

Ok how about you tell us what it was, last time you checked. I know figures aren't your strong point but come on there must be a spreadsheet, it really isn't hard to give a figure

How can it be an ever changing picture do members resign? You must have this number or at least access to this number?

How is a "thousand plus" a clear answer?

You really are crap at this.

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Frank Bullitt

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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:03 pm

I agree with Hugh.

We all appreciate that you are volunteers and that you have a difficult job, but I am very disappointed in the performance of the current AFT board and chairman.
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argyledad



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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:07 pm

And you must be pretty crap yourself if you don't understand that the membership secretary spends between 8 and 10 hours a week processing memberships, chasing renewals, sending out membership packs, issuing reminders and liaising with the treasurer. Suffice it to say that we, at any given time over the last nine moths, have averaged just below or just over one thousand members.
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alannotivvy

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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:08 pm

I think even i could email the membership secretary instead of waiting for a meeting every few months.

Does anything related to the Trust get discussed outside of the official meeetings ?
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argyledad



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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:15 pm

The constant barrage of abuse is of course one of the main reasons why the AFT are looking for new Board members each year and why there has been a new Chairman every year. Sorry to disappoint you Frank and Hugh, but it just so happens that I've signed on for a second year as Chair. Perhaps you'd both like to come to our open meeting on the 20th with Homesplice and volunteer your constructive ideas for the way forward.
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:20 pm

argyledad wrote:
The constant barrage of abuse is of course one of the main reasons why the AFT are looking for new Board members each year and why there has been a new Chairman every year. Sorry to disappoint you Frank and Hugh, but it just so happens that I've signed on for a second year as Chair. Perhaps you'd both like to come to our open meeting on the 20th with Homesplice and volunteer your constructive ideas for the way forward.


cheers
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Hugh Watt
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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:31 pm

argyledad wrote:
And you must be pretty crap yourself if you don't understand that the membership secretary spends between 8 and 10 hours a week processing memberships, chasing renewals, sending out membership packs, issuing reminders and liaising with the treasurer. Suffice it to say that we, at any given time over the last nine moths, have averaged just below or just over one thousand members.

its not the membership secretary that's the problem I'm sure that person does a fine job. It's the lacklustre leadership,that is the issue, like going to sleep for the summer.

I'm guessing being called out is what you mean by "constant barrage of abuse".

As for your meeting, I'll pass thanks but in terms of constructive ideas for the way forward. How about a course in Microsoft excel so you can answer simple questions like how many members have you got?

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Homeslice

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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:36 pm

argyledad - can you point the mods in the direction of the 'constant barrage of abuse'? Questioning, scepticism and challenge are one thing but if you're being subjected to constant abuse, I'm sure I speak for the entire Mod team when I say we would like to deal with it.
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Frank Bullitt

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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:37 pm

Well I hope your performance improves in your second year Bob. In my opinion it has been very poor so far.

Sadly I don't think you have the slightest intention of listening to your members as has been evidenced by your attitude to the questions posed to you on this board over the last year.

Your refusal to answer questions has shown you in a very poor light but it appears you are happy to dismiss our frustrations as "abuse". I note that you have been heavily criticised by two respected former Trust leaders on Pasoti recently. Did you dismiss that as "abuse" as well?

I live 350 miles from Plymouth so I won't be coming to your open meeting (have you organised a venue yet?) I have already submitted a proposal for the AFT to consider which I hope will raise funds and profile - will this be dismissed as invalid as I won't be there in person to present it?

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Frank Bullitt

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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:41 pm

It seems to me that Bob is implying that the "constant barrage of abuse" is coming from ATD.

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argyledad



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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:46 pm

Heaven forbid that I should think that Frank ! Shame though that none of the posters on here tonight are willing or able to contribute in a positive way to the running of the Trust. Meanwhile it will remain under my watch. Goodnight gentlemen.
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Frank Bullitt

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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:48 pm

Ahh I see. Asking questions doesn't count as being positive?

Very poor Bob. Very poor.
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Hugh Watt
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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:49 pm

And meanwhile it will remain a complete irrelevance with no direction.

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BBC1

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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:07 pm

Tis all a bit sad if you ask me.
I would have been there at the open meeting but sadly I'm doing something far more enjoyable by going to a festival.
Entertainment guaranteed.
Perhaps i'll be able to make the one after that, which is usually the AGM in November.
By that time hopefully I'll be free from the heartache and stress of the past 5 years.
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Homeslice

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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:09 pm

argyledad wrote:
Heaven forbid that I should think that Frank ! Shame though that none of the posters on here tonight are willing or able to contribute in a positive way to the running of the Trust. Meanwhile it will remain under my watch. Goodnight gentlemen.

There are plenty of ATD posters (ladies as well as gentlemen. Do try to be inclusive) who've contributed to the Trust - from working on the Trust booths inside the ground, to helping on the gazebo, as well as a number of Board members and volunteers in other spheres - membership, administration, and other supporting functions. Maybe Bob could set out all the work he did for the Trust prior to standing for election, as a guide for others who wish to do the same?
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Dick Trickle



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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:10 pm

Complete irrelevance with no direction = trust or club
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Rickler

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PostSubject: Re: AFT Chirman's Update # 11   Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:20 pm

argyledad,

I think any "barrage of abuse" comes about due to a barrel of frustration...

Putting aside the FPC debacle and a lack of tough follow up questions to all parties concerned regarding what is going on, (and these answers being quickly conveyed to the readership) simple questions to you (or AFT) like "Did the AFT even send an email out to members reminding them about the survey?" don't get answered.   I am guessing because the answer is No, and it would just be plain embarrassing to admit that?

But this sort of stuff (FYI) is why i resigned my AFT membership:

Rickler wrote:
argyledad wrote:
I have had no conversations with the GT's Rickler. From day one the AFT offered to run with the idea of a replacement Far Post Club. The club declined our offer and instead entrusted the GTs with this project. When the AFT questioned the progress on this initiative we were originally told that a planning application had been made. This turned out to be false information and as far as we are aware no successful application has yet to be made.

But Bob...  

No conversation with the GT's?  Why not?  Surely you know by now that you can't trust everything PAFC tell you!  Why wouldn't you get their side of the events?

Talking of talking to the GT's

argyledad wrote:
.... My first year as chair was interesting in finding out who we could work with effectively and who we could trust. And yes mistakes were made, from which I and the rest of the Board will learn. I can only reaffirm that the AFT is NOT a fund raising supporters club for PAFC and / or James Brent. Meanwhile I have initiated some enquiries into whether the club owe the GTs any money and, if so, how much.

So how are those talks going?  What did the club and the GT's say?  Did their stories match?  Who is paying the tax liability? Etc, etc...

I look forward to the answers.

Thanks for your time and effort.


You ask us for questions and then ignore some of them.   Some serious stuff just seems to get blanked every time. Why?  

It is commonly understood the GT's give money to PAFC and it must be repaid in one form or another at some time (I find it puzzling there seems to be no date for this to be completed by?)  Common sense tells you that there also has to be taxes paid on all this money from Fanfests etc.  Who is paying them?  

Or is this basic 'understanding' of the agreement between PAFC and the GT's wrong?  If so, what is their relationship LEGALLY?

You yourself said on MARCH 23rd you had "initiated some enquiries into whether the club owe the GTs any money and, if so, how much?"

That's over four months.  Well... I'll ask yet again, what was the outcome?

Thank you.
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