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Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:45 am

Jeremy Corbyn as Labour party leader is, as far as the Tories are concerned, a true gift from the Gods.

Pure comedy that he thinks he can successfully continue as leader with 80% of his own MP's wanting him out.

Quite a few of us on these Boards predicted he'd bomb as Leader. It didn't take long. cat
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:54 am

Sort of reminds me of a website where the leader isn't very popular but nobody can do anything about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:39 pm

Czarcasm wrote:
Jeremy Corbyn as Labour party leader is, as far as the Tories are concerned, a true gift from the Gods.

Pure comedy that he thinks he can successfully continue as leader with 80% of his own MP's wanting him out.

Quite a few of us on these Boards predicted he'd bomb as Leader. It didn't take long. cat

So, who should elect any party leader ? their wider full membership or just those few parliamentarians at the top ?
I happen to think Jezza didn't do a great job of leading during this referendum, and he plainly isn't the leader sort, but he has every right to stay, to reflect the overwhelming mandate he has been given, only a year ago. And of course, it's only his leadership qualities that were disappointing, not necessarily his policies. If anything, he has been the most eurosceptic of all the party leaders, over his career.
I thought you had just been praising the merits of the widest possible democratic representation ? Your opinion applied to the EU referendum would see it's result overturned and not acted on by the majority of present MPs.
The Labour MPs have every right to try and effect a Westminster revolt, but it must still go back to the grass roots to decide. If anything, it's many of the sitting MPs that have not reflected their voters' wishes that has caused the present demise of the Labour Party, not Corbyn, who has been warning them of such a disconnect for years and years.
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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:46 pm

I quite agree Lord B, I can see a gang of four moment coming up, will be interesting to see how the new party brands itself, Blairocons, Neoblairs, Belaboured? SNP as the opposition isn't a million miles away from happening, that will he a joy to behold. What a feckin state this country is in. Elections are a waste of time now anyway with the rise of the SNP labour is finished which means we may well all be dead before we see a change from the Tories.
I wonder why 60% of young people didn't vote in the referendum?
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Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:33 pm

Lord Biro wrote:
Czarcasm wrote:
Jeremy Corbyn as Labour party leader is, as far as the Tories are concerned, a true gift from the Gods.

Pure comedy that he thinks he can successfully continue as leader with 80% of his own MP's wanting him out.

Quite a few of us on these Boards predicted he'd bomb as Leader. It didn't take long. cat

So, who should elect any party leader ? their wider full membership or just those few parliamentarians at the top ?
I happen to think Jezza didn't do a great job of leading during this referendum, and he plainly isn't the leader sort, but he has every right to stay, to reflect the overwhelming mandate he has been given, only a year ago. And of course, it's only his leadership qualities that were disappointing, not necessarily his policies. If anything, he has been the most eurosceptic of all the party leaders, over his career.
I thought you had just been praising the merits of the widest possible democratic representation ? Your opinion applied to the EU referendum would see it's result overturned and not acted on by the majority of present MPs.
The Labour MPs have every right to try and effect a Westminster revolt, but it must still go back to the grass roots to decide. If anything, it's many of the sitting MPs that have not reflected their voters' wishes that has caused the present demise of the Labour Party, not Corbyn, who has been warning them of such a disconnect for years and years.

Classic. lol! lol!

TBH all this mess has actually made politics a lots more interesting, if only for the comedy value of comments like that. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:44 pm

I'm talking of his EU policy in this referendum, Czarky, not his Trident policy and wider socialist issues taking on the Blairite vision of most MPs. Where were his policies on the EU any different to any potential Labour challenger for the leadership ? They weren't.
The only policy of his involved in this referendum that differs from a leadership contender like Burnham is the Trident thing.

I'm fully aware no CND man is going to get much in these islands from a referendum  issue based on nationalism/sovereignty issues, but it's his performance that has emboldened the huge majority of Blairite MPs that have never wanted him.  
I also happen to believe a CND stance will not win Labour a general election sadly, but that is no reason to stop trying and representing what you believe in. Farage didn't stop for what he wanted.
And in any case, if the country ends up a one party state for a while, it will deserve to be so, so showing up for real at last, the Chomsky view on narrow politics Mr Trickle refers to. And then the real politics and lack of representation that this referendum has highlighted, can start.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:08 am

It seems to me that we have an electoral system completely unsuited to modern politics.

The two main parties are split along what are probably irreconcilable lines: with the Tories it is pro- v anti-Europe; for Labour it is Old Labour v New Labour.

What we really need is for each party to split into its discrete factions and start again but recent history (eg Labour/SDP) has shown what happens to both the party that splits and the breakaway group and so both parties will attempt to struggle on.

The sensible course of action would probably be for the pro-Euro Tories and the New Labour people to just leave and join the Lib Dems leaving the anti-Europe Tories free to merge with UKIP (which, let's face it, they might as well do anyway).
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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:11 pm

And what happens to the Left and the under class ?
You might as well know now Frank. Farage's idea before the referendum, which I assume he thought he would narrowly lose, was to take a turn to the left. You know, the old "Nationalists" meet "socialists" routine. Been tried before of course.
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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:36 pm

And let's not forget that the unexpected support for Brexit that surpirised the pundits was from working class Labour voters, which of Franzis boxes do they fit into?
The biggest mistake that the ruling classes can make is to ignore the clear majority that are unhappy with Europe and the even bigger percentage that is unhappy with modern politics. It seems both the Tories and Labour are doing an admirable job of being completely and utterly out of touch with the man on the street as are the groli's.
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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:46 pm

Chuckle.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:55 pm

Jeremy Corybn issues statement in which he spells his own name wrongly..

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:05 pm

Lol pity he didn't ask you to write it for him.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:14 pm

We're not that closely aligned so that's not likely to happen.
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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:30 pm

lol! I was taking the piss.
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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:41 pm

Amsterdamage wrote:
And let's not forget that the unexpected support for Brexit that surpirised the pundits was from working class Labour voters, which of Franzis boxes do they fit into? .

Very true. So, let's try to tentatively broach a subject here that hasn't been touched on during the referendum, and for some strange reason, the attack dog media and right wing politicians halted their ongoing relentless campaign, just like that. How many of that understandably disaffected Brexit vote is the now habitually demonised undeserving poor Brits, as opposed to the heroic hard working family deserving poor Brits ? Not a dickie bird, not a tweet, not a sniff. And just what happens after life gets back to normal, and the undeserving millions that undoubtedly voted for Brexit start getting trashed again ? I find the temporary truce very welcome. Does nationalism or sovereignty trump the deserving thing ? Any comments  ? Why are the undeserving poor now a fully paid up member of the heroic Brit working class ?


Last edited by Lord Biro on Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:53 pm

Popcorn Pig wrote:
172 V 40 in huge vote of no confidence in JC. Gotta go now, shirly!!



He won't though will he.

If there is a new leader election and he puts his name down, his huge army of supporters will vote him in again.

I can see the Labour Party splitting, with Corbyn as leader of one party and someone else the leader of the other.
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Angry

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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:01 pm

VillageGreen wrote:
Popcorn Pig wrote:
172 V 40 in huge vote of no confidence in JC. Gotta go now, shirly!!



He won't though will he.

If there is a new leader election and he puts his name down, his huge army of supporters will vote him in again.

I can see the Labour Party splitting, with Corbyn as leader of one party and someone else the leader of the other.

he may have the support of the members but all the MP's who want him out will do is vote against him and undermined him at every turn making his leadership even weaker in the commons.
He should fall on his sword for the good of the party and i only hope the labour party unite behind the right man or woman in order too repair the damage this saga has done and get them in some sort o shape for the next general election whether thats in 2020 or next year.

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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:59 pm

VillageGreen wrote:
Popcorn Pig wrote:
172 V 40 in huge vote of no confidence in JC. Gotta go now, shirly!!



He won't though will he.

If there is a new leader election and he puts his name down, his huge army of supporters will vote him in again.

I can see the Labour Party splitting, with Corbyn as leader of one party and someone else the leader of the other.

I've no idea what will end up happening to Corbyn or where this is going but I strongly suspect a single Labour party will continue to exist.

Everybody is all too aware of what followed the SDP/Labour split and it won't happen again.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:02 pm

Angry wrote:
VillageGreen wrote:
Popcorn Pig wrote:
172 V 40 in huge vote of no confidence in JC. Gotta go now, shirly!!



He won't though will he.

If there is a new leader election and he puts his name down, his huge army of supporters will vote him in again.

I can see the Labour Party splitting, with Corbyn as leader of one party and someone else the leader of the other.

he may have the support of the members but all the MP's who want him out will do is vote against him and undermined him at every turn making his leadership even weaker in the commons.
He should fall on his sword for the good of the party and i only hope the labour party unite behind the right man or woman in order too repair the damage this saga has done and get them in some sort o shape for the next general election whether thats in 2020 or next year.


I'm not suggesting that this is a good option but if the party members are so over-whelmingly pro-Corbyn then they'll deselect their standing anti-Corbynite and appoint a pro-Corbynite.

All really Corbyn has to do is sit tight and wait for the new cohort to vote with him.
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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:12 pm

Lord Biro wrote:
Amsterdamage wrote:
And let's not forget that the unexpected support for Brexit that surpirised the pundits was from working class Labour voters, which of Franzis boxes do they fit into? .

Very true. So, let's try to tentatively broach a subject here that hasn't been touched on during the referendum, and for some strange reason, the attack dog media and right wing politicians halted their ongoing relentless campaign, just like that. How many of that understandably disaffected Brexit vote is the now habitually demonised undeserving poor Brits, as opposed to the heroic hard working family deserving poor Brits ? Not a dickie bird, not a tweet, not a sniff. And just what happens after life gets back to normal, and the undeserving millions that undoubtedly voted for Brexit start getting trashed again ? I find the temporary truce very welcome. Does nationalism or sovereignty trump the deserving thing ? Any comments  ? Why are the undeserving poor now a fully paid up member of the heroic Brit working class ?

Fecked if I know what you're on about? I'm guessing there's an implied criticism about me in there somewhere not that I can be fooked to look for it. All I know is as one of the working class I'll always be on their side.
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VillageGreen

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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:22 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
VillageGreen wrote:
Popcorn Pig wrote:
172 V 40 in huge vote of no confidence in JC. Gotta go now, shirly!!



He won't though will he.

If there is a new leader election and he puts his name down, his huge army of supporters will vote him in again.

I can see the Labour Party splitting, with Corbyn as leader of one party and someone else the leader of the other.

I've no idea what will end up happening to Corbyn or where this is going but I strongly suspect a single Labour party will continue to exist.

Everybody is all too aware of what followed the SDP/Labour split and it won't happen again.


If there is a general election called later this year or early next year (there is talk of this possibly happening, as you are no doubt aware) , the Labour Party will not be ready for that i am sure. The window of campaign would be a short one and with the internal strife continuing, it would see the Labour Party get thrashed at the ballot box.

The Tories will have a new PM in place by the end of September and should he or she call an election, i think they would be better suited (and placed) to campaign and win.

Politics is a funny old game and i have to disagree with you about the Labour Party splitting, you can never say never. There are many Blairites within the Labour Party still and one could well see them forming a new party with a Labour-ish theme and taking many with them

Corbyn could well become the leader of a smaller party with Left-Wing policies. A corbyn led outfit would be around the same size (maybe higher, maybe lower) as say UKIP.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:30 pm

I'm fairly sure a new PM will have to call an early general election. He/she will have seen what happened to Gordon Brown when he did not.

We might even see a brand new single issue pro-EU party formed for when it does.

I don't think Corbyn & Co will leave. If they were minded to do that they would have done so years ago and joined respect or SWP or something but they did not.

The Blairites would be today's equivalent of the Gang Of Four if they went. They'd have to either form their own new party or join the Lib Dems and I just can't see that happening either.

Mind you after recent events who knows anything anymore?
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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:37 pm

Carry on clutching at those straws Franzi.
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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:19 pm

Amsterdamage wrote:
Lord Biro wrote:
Amsterdamage wrote:
And let's not forget that the unexpected support for Brexit that surpirised the pundits was from working class Labour voters, which of Franzis boxes do they fit into? .

Very true. So, let's try to tentatively broach a subject here that hasn't been touched on during the referendum, and for some strange reason, the attack dog media and right wing politicians halted their ongoing relentless campaign, just like that. How many of that understandably disaffected Brexit vote is the now habitually demonised undeserving poor Brits, as opposed to the heroic hard working family deserving poor Brits ? Not a dickie bird, not a tweet, not a sniff. And just what happens after life gets back to normal, and the undeserving millions that undoubtedly voted for Brexit start getting trashed again ? I find the temporary truce very welcome. Does nationalism or sovereignty trump the deserving thing ? Any comments  ? Why are the undeserving poor now a fully paid up member of the heroic Brit working class ?

Fecked if I know what you're on about? I'm guessing there's an implied criticism about me in there somewhere not that I can be fooked to look for it. All I know is as one of the working class I'll always be on their side.

No, you were not in my mind at all. I tend to skip over your stuff now, as you do me. ATD has become a victim of the divisive EU debate as have many other things. It happened in Scotland too over their independence debate. I would have thought you don't come across many of the undeserving poor where you live. Most of us humans avoid taboo subjects when it suits our purpose. Obviously the undeserving/deserving narrative that has bedeviled our social cohesion for decades  has totally disappeared during the Brexit debate. I wonder why ? Any thoughts on who they might have voted for as  a demographic group, having been slagged off by the establishment for decades ? Normally it's a red hot topic in any political discussion. Don't you think that's strange ? Even George Osborne left them alone for a few weeks. Not a peep from the Brexit side either. Weird.
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PostSubject: Re: Labour Party Meltdown...   Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:15 am

Not many of the undeserving poor where I live? Urban based mega wank of the highest order. If you'd just get out of your cocoon of self righteousness for a minute a get around a bit, and I don't mean Padstien you'd find plenty of poverty in rural areas. There's poverty in my road, people struggle here, it's a fact, go and look it up if you don't believe me. Wages are poor, public transport non existent, poll tax and water rates higher than the national average, house prices through the roof and rentals sky high and centred towards the holiday market. You really are ignorant.
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