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 EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...

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Hugh Watt



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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:10 pm

Czarcasm wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
We're getting off track here but I'm not a great fan of Corbyn. As far as policies go I'm about 75% in favour. As far as his leadership goes I'm about 0% in favour. He's just not The Man.

I'm not at all keen on Blair though. For him it was the other way around. His policies stank but he was a very effective leader.

So park me somewhere between the two.

As for PMs I'd say Blair (for the Iraq War) and Cameron (for Brexit) have been the most appalling PMs we have ever had - and certainly in my lifetime if there's worse way back in history.

And that is some claim when Thatcher is in the field.


Cameron (for Brexit). Really?

You're lambasting a PM purely for giving the nation a choice? Bizarre.

He gave the nation a choice. He wanted to remain. He lost. God bless democracy.  king

If Cameron is guilty of anything, then it's quite clearly underestimating the depth of feeling of us Brits on EU issues.  

If there'd have been a couple of % swing the other way to remain, I presume Thatcher would have usurped Dave as your 'most appalling'.  Rolling Eyes


It was never about offering the nation a choice. It's naive to think so.

The referendum was a sop offered before the last election In order to pacify his swivel eyed back benchers and because he was getting the heebie jeebies over the popularity of UKIP.

He didn't expect to be prime minister let alone have a majority and have to actually deliver it.

He gambled with the nations and his own future as PM and lost. His legacy is a divided and directionless country ever lurching to the right to the extent where some workers piss in bottles because they get penalised for going to the John too often. Yet we blame Romainans for our nations Ills.

If anyone can name some tangible his premiership has given the nation, i look forward to hearing it.
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Hugh Watt



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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:15 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Obviously.

Maggie was a disaster on multitudinous levels but she did not endanger the Union, she did oversee the signing of the Maastricht Treaty and was rightly dismissive of referendums as a way of governing. Nor did she leave the horrendous mess in the Middle East that Blair was a part of creating.

Putting Cameron and Osborne's abhorrent economic and social vandalism to one side Cameron completely failed to lead his party, and the nation as you observe, in the direction he wanted, promised a referendum that he never expected to have to call and then lost it. His negligence, complacency, incompetence and calamities piled high and all of it could easily have been avoided were he not such an arrogant oaf, had the balls to face his opponents down and not allowed the tail of his party to wag the dog instead of which he fecked up completely and then quit to absolve himself of the aftermath that gives this thread its name.

Worst of all though was the leader of the Conservative and Unionist Party endangering the very Union from which it takes its name. Unforgiveable.

The only thing on his balance sheet that bestows any credit is legalising same sex marriage, which was long overdue, but it is not enough.

History will not be kind to him.

Spot on and not a link or chart in sight. Basketball

I expect the usual suspects will be along any minute .

Turning it round, there doesn't seem to be answer as to what the vote for Brexit has achieved? Because we won't be leaving the EU not in any meaningful sense
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:34 pm

Cameron's one great achievement was same-sex marriage and his party largely detests him for introducing it.

That's nearly as ironic as a Unionist jeopardising, at best, the Union.
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Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:38 pm

Geddon Franny. Anyone'd think you were attempting to provoke another totally different debate. Very Happy

Shorely not.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:08 am

Not at all. It wasn't me that introduced Blair to the thread and I don't want the impression that I am a Corbynite to go unchallenged because I'm not.

In fact referring back to the Overton Window, as discussed in the LRB link I posted, the only reason I'm seen as some sort of loony leftie, by some, is that Overton's "window" has shifted miles to the right. I'd describe myself as what was once seen as "centre left" politically. Very mainstream really.

The simple fact that UKIP isn't laughed out of town shows you all you need to know about how far to the right the discourse has shifted.

And since Cameron quit in the aftermath of the referendum then assessing his Premiership is bang on topic is it not?
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mouldyoldgoat
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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:20 am

As far as I am concerned Thatcher, Cameron and Labour all have something in common.

Thatcher sorted out Britain after Labour fecked up the country by letting the unions run riot without as much as a 'please stop.'

And before anyone starts on about how she did it, I don’t give a FU CK!

I saw my Father sick with worry when I was a kid and almost lose his job when he did the right thing and the union at work turned on him because it suited them.

They didn’t give a FU CK that he had a wife and family to support after he had paid his subs to them for over 20 years. They abandoned him. It was the company that stood by him.

I have had to deal with unions and their petty rules all my working life.

Not all unions are bad but the ones I have had to deal with and their reps, I wouldn’t piss on them if they were on fire.

As for Blair in 1997 and that cnut of a chancellor of his, I had done as I was asked by the Tories and started a private pension for my old age. Those bastards took so much out of it that it is worth nothing. In fact I have not long ago been told how much my pension is worth a month when it comes out in 2 years time ( I was aiming to retire at 55). I will be lucky to get £800 – 900 a month before tax. I can’t now.

Cameron sorted out Britain after Labour fecked up the country by spending all the money and leaving us almost bankrupt.

As for article 50 I don't recall anyone on the leave side saying that they would invoke it the day after the referendum if we voted to go. But if someone can find such a statement then please point me in the right direction.

Also people going on about how nothing has been done about said article and how it won't be until 2019 before we leave, well yes, that is correct if it is triggered in 2017 because it is stated that it will take 2 years to sort out.

SFD you are right Cameron didn't think he would lose so he and his Government put nothing in motion if they didn't get the decision they wanted.

So you as remainers want the Government to invoke article 50 now without any preparation for the work to be done just to say we told you so if it goes tits up.

So much for the well being of the country and the union you keep going on about that you care for.

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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:42 am

Cameron has not left a "sorted" economy.

His leadership has seen our level of national debt increase by more than every Labour government ever added together with nothing to show for it.

If we were broke when he took over then we're twice as broke now. How is that a success in anybody's eyes?

He could hardly have failed economically more badly and that's before Brexit has its effect.
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Hugh Watt



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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:11 am

mouldyoldgoat wrote:
As far as I am concerned Thatcher, Cameron and Labour all have something in common.

Thatcher sorted out Britain after Labour fecked up the country by letting the unions run riot without as much as a 'please stop.'

And before anyone starts on about how she did it, I don’t give a FU CK!

I saw my Father sick with worry when I was a kid and almost lose his job when he did the right thing and the union at work turned on him because it suited them.

They didn’t give a FU CK that he had a wife and family to support after he had paid his subs to them for over 20 years. They abandoned him. It was the company that stood by him.

I have had to deal with unions and their petty rules all my working life.

Not all unions are bad but the ones I have had to deal with and their reps, I wouldn’t piss on them if they were on fire.

As for Blair in 1997 and that cnut of a chancellor of his, I had done as I was asked by the Tories and started a private pension for my old age. Those bastards took so much out of it that it is worth nothing. In fact I have not long ago been told how much my pension is worth a month when it comes out in 2 years time ( I was aiming to retire at 55). I will be lucky to get £800 – 900 a month before tax. I can’t now.

Cameron sorted out Britain after Labour fecked up the country by spending all the money and leaving us almost bankrupt.

As for article 50 I don't recall anyone on the leave side saying that they would invoke it the day after the referendum if we voted to go. But if someone can find such a statement then please point me in the right direction.

Also people going on about how nothing has been done about said article and how it won't be until 2019 before we leave, well yes, that is correct if it is triggered in 2017 because it is stated that it will take 2 years to sort out.

SFD you are right Cameron didn't think he would lose so he and his Government put nothing in motion if they didn't get the decision they wanted.

So you as remainers want the Government to invoke article 50 now without any preparation for the work to be done just to say we told you so if it goes tits up.

So much for the well being of the country and the union you keep going on about that you care for.

Mouldy the National debt  has doubled under Cameron. He led us into a triple dip recession, we are the only nation other than Greece in the EU that real wages are still declining, growth has still not risen to pre 2008 rates

The fact the unions have been weakened has led to the likes of Sports Direct being allowed to treat their staff like cattle.

It was Cameron who said that article 50 was supposed to be invoked on the morning of the result, whether or not it wasn't is moot. That's what he told the electorate.

Surely we had a contingency plan.....oh we didn't
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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:35 pm

I think the Contingency Plan was not to have a contingency plan.

And amongst all the pre-referendum guff we were led to believe was the idea that Cameron would remain as PM no matter what. That was never going to be tenable if he lost.

Even then the plan was not to have a plan for as long as possible. If you recall Cameron's next gambit once he'd quit was to stay in office until the Tory Conference while the next leader was selected. It would then be up to the next leader as to how to proceed.

Since then, of course, events have overtaken the planning and we are where we are. Theresa May has insulated herself against the Brexiteers by appointing Davies, Fox, Johnson and Leadsom to the key ministries where they will, as likely as not, balls everything up making Article 50 ever more distant and then it is 2 years after that that we Brexit - that could conceiveably be, oh I don't know, 10 years hence.

At which point any mandate from the referendum will be worthless because the country will have evolved once again, many of the aged Brexit voters will be dead and the next cohort of youngsters will sway the vote, Bregretters or no Bregretters (although once they realise that our borders will remain open and we'll still have to pay lots of money to the EU while abiding by rules we have had no vote for or influence on to access the Single Market there could well be millions of them).

No PM will want to rush headlong into the economic armgeddon that Brexit will deliver and no PM will want to be the one history nails as having completely wrecked Britain's economy and influence in the world. So they won't.

I'm very disappointed by the vote, the campaigning, the result, the division it caused, the abuse, the violence and the racism it has legitimised but I've a feeling the Leavers are going to be even more disappointed by the eventual outcome because they've been sold a pup and even if it was possible to deliver all that has been promised, and it isn't and it never has been, there's no real political or economic reasons to actually do it. So they won't.

And it'll all be the fault of Fox, Davies, Johnson and Leadsom. They've been done up like kippers but they are either too dumb to realise it yet or have had no choice but to acquiesce and hope that something turns up to save their miserable skins.
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Rollo Tomasi



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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:47 pm

I'm pretty much sure that Acora doesn't need to worry just yet. Your previous predictions have been so wide of the mark that we Brexiteers will be delighted by this latest incite.

I'm still awaiting Armageddon.
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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sat Jul 30, 2016 2:03 pm

I'm still waiting for Article 50.

Not holding my breath though.
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Rollo Tomasi



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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:15 pm

What you continually fail to comment on is the distain for the EU shown by many of the member states.

Brexit has left the door ajar and be under no illusion other countries will follow.

The German and French elections next year might enlighten you.
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Hugh Watt



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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:19 pm

Rollo Tomasi wrote:
I'm pretty much sure that Acora doesn't need to worry just yet. Your previous predictions have been so wide of the mark that we Brexiteers will be delighted by this latest incite.

I'm still awaiting Armageddon.

Don't it won't happen because we aren't going to properly leave. You don't seriously think a serious decision like this would have been left to the Great British public, fat chance. Negotiations will be all about maintaining access to the single market with as little damage as possible.

We've already been told that Brexit won't make a damn of a difference to immigration and we aren't going to save £350 million a week. It took a couple of hours for that to come out.
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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:37 pm

Hugh Watt wrote:
Rollo Tomasi wrote:
I'm pretty much sure that Acora doesn't need to worry just yet. Your previous predictions have been so wide of the mark that we Brexiteers will be delighted by this latest incite.

I'm still awaiting Armageddon.

Don't it won't happen because we aren't going to properly leave. You don't seriously think a serious decision like this would have been left to the Great British public, fat chance. Negotiations will be all about maintaining access to the single market with as little damage as possible.

We've already been told that Brexit won't make a damn of a difference to immigration and we aren't going to save £350 million a week. It took a couple of hours for that to come out.


If the UK isn't going to leave "properly" (whatever that means) then what are you so worried about?

Of course Article 50 will be invoked and the UK will leave... What, you think that all those that voted for it are just going to forget it ever happened?



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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:35 pm

Anybody who has been upset by the odd pie chart will be freaked right out by this venn diagram!

That's no reason not to share it though because it illustrates the complexities Brexit will have to unravel very nicely.

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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:48 pm

Rollo Tomasi wrote:
What you continually fail to comment on is the distain for the EU shown by many of the member states.

Brexit has left the door ajar and be under no illusion other countries will follow.

The German and French elections next year might enlighten you.

I can't speak for France but Germany will be nailed on remainers. Like UKIP, the AfD do "well" in local and state elections but when it comes to the real thing.........

Don't be too confident that other EU member states will follow. They are all watching the UK. At present, a perfect advert for others to remain!


Last edited by Moist_Von_Lipwig on Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mouldyoldgoat
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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:54 pm

Hugh Watt wrote:
mouldyoldgoat wrote:
As far as I am concerned Thatcher, Cameron and Labour all have something in common.

Thatcher sorted out Britain after Labour fecked up the country by letting the unions run riot without as much as a 'please stop.'

And before anyone starts on about how she did it, I don’t give a FU CK!

I saw my Father sick with worry when I was a kid and almost lose his job when he did the right thing and the union at work turned on him because it suited them.

They didn’t give a FU CK that he had a wife and family to support after he had paid his subs to them for over 20 years. They abandoned him. It was the company that stood by him.

I have had to deal with unions and their petty rules all my working life.

Not all unions are bad but the ones I have had to deal with and their reps, I wouldn’t piss on them if they were on fire.

As for Blair in 1997 and that cnut of a chancellor of his, I had done as I was asked by the Tories and started a private pension for my old age. Those bastards took so much out of it that it is worth nothing. In fact I have not long ago been told how much my pension is worth a month when it comes out in 2 years time ( I was aiming to retire at 55). I will be lucky to get £800 – 900 a month before tax. I can’t now.

Cameron sorted out Britain after Labour fecked up the country by spending all the money and leaving us almost bankrupt.

As for article 50 I don't recall anyone on the leave side saying that they would invoke it the day after the referendum if we voted to go. But if someone can find such a statement then please point me in the right direction.

Also people going on about how nothing has been done about said article and how it won't be until 2019 before we leave, well yes, that is correct if it is triggered in 2017 because it is stated that it will take 2 years to sort out.

SFD you are right Cameron didn't think he would lose so he and his Government put nothing in motion if they didn't get the decision they wanted.

So you as remainers want the Government to invoke article 50 now without any preparation for the work to be done just to say we told you so if it goes tits up.

So much for the well being of the country and the union you keep going on about that you care for.

Mouldy the National debt  has doubled under Cameron. He led us into a triple dip recession, we are the only nation other than Greece in the EU that real wages are still declining, growth has still not risen to pre 2008 rates

The fact the unions have been weakened has led to the likes of Sports Direct being allowed to treat their staff like cattle.

It was Cameron who said that article 50 was supposed to be invoked on the morning of the result, whether or not it wasn't is moot. That's what he told the electorate.

Surely we had a contingency plan.....oh we didn't

And what would the national debt be if labour had carried on in power with their spend, spend, spend policies? Double what it is now? Triple? Quadruple? 10x?
I would say that is something to be thankful for.

The triple dip and wages is down to the mismanagement of the economy by labour before Cameron took over.
As for growth I believe it has been more than any euro zone country since 2008.
I don't expect there being many countries in the world that have reached 2008 rates.

You will always get companies that will exploit their workers and I would say it is a combination of weak unions and weak laws.

If it was Cameron who said that article 50 was supposed to be invoked on the morning of the result then how is that the fault of leavers?
The lack of a contingency plan is down to Cameron. We have a new PM and a new team so it is not their fault. Its their job to sort it all out now.

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Rollo Tomasi



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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:15 pm

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:
Rollo Tomasi wrote:
What you continually fail to comment on is the distain for the EU shown by many of the member states.

Brexit has left the door ajar and be under no illusion other countries will follow.

The German and French elections next year might enlighten you.

I can't speak for France but Germany will be nailed on remainers. Like UKIP, the AfD do "well" in local and state elections but when it comes to the real thing.........

Don't be too confident that other EU member states will follow. They are all watching the UK, at present, a perfect advert for others to remain!

May I remind you that the whole raison d'etre of UKIP was for the country to withdraw from the EU. I think they won the 'real thing' don't you?
(Please don't fall back on the Article 50 excuse again. It's early days).

The German people will not go on accepting the bailing out of Greece and Italy. Add in the occasional terrorist attack and the people's views can change overnight.

You only have to look at Trump to see that anything's possible in today's politics.
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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:17 pm

That, my dear boy, was/is the contingency plan!
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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:46 pm

Rollo Tomasi wrote:
Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:
Rollo Tomasi wrote:
What you continually fail to comment on is the distain for the EU shown by many of the member states.

Brexit has left the door ajar and be under no illusion other countries will follow.

The German and French elections next year might enlighten you.

I can't speak for France but Germany will be nailed on remainers. Like UKIP, the AfD do "well" in local and state elections but when it comes to the real thing.........

Don't be too confident that other EU member states will follow. They are all watching the UK, at present, a perfect advert for others to remain!

May I remind you that the whole raison d'etre of UKIP was for the country to withdraw from the EU. I think they won the 'real thing' don't you?
(Please don't fall back on the Article 50 excuse again. It's early days).

The German people will not go on accepting the bailing out of Greece and Italy. Add in the occasional terrorist attack and the people's views can change overnight.

You only have to look at Trump to see that anything's possible in today's politics.

I suppose it depends on what a person's definition (meaning) of what "won (what?)" is.

Overall, they will.

More anti immigration of "the wrong sort" or "anti Angie's immigration policy" than anti EU.


As for Trump, yes, but what has he done so far? However, should he get elected, how many of his "promises" will actually be delivered?


As for Article 50, the longer it is delayed, the happier I will be. Yes, a majority voted out. Ok, I accept that.

Probably the most important "politically related" event in most people's lifetime yet the main Brexiters have run away and the rest of parliament have gone on holiday!

Do you really believe that Article 50 will be invoked? And, if so, everything will be hunky dory?

Do you really believe that the people who have the most to lose (the money men) will let it happen?

What I would like to see happen is that a deal is struck over the main issues. Not just for the UK, but for all member states.

I'd also like to see Junker gone (how about him being replaced by Cameron - just a thought).

I think a post on here (I can't find the original post) stated that the problem with sea bass stocks (commercial fishing and limits on shore angler catches) were all the fault of the EU. Now I know it's not so. The ROI have banned commercial fishing (and kept a limit on shore catches) and their stocks are increasing.

Also, the smoking ban (I know there is a difference of opinion between smokers and non smokers regardless). Why can I legally still smoke in some pubs over here whereas you can't?
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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:22 am

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:
Rollo Tomasi wrote:
Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:
Rollo Tomasi wrote:
What you continually fail to comment on is the distain for the EU shown by many of the member states.

Brexit has left the door ajar and be under no illusion other countries will follow.

The German and French elections next year might enlighten you.

I can't speak for France but Germany will be nailed on remainers. Like UKIP, the AfD do "well" in local and state elections but when it comes to the real thing.........

Don't be too confident that other EU member states will follow. They are all watching the UK, at present, a perfect advert for others to remain!

May I remind you that the whole raison d'etre of UKIP was for the country to withdraw from the EU. I think they won the 'real thing' don't you?
(Please don't fall back on the Article 50 excuse again. It's early days).

The German people will not go on accepting the bailing out of Greece and Italy. Add in the occasional terrorist attack and the people's views can change overnight.

You only have to look at Trump to see that anything's possible in today's politics.

I suppose it depends on what a person's definition (meaning) of what "won (what?)" is.

Overall, they will.

More anti immigration of "the wrong sort" or "anti Angie's immigration policy" than anti EU.


As for Trump, yes, but what has he done so far? However, should he get elected, how many of his "promises" will actually be delivered?


As for Article 50, the longer it is delayed, the happier I will be. Yes, a majority voted out. Ok, I accept that.

Probably the most important "politically related" event in most people's lifetime yet the main Brexiters have run away and the rest of parliament have gone on holiday!

Do you really believe that Article 50 will be invoked? And, if so, everything will be hunky dory?

Do you really believe that the people who have the most to lose (the money men) will let it happen?

What I would like to see happen is that a deal is struck over the main issues. Not just for the UK, but for all member states.

I'd also like to see Junker gone (how about him being replaced by Cameron - just a thought).

I think a post on here (I can't find the original post) stated that the problem with sea bass stocks (commercial fishing and limits on shore angler catches) were all the fault of the EU. Now I know it's not so. The ROI have banned commercial fishing (and kept a limit on shore catches) and their stocks are increasing.

Also, the smoking ban (I know there is a difference of opinion between smokers and non smokers regardless). Why can I legally still smoke in some pubs over here whereas you can't?

I would say the main Brexiters have not run away. Johnson, Fox and Leadsom are in the government. Gove has been kicked into the long grass . As for the rest of parliament going on holiday, they always do at this time of year.

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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:59 am

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Anybody who has been upset by the odd pie chart will be freaked right out by this venn diagram!

That's no reason not to share it though because it illustrates the complexities Brexit will have to unravel very nicely.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


It also illustrates the complete absurdity that is 'Europe' that has to be dealt with everyday.
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Rollo Tomasi



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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:18 am

Oh what a tangled web you weave when first you practice to deceive. Which just about sums up the EU.

We were sold a lie in 1975 and have been ever since.

It was a Common Market, a trading group, nothing else.

I don't want to be part of a United States of Europe. Not for me or our children.



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Graiser

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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:05 am

mouldyoldgoat wrote:
As far as I am concerned Thatcher, Cameron and Labour all have something in common.

Thatcher sorted out Britain after Labour fecked up the country by letting the unions run riot without as much as a 'please stop.'

And before anyone starts on about how she did it, I don’t give a FU CK!

[/b]100% agreement on this, the unions were shafting the country and they're now suffering the fall out from that and their latest tactic of propping up Corbyn as a future PM, shows how their contempt for the British public and working class has not significantly changed

I saw my Father sick with worry when I was a kid and almost lose his job when he did the right thing and the union at work turned on him because it suited them.

They didn’t give a FU CK that he had a wife and family to support after he had paid his subs to them for over 20 years. They abandoned him. It was the company that stood by him.

I have had to deal with unions and their petty rules all my working life.

Not all unions are bad but the ones I have had to deal with and their reps, I wouldn’t piss on them if they were on fire.

Amen to that

As for Blair in 1997 and that cnut of a chancellor of his, I had done as I was asked by the Tories and started a private pension for my old age. Those bastards took so much out of it that it is worth nothing. In fact I have not long ago been told how much my pension is worth a month when it comes out in 2 years time ( I was aiming to retire at 55). I will be lucky to get £800 – 900 a month before tax. I can’t now.

Tends to be ignored by the Labour party's finest but that twat Brown and his attack on pensions caused a lot of angst with Labour voters, I haven't voted Labour since, the bloke and his mate Blair were closet Tories imo

Cameron sorted out Britain after Labour fecked up the country by spending all the money and leaving us almost bankrupt.

I suppose that's why he considers one of his main successes as Gay marriage rights, says it all really and before a posting bash comes along, if anybody can prioritise that success above the economy and a lack of an EU voted out contingency plan then good luck with that.

As for article 50 I don't recall anyone on the leave side saying that they would invoke it the day after the referendum if we voted to go. But if someone can find such a statement then please point me in the right direction.

Also people going on about how nothing has been done about said article and how it won't be until 2019 before we leave, well yes, that is correct if it is triggered in 2017 because it is stated that it will take 2 years to sort out.

SFD you are right Cameron didn't think he would lose so he and his Government put nothing in motion if they didn't get the decision they wanted.

So you as remainers want the Government to invoke article 50 now without any preparation for the work to be done just to say we told you so if it goes tits up.

So much for the well being of the country and the union you keep going on about that you care for.

I voted for yes for the common market in the seventies not the corrupt undemocratic piss pot of an outfit we have now, so it was a resounding NO this time round and nothing's changed as far as I'm concerned


Last edited by Graiser on Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Hugh Watt



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PostSubject: Re: EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...   Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:20 am

mouldyoldgoat wrote:
Hugh Watt wrote:
mouldyoldgoat wrote:
As far as I am concerned Thatcher, Cameron and Labour all have something in common.

Thatcher sorted out Britain after Labour fecked up the country by letting the unions run riot without as much as a 'please stop.'

And before anyone starts on about how she did it, I don’t give a FU CK!

I saw my Father sick with worry when I was a kid and almost lose his job when he did the right thing and the union at work turned on him because it suited them.

They didn’t give a FU CK that he had a wife and family to support after he had paid his subs to them for over 20 years. They abandoned him. It was the company that stood by him.

I have had to deal with unions and their petty rules all my working life.

Not all unions are bad but the ones I have had to deal with and their reps, I wouldn’t piss on them if they were on fire.

As for Blair in 1997 and that cnut of a chancellor of his, I had done as I was asked by the Tories and started a private pension for my old age. Those bastards took so much out of it that it is worth nothing. In fact I have not long ago been told how much my pension is worth a month when it comes out in 2 years time ( I was aiming to retire at 55). I will be lucky to get £800 – 900 a month before tax. I can’t now.

Cameron sorted out Britain after Labour fecked up the country by spending all the money and leaving us almost bankrupt.

As for article 50 I don't recall anyone on the leave side saying that they would invoke it the day after the referendum if we voted to go. But if someone can find such a statement then please point me in the right direction.

Also people going on about how nothing has been done about said article and how it won't be until 2019 before we leave, well yes, that is correct if it is triggered in 2017 because it is stated that it will take 2 years to sort out.

SFD you are right Cameron didn't think he would lose so he and his Government put nothing in motion if they didn't get the decision they wanted.

So you as remainers want the Government to invoke article 50 now without any preparation for the work to be done just to say we told you so if it goes tits up.

So much for the well being of the country and the union you keep going on about that you care for.

Mouldy the National debt  has doubled under Cameron. He led us into a triple dip recession, we are the only nation other than Greece in the EU that real wages are still declining, growth has still not risen to pre 2008 rates

The fact the unions have been weakened has led to the likes of Sports Direct being allowed to treat their staff like cattle.

It was Cameron who said that article 50 was supposed to be invoked on the morning of the result, whether or not it wasn't is moot. That's what he told the electorate.

Surely we had a contingency plan.....oh we didn't

And what would the national debt be if labour had carried on in power with their spend, spend, spend policies? Double what it is now? Triple? Quadruple? 10x?
I would say that is something to be thankful for.

The triple dip and wages is down to the mismanagement of the economy by labour before Cameron took over.
As for growth I believe it has been more than any euro zone country since 2008.
I don't expect there being many countries in the world that have reached 2008 rates.

You will always get companies that will exploit their workers and I would say it is a combination of weak unions and weak laws.

If it was Cameron who said that article 50 was supposed to be invoked on the morning of the result then how is that the fault of leavers?
The lack of a contingency plan is down to Cameron. We have a new PM and a new team so it is not their fault. Its their job to sort it all out now.

It isn't the fault of the leavers, but you'd expect leadership at least. What is the plan Where are they now? You only have to look at the dreadful fudging of the third runway at Heathrow to see how inept this Government is taking major decisions.

Blaming Labour for the economy was growing is crass, the crash was a result of sub prime lending under the astute chancellorship of Alistair darling the economy was back in growth
That was until the Conservatives got the axe out.

That the deficit isn't fixed suggests either Osbornes time in charge of the nations finances was a complete failure or the deficit wasn't that important in the first place.
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