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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:39 pm

Amsterdamage wrote:
You look like a teacher, anyway just watch the movie and just maybe you'll be informed enough to join the debate.

Watch a bullshit proganda movie already proven to be massively misleading and I'll be better informed? No. Quite the reverse - and watching it has hardly done you any good, has it?

And just take "teacher" out of that sentence and reflect upon it... Replace with, say, "educated wanker" or any other bunch of people you have a low opinion of... "Immigrants" maybe. Who/what does that remind you of?

"You look like one; you must be one"?

This is a low-rent, braindead version of Pol Pot's Year Zero where people were executed in their millions because they wore spectacles and, therefore, looked like they might have been teachers. It all fits the premise that educated wankers are a threat because they, er, are! Innit!

It's also reminiscent to cries of "death to the Infidel" just because they are different.

And what is wrong with being a teacher, anyway?
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:47 pm

Amsterdamage wrote:
You look like a teacher, anyway just watch the movie and just maybe you'll be informed enough to join the debate.

Better informed by bullshit propaganda made by a climate change denier?

Who are you going to bring in next? A creationist?
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Dougie

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:51 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:01 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
I think the EU is largely responsible for the longest period of peacetime Europe has ever seen: you don't.

Spoken like a 24 year old.

I served in the BAOR in the early 60's the same time as the 'Cuban Missile Crisis' in 1962. Those mighty "Common Marketer's Belgium, France, West Germany, Italy, Luxembourg and Holland had little impact during those years - in fact the only soldiers I saw were some Germans camped in woods near Lubeck. Meanwhile, the RAF V Bomber fleet was spread out all over the country in case of attack. The British, Yanks, some Canadians and French were only expected to last out 2 weeks against the attacking Warsaw Pact countries before being overrun. However, in those 2 weeks we hoped to gain time so massive and better equipped forces could bolster our depleted units.

That's how it was pal.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:17 pm

I missed that war though. When did it occur? Where did the battles take place?

Besides which there has been war with Yugoslavia, previously, and Ukraine, now, being the most obvious examples.

"There has been no war between EU members" would have been saying much the same thing but would have kept the pedants at bay. I should have known better and said that.
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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:56 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Amsterdamage wrote:
You look like a teacher, anyway just watch the movie and just maybe you'll be informed enough to join the debate.

Watch a bullshit proganda movie already proven to be massively misleading and I'll be better informed? No. Quite the reverse - and watching it has hardly done you any good, has it?

And just take "teacher" out of that sentence and reflect upon it... Replace with, say, "educated wanker" or any other bunch of people you have a low opinion of... "Immigrants" maybe. Who/what does that remind you of?

"You look like one; you must be one"?

This is a low-rent, braindead version of Pol Pot's Year Zero where people were executed in their millions because they wore spectacles and, therefore, looked like they might have been teachers. It all fits the premise that educated wankers are a threat because they, er, are! Innit!

It's also reminiscent to cries of "death to the Infidel" just because they are different.

And what is wrong with being a teacher, anyway?

You've been implying that I'm a racist and xenophobe for months now hence I refuse to debate with you. Your refusal to even read the other side of the argument renders you as a close minded bigot who has the neck to lecture all and sundry on your version of reality. And you get upset when I say you look like a teacher. lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:03 pm

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:
https://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/brexit-the-movie-review-sam-kriss-martin-durkin

More of a review of the audience that watched the premiere than of the film itself, could have been written by Abul Franza himself, he likes a label.
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Moist_Von_Lipwig

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:09 pm

Hugh Midde wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
I think the EU is largely responsible for the longest period of peacetime Europe has ever seen: you don't.

Spoken like a 24 year old.

I served in the BAOR in the early 60's the same time as the 'Cuban Missile Crisis' in 1962. Those mighty "Common Marketer's Belgium, France, West Germany, Italy, Luxembourg and Holland had little impact during those years - in fact the only soldiers I saw were some Germans camped in woods near Lubeck. Meanwhile, the RAF V Bomber fleet was spread out all over the country in case of attack. The British, Yanks, some Canadians and French were only expected to last out 2 weeks against the attacking Warsaw Pact countries before being overrun. However, in those 2 weeks we hoped to gain time so massive and better equipped forces could bolster our depleted units.

That's how it was pal.

I was there in the 80s. The Warsaw Pact was intact (infact one of my friends is an ex DDR soldier - he was gaurding the Berlin wall the night it came down! Some interesting stories... but I digress) and seen as a real threat.

Now we have an EU which contains many of those ex Warsaw Pact countries. We are all now mates and therefore more secured against a european war than we have ever been.

I am quite happy that I can count UKers, Irish, Poles, Lithuanians, Czechs, Slovakians, Portugese, Spaniards, Italians, French, Dutch and Germans among my circle of  friends and aquaintances. We don't always agree with each other but we do get on.

I enjoy learning about them, their history, culture, food and drink etc.

You would not believe how much respect they have for the UK too.

The last thing I want to do is to isolate myself from them and only drink in the Irish bars!

Little UK/Britain/England..... No thanks.

REMAIN!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] to add: I also have other friends and aquaintances from outside the UK.
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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:17 pm

I think the biggest misunderstanding in this debate is that come June 24th the walls go up as we Brexit, interpol refuses to talk to us, we round everybody up from Europe and deport them, it's Gaurdian led (and Gaurdian reader led) bollox. Not much will change very quickly and anyone who is making a worthwhile contribution to the country would be invited to stay, I'd expect the same to apply to Brits working in Europe. Don't believe the scaremongering we will always have migration to this country just have a different slant than the wage lowering influx of unskilled labour we have at the moment.
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Czarcasm

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:22 pm

My missus is a teacher. She's voting OUT.

I'm still truly undecided. There are far too many grey areas and I can see big pro's and an equal amount of big possible cons. Though when people so forcefully try and ram their view down others throats, it sways me to simply vote opposite to them to nullify and negate their vote.

Childish? Probably.
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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:29 pm

Amsterdamage wrote:
I think the biggest misunderstanding in this debate is that come June 24th the walls go up as we Brexit, interpol refuses to talk to us, we round everybody up from Europe and deport them, it's Gaurdian led (and Gaurdian reader led) bollox. Not much will change very quickly and anyone who is making a worthwhile contribution to the country would be invited to stay, I'd expect the same to apply to Brits working in Europe. Don't believe the scaremongering we will always have migration to this country just have a different slant than the wage lowering influx of unskilled labour we have at the moment.

Minimum 2 years of negotiation (could be longer).

It's funny but the Germans say the same about the "wage lowering influx of unskilled labour".

I then ask them how many Germans (not students) they see working in the fast food outlets, cleaning the toilets, cleaning the streets, cleaning offices. I then ask them if they would do a similar job. The answer is always no!

A friend of mine here is on German unemployment benefit. He says that he would never get out of bed and take a minimum wage job! Plenty of immigrants WILL take such jobs!

Is it the same in the UK?
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:34 pm

Amsterdamage wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Amsterdamage wrote:
You look like a teacher, anyway just watch the movie and just maybe you'll be informed enough to join the debate.

Watch a bullshit proganda movie already proven to be massively misleading and I'll be better informed? No. Quite the reverse - and watching it has hardly done you any good, has it?

And just take "teacher" out of that sentence and reflect upon it... Replace with, say, "educated wanker" or any other bunch of people you have a low opinion of... "Immigrants" maybe. Who/what does that remind you of?

"You look like one; you must be one"?

This is a low-rent, braindead version of Pol Pot's Year Zero where people were executed in their millions because they wore spectacles and, therefore, looked like they might have been teachers. It all fits the premise that educated wankers are a threat because they, er, are! Innit!

It's also reminiscent to cries of "death to the Infidel" just because they are different.

And what is wrong with being a teacher, anyway?

You've been implying that I'm a racist and xenophobe for months now hence I refuse to debate with you. Your refusal to even read the other side of the argument renders you as a close minded bigot who has the neck to lecture all and sundry on your version of reality. And you get upset when I say you look like a teacher. lol!

I have not being calling you a racist or xenophobe. I have been pointing out that many of the things you say are popular with racists and xenophobes and that much of what Farage & co say is racist and xenophobic.

I don't know you. I don't know what you are. I do know what you say on here and much of that sends out, at best, mixed messages.

So don't blame me for what you have said.

I once offered this advice to Dane: Avoid being called a prick by not acting like one. (Which to his credit he appears to have followed lately - so well done to Dane.)

A subtle variant of that might be worth consideration.

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:46 pm

Hugh Midde wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
I think the EU is largely responsible for the longest period of peacetime Europe has ever seen: you don't.

Spoken like a 24 year old.

I served in the BAOR in the early 60's the same time as the 'Cuban Missile Crisis' in 1962. Those mighty "Common Marketer's Belgium, France, West Germany, Italy, Luxembourg and Holland had little impact during those years - in fact the only soldiers I saw were some Germans camped in woods near Lubeck. Meanwhile, the RAF V Bomber fleet was spread out all over the country in case of attack. The British, Yanks, some Canadians and French were only expected to last out 2 weeks against the attacking Warsaw Pact countries before being overrun. However, in those 2 weeks we hoped to gain time so massive and better equipped forces could bolster our depleted units.

That's how it was pal.

One aspect that I found very puzzling in the "EU kept the peace for 60 years" statement when applied to the Brexit argument is that Britain wasn't in the EU until 1972,which by my maths would make a period of 27 years from the end of WW2.Surely if the peace was kept for all that time without British presence within the EU, then our presence or absence did not/does not matter and therefore the argument is an irrelevant piece of nonsense?
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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:18 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

So AFC Bournemouth supports remain...

Seriously... who cares?

I'd much rather Argyle stayed silent on this, and most other political issues, than expressed any sort of preference at all so, for once, well done to them for not telling us anything!
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:44 pm

On the other hand I am delighted that respected, independent organisations crunch numbers and write reports.

The IFS, NIESR and LSE issued a joint statement from where this is taken..

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

It could not be clearer: voting Leave will be an economic mistake.

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Hugh Midde

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:10 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
I missed that war though. When did it occur? Where did the battles take place?

Besides which there has been war with Yugoslavia, previously, and Ukraine, now, being the most obvious examples.

"There has been no war between EU members" would have been saying much the same thing but would have kept the pedants at bay. I should have known better and said that.

There was no war. we were a deterrent against the westward march of the Soviet Union - and it worked. Further deterrents were the V Bombers, the Thor Missile systems scattered around the country on disused (for flying)RAF airfields. Another deterrent that was the Polaris surface-to-air missile carrying subs and now their successors the Trident class.

As for some of your EU States. Many were under the yoke of the Soviets - just look what happened to Hungary in 1956. Then there's Poland, Romania and so on. Their release from tyranny came about through the collapse of the USSR and local uprisings - bugger all to do with the EU. As for the Ukraine, What do you think caused the Putin to order the capture of the Crimea? If the Ukraine was to eventually gain full EU membership then the last thing the Russian military wants is EU military aircraft on its many airfields or EU ships entering the Black Sea and using the dockyards and anchorage at Sevastopol. Putin must have sleepless nights seeing former client states joining land hungry Brussels.

As for Yugoslavia, the binding together of such diverse nations was never going to work when you consider that during WW2 the Croats were very pro German to the extent that many joined the Nazi military. However, the communists under Tito gained control and things moved along until Tito's death and the fall of communism. As for Kosovo, I believe it was Albanians and Serbs having a falling out and a Nato force under American Wesley Clarke and Britain's Mike Jackson interceded. Oh, and I believe a Russian force with KFOR on their vehicles nip in pronto and captured Pristina Airport. Creature of habit are our Russian friends.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:13 pm

Hugh Midde wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
I missed that war though. When did it occur? Where did the battles take place?

Besides which there has been war with Yugoslavia, previously, and Ukraine, now, being the most obvious examples.

"There has been no war between EU members" would have been saying much the same thing but would have kept the pedants at bay. I should have known better and said that.

There was no war. we were a deterrent against the westward march of the Soviet Union - and it worked. Further deterrents were the V Bombers,    the Thor Missile systems scattered around the country on disused (for flying)RAF airfields. Another deterrent that was the Polaris surface-to-air missile carrying subs and now their successors the Trident class.

As for some of your EU States. Many were under the yoke of the Soviets - just look what happened to Hungary in 1956. Then there's Poland, Romania and so on. Their release from tyranny came about through the collapse of the USSR and local uprisings - bugger all to do with the EU. As for the Ukraine, What do you think caused the Putin to order the capture of the Crimea? If the Ukraine was to eventually gain full EU membership then the last thing the Russian military wants is EU military aircraft on its many airfields or EU ships entering the Black Sea and using the dockyards and anchorage at Sevastopol. Putin must have sleepless nights seeing former client states joining land hungry Brussels.

As for Yugoslavia, the binding together of such diverse nations was never going to work when you consider that during WW2 the Croats were very pro German to the extent that many joined the Nazi military. However, the communists under Tito gained control and things moved along until Tito's death and the fall of communism. As for Kosovo, I believe it was Albanians and Serbs having a falling out and a Nato force under American Wesley Clarke and Britain's Mike Jackson interceded. Oh, and I believe a Russian force with KFOR on their vehicles nip in pronto and captured Pristina Airport. Creature of habit are our Russian friends.  

All of which were outside EU when the various conflicts happened.

Which was pretty much my, clumsily expressed, point from the outset.
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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:18 pm

You still trying to teach us Franza? Not reading any of it.
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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:22 pm

A (well almost - still a couple of days to go....) final question or two for you Brexiteers......

- Have you ever known a better time to be living in the UK? If not, which golden age would you like us to strive for after we have left?

- Regarding sovereignty, which laws do you want back from the EU?

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:30 pm

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:
A (well almost - still a couple of days to go....) final question or two for you Brexiteers......

- Have you ever known a better time to be living in the UK? If not, which golden age would you like us to strive for after we have left?

- Regarding sovereignty, which laws do you want back from the EU?


A) Are you having a camelopard? Austerity nearly killed my sister when she had to wait weeks for a life saving operation due to bed blocking. We are driving round potholes on A roads, you can't get a doctors appointment for 4 weeks and there are no police anywhere. Germany may be honeypot but Blighty isn't anymore. My missus was earning double what she is now in '91 during the recession. If you're looking for a golden age the last one was the fifties.

B) I don't want any laws as such "back" not sure what you mean however I would like to remove the costly and unelected EU parliament and go back to just the commons and lords and start reforming them. I havent voted for any of our meps, no one has to my knowledge, the whole concept of the EU is undemocratic. I also worry hugely that the European economy is failing and it will drag us down with them.
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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:32 pm

Czarcasm wrote:
My missus is a teacher. She's voting OUT.

I'm still truly undecided. There are far too many grey areas and I can see big pro's and an equal amount of big possible cons. Though when people so forcefully try and ram their view down others throats, it sways me to simply vote opposite to them to nullify and negate their vote.

Childish? Probably.

I really haven't got anything against teachers I just take exception to certain people who can dish the shite out and can't take it back, I'm sure you know what I mean. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:43 pm

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:


- Have you ever known a better time to be living in the UK?

Yet another selfish comment. Ask a Greek, Italian, Portuguese or a Spanish person the same question and you had best start running.

Unemployment averaging 24% and nearer 50% for the under 25's.

You are deluded if you think the EU troubles are solvable.

Still, so long as you're alright.

Germany are doing nicely but then they always were going to be.
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Moist_Von_Lipwig

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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:49 pm

Rollo Tomasi wrote:
Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:


- Have you ever known a better time to be living in the UK?

Yet another selfish comment. Ask a Greek, Italian, Portuguese or a Spanish person the same question and you had best start running.

Unemployment averaging 24% and nearer 50% for the under 25's.

You are deluded if you think the EU troubles are solvable.

Still, so long as you're alright.

Germany are doing nicely but then they always were going to be.

A selfish comment?????!!!!! LOL!

I'm asking you "Little UK/Britain/ England (ers). Not any other nation!

You leavers are the selfish ones!
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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:03 pm

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:
Rollo Tomasi wrote:
Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:


- Have you ever known a better time to be living in the UK?

Yet another selfish comment. Ask a Greek, Italian, Portuguese or a Spanish person the same question and you had best start running.

Unemployment averaging 24% and nearer 50% for the under 25's.

You are deluded if you think the EU troubles are solvable.

Still, so long as you're alright.

Germany are doing nicely but then they always were going to be.

A selfish comment?????!!!!! LOL!

I'm asking you "Little UK/Britain/ England (ers). Not any other nation!

You leavers are the selfish ones!

You're not really worth replying to because you're such an arrogant, stereotyping and self centred arsehole, in fact the personification of the people that you claim to despise.

Go and play with your Knackwurst. Is that Little Englander enough for you?
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PostSubject: Re: Brexit - Leave or Remain poll   Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:04 pm

Amsterdamage wrote:
Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:
A (well almost - still a couple of days to go....) final question or two for you Brexiteers......

- Have you ever known a better time to be living in the UK? If not, which golden age would you like us to strive for after we have left?

- Regarding sovereignty, which laws do you want back from the EU?


A) Are you having a camelopard? Austerity nearly killed my sister when she had to wait weeks for a life saving operation due to bed blocking. We are driving round potholes on A roads, you can't get a doctors appointment for 4 weeks and there are no police anywhere. Germany may be honeypot but Blighty isn't anymore. My missus was earning double what she is now in '91 during the recession. If you're looking for a golden age the last one was the fifties.

What has austerity got to do with the EU? Austerity was brought in by the elected UK goverment and can be changed by the UK government!

BTW, the roads, police etc are the same here. Despite what you might hear or read, Germany is no honeypot at the moment!

I'm sorry for your sister. I genuinely hope that she is ok.

I can't speak for the fifties so here are some that can..... [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


B) I don't want any laws as such "back" not sure what you mean however I would like to remove the costly and unelected EU parliament and go back to just the commons and lords and start reforming them. I havent voted for any of our meps, no one has to my knowledge, the whole concept of the EU is undemocratic. I also worry hugely that the European economy is failing and it will drag us down with them.


I don't understand how a fall in the euro would affect us any differently if we were in or out of the EU. I agree that the EU set up needs to be changed. It's up to us to force the politicians to change it!

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