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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:32 pm

They've just broadcast an interview with somebody, who I have named, who was there, who was an eyewitness and who heard it being shouted.

What more evidence could you possibly want?
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Angry

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:46 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
They've just broadcast an interview with somebody, who I have named, who was there, who was an eyewitness and who heard it being shouted.

What more evidence could you possibly want?

have you even looked? try channel 5 and sky news reports when they broadcast live for a start.

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Lord Melbury

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:47 pm

Very sad & disgusting that the usual suspects immediately jump on this tragic incident to try to score thinly veiled cheap political points.
A great shame that the same bastions of humanity couldn't see fit to condemn the perpetrator of the Orlando shootings a few days ago. I wonder why.
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PlymptonPilgrim
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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:50 pm

Guys, this is a terrible tragedy, a young woman has lost her life. Could the thread just respect her and not turn into the normal arguments with the usual suspects?

Thanks.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:50 pm

Have I looked at what?

Why would I need to anyway?

I've just seen the interview with the eyewitness who heard it being shouted again on Newsnight.

Maybe other eyewitnesses did not hear it - but this eyewitness definitely did.
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Angry

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:29 pm

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:
Guys, this is a terrible tragedy, a young woman has lost her life. Could the thread just respect her and not turn into the normal arguments with the usual suspects?

Thanks.

I merely wanted to point out that media outlets have reported from eye witnesses at the scene that put britain first or whatever it was wasn't shouted aswell,  that was pretty much it. whether the phrase actually was said or not i dont know but im sure in the next few days the picture will be clearer on that front. but the fact remains some reported that they didnt hear it at all and they witnessed the act.

there isn't anything to debate on that front or argue back on not from my end anyway and i dont think anything i said in three posts was in anyway disrespecting the mp or her murder or even coming close to that.
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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:36 am

Shocking RIP. I also agree totally with PP and Lord M.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:02 am

Now that Thomas Maim has been charged with the murder of Jo Cox we have to be careful about what we say because nobody wants to be in contempt of court, do we? I certainly do not.

However the denial that there was an extreme right-wing ideology motivating him given his alledged shouting of "Britain First" as he murdered Mrs Cox and him being shown in photographs on the Britain First FB page stood behind a Britain First banner from a demo of theirs in Dewsbury seems increasingly unlikely.

Obviously whether he shouted or what he shouted appears not to be conclusive enough for some, despite there being an eye-witness who heard it, and the pictures might be photo-shopped (that's what I would suggest if I was trying to deny their provenance anyway).

What is in no doubt whatsoever are the words he uttered in court this morning; when charged and asked his name Thomas Mair said "My name is death to traitors, freedom for Britain".

And mentioning any of this is in no way disrespectful to Mrs Cox or the horror of the attack that killed her but not admitting that she was assassinated by a white, English, presumably Christian as far as culture at least is concerned, Britain First supporting, definably extreme right-wing and self-proclaimed, terrorist does.
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Greenskin

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:02 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Now that Thomas Maim has been charged with the murder of Jo Cox we have to be careful about what we say because nobody wants to be in contempt of court, do we? I certainly do not.

However the denial that there was an extreme right-wing ideology motivating him given his alledged shouting of "Britain First" as he murdered Mrs Cox and him being shown in photographs on the Britain First FB page stood behind a Britain First banner from a demo of theirs in Dewsbury seems increasingly unlikely.

Obviously whether he shouted or what he shouted appears not to be conclusive enough for some, despite there being an eye-witness who heard it, and the pictures might be photo-shopped (that's what I would suggest if I was trying to deny their provenance anyway).

What is in no doubt whatsoever are the words he uttered in court this morning; when charged and asked his name Thomas Mair said "My name is death to traitors, freedom for Britain".

And mentioning any of this is in no way disrespectful to Mrs Cox or the horror of the attack that killed her but not admitting that she was assassinated by a white, English, presumably Christian as far as culture at least is concerned, Britain First supporting, definably extreme right-wing and self-proclaimed, terrorist does.

First of all, due condolences to the family and friends of Jo Cox, the biggest losers in this terrible tragedy- a husband and two young children are now entering a world of pain and loss which will almost certainly never be fully overcome.

On a more general basis, what point exactly are you trying to make by your obsession with the "Britain first" slogan that the man was shouting? Are you in some way connecting it to the general views of people who support an exit from Europe or saying that a right wing group sponsored the killing? Because the way it looks to me is that this guy had mental issues in the same way as people like Michael Ryan,the Norway shootings perpetrator, the Orlando killer etc etc. If you're trying to say that only right wingers commit atrocities, then Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot,the Baader Meinhoff group would seem to provide ample evidence to the contrary and on a pretty widespread scale. Please don't think that i'm defending extreme right wingers in any way-my own views are essentially apolitical but it seems to me that in this case by far the most important factor was the mental condition of this man rather than any political views he may have held.

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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:15 pm

Took the words out of my mouth Skinny Thanks/OK
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:18 pm

I don't recall much sympathy for the mental health status of the guys who killed Lee Rigby.

And what evidence has been presented that Thomas Mair suffered from any mental illness? Has there been any?
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:18 pm

Mental issues aside, the extreme left have always been every bit as violent as the extreme right, have a word with yourself Frank. Extremes in any walk of life are generally unadvisable.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:28 pm

Where have I said that extremism is advisable? Don't think I have.

In fact I think I'm the poster here identifying blatant extremism whilst others seems to be keen to make excuses for it or to deny that it exists which seems, to me, to be the truly extremist position.
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Greenskin

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:21 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
I don't recall much sympathy for the mental health status of the guys who killed Lee Rigby.

And what evidence has been presented that Thomas Mair suffered from any mental illness? Has there been any?

Yes,there has;

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And why bring "sympathy" into the discussion? It was not stated that sympathy should be forthcoming in any way, just pointing out that this guy obviously had some severe problems which equally obviously were the prime cause of this tragedy rather than any political affiliation, loathsome though that affiliation may be-plenty of extreme right [or left] wingers don't actually go around shooting their MP.I had no sympathy with the bloke who shot John Lennon or Lee Rigby's killers either-in the vernacular, nutters the lot of them,.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:51 pm

He didn't appear to be too depressed in court when he said: "I am a political activist."

However I am in no position to judge his state of mental wellness or otherwise and I am sure it'll be properly considered during his trial.

His politics, however, are all too clear and when a politician gets murdered by an activist in a far-right political movement shouting far right political slogans as he kills, and then repeats various other far-right political statements during the legal process and who has other far-right ties going back many years.

Well... it is hard to believe that there is no wider political significance to why he did what he did but it isn't my call to make.
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Lord Melbury

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:14 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Well... it is hard to believe that there is no wider political significance to why he did what he did but it isn't my call to make.
But you're going to make it anyway, time & time again, day after fuckin day, in every thread you can shoe-horn it into !

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Rollo Tomasi



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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:18 pm

Once again Saint Francis sprinkles a little bit of wriggle room with his opinions.

It reminds me of the Ron Atkinson quote, " I never comment on referees and I'm not going to break the habit of a lifetime for that prat".
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:06 pm

Lord Melbury wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Well... it is hard to believe that there is no wider political significance to why he did what he did but it isn't my call to make.
But you're going to make it anyway, time & time again, day after fuckin day, in every thread you can shoe-horn it into !  


Read this: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This murder hardly happened in a vacuum, did it?
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Elias

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:14 pm

Mp s have deserved the low opinion the public has of them......remember great theft ????

Known as the expenses scandal.
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Les Miserable

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:25 pm

Rollo Tomasi wrote:
Once again Saint Francis sprinkles a little bit of wriggle room with his opinions.

It reminds me of the Ron Atkinson quote, " I never comment on referees and I'm not going to break the habit of a lifetime for that prat".


cheers
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:28 pm

A low opinion is one thing but to be killed is another.

Especially when you consider that Jo Cox was not even an MP when the expenses scandal happened.








I've just discovered that between his arrest and court appearance Thomas Mair's mental health was assessed by 2 doctors both of whom said he was not mentally ill and was perfectly fit psychologically and able to appear in court.

So there is no valid mental ill health angle; only a right-wing terrorist one.
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PlymptonPilgrim
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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:36 pm

I'm sure the police investigation will reveal the truth behind this despicable crime. Although some people seemed to have made their minds up already without knowing any of the facts.
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Lord Melbury

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:42 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Now that Thomas Maim has been charged with the murder of Jo Cox we have to be careful about what we say because nobody wants to be in contempt of court, do we? I certainly do not.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
I've just discovered that between his arrest and court appearance Thomas Mair's mental health was assessed by 2 doctors both of whom said he was not mentally ill and was perfectly fit psychologically and able to appear in court.

So there is no valid mental ill health angle; only a right-wing terrorist one.
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Sir Francis Drake

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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:01 pm

Lord Melbury wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
Now that Thomas Maim has been charged with the murder of Jo Cox we have to be careful about what we say because nobody wants to be in contempt of court, do we? I certainly do not.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
I've just discovered that between his arrest and court appearance Thomas Mair's mental health was assessed by 2 doctors both of whom said he was not mentally ill and was perfectly fit psychologically and able to appear in court.

So there is no valid mental ill health angle; only a right-wing terrorist one.

I've made no statement about what he has or has not done only the due process as actioned by the court. If there was a mental ill health angle then he would not have been put in front of a court.

But the two doctors appointed by the court to assess his mental state have both said he is fine.

And if a far-right politcial activist being charged with stabbing, shooting and murdering a centre-left MP isn't terrorism then what is?

The supposed problem here is... what, exactly?
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Rollo Tomasi



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PostSubject: Re: MP Shot at constituency surgery   Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:38 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
I don't recall much sympathy for the mental health status of the guys who killed Lee Rigby.

You mean the two cannabis addicts who were awarded over £200,000 in legal aid to fight their case.
I don't recall much either.
Any ways, your sympathy would have been enough to sustain them.Bless.
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