Luggy's book

Has anyone read this yet?

The book is about 200 pages and he's managed to skip over his illustrious playing career (2 world cups. league championships and European Glory) in about 40 of them. I've not read that far into but it's threatening to turn into a sort of one-sided conversation with a bloke in the pub moaning bitterly about the people that have prevented him from being a success in life.

In fact he says him self in the intro: "my main reason for writing my life story is to set straight a few misconceptions"

This is typical regarding the quality of English and insight.

"It’s like the little boy in the sweetie shop having had a taste of something nice, only to have the door
slammed shut on you"

did he shoulder his fair share of the blame for his failure here 2nd time around? or did he use it to try and change history like they do on the farm concerning wrathall.

Haven't got that far, we've got to him being overlooked for the Dundee United job and his time at St Johnstone. There's no self awareness on his part that he might not have been experienced enough at that point its again someone else screwing him over, always seems to be someone elses fault.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Haven't got that far, we've got to him being overlooked for the Dundee United job and St Jon. There's no self awareness on his part that he might not have been experienced enough at that point its again someone else screwing him over, always seems to be someone elses fault.

he got both jobs though

Angry wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

Haven't got that far, we've got to him being overlooked for the Dundee United job and his time at St Johnstone. There's no self awareness on his part that he might not have been experienced enough at that point its again someone else screwing him over, always seems to be someone elses fault.

he got both jobs though

He didnt get the Dundee United job until 1998, I've havent got that far yet. I'm on about when he got overlooked in favour of Ivan Golac which would have been a surprise given that he'd (Golac) just left Torquay

Hugh Watt wrote:

Angry wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

Haven't got that far, we've got to him being overlooked for the Dundee United job and his time at St Johnstone. There's no self awareness on his part that he might not have been experienced enough at that point its again someone else screwing him over, always seems to be someone elses fault.

he got both jobs though

He didnt get the Dundee United job until 1998, I've havent got that far yet. I'm on about when he got overlooked in favour of Ivan Golac which would have been a surprise given that he'd (Golac) just left Torquay

ahh got you well i wont give you any more spoilers if your still reading it..

Keep us informed Hugh, but no late nights under the duvet with a torch.

I've always thought Luggy never accepted any failure as his fault. I get the impression Derek Adams is quite a different countryman. More on the humble/more balanced spectrum, regardless of his public rants at the footy.
I could never imagine Adams doing the "my way or the highway" routine.

I've read all of it. Could have been a little more in depth but a decent read nonetheless.

He takes full blame for the signings of Maclean and Walton, and reveals that they weren't properly scouted.

He wanted Marcel Seip sacked immediately after the incident at home to Charlton, and was dismayed that he was rewarded with a new 6k a week contract, which he felt undermined his standing in the eyes of the squad. He didn't even rate Seip as a player.

He blames Keith Todd for allowing Seip to play against us for Blackpool, and says it displayed his "naivety or complete lack of knowledge regarding football". He believes the Stapleton's thumbs-up to Seip was offensive to the Argyle team and supporters.

He invited Todd for a meal and drinks round his house one night and was told after the meal that he was being sacked, to which he told Todd to "feck off out of it"!

Despite being a nice man Paul Mariner had no concept of coaching and preparing teams in the English League. He didn't even know how to put a back four together in training.

The only board member to come out of it with any integrity was Tony Wrathrall, who continued to pump money into the club when no-one else would, and even calls him a "hero".

Stapelton also wrote a chapter, claims he had no control once Gardner and Todd took over and apparently Todd referred to him as an "irritant". They spent the money on new players in 2008 with the promise of £3 million from the Japanese, which never came, but they still found the money to buy out Phil Gill for £600k.

His story regarding Seip differs with Sturrock. He says Seip was playing through a double hernia problem and Sturrock broke an agreement to play him. He agreed with the fine for Seip for walking out but says Sturrock never asked for him to be sacked. He also says Todd leaked the photo of the thumbs-up as an attempt to undermine him.

Wrathrall says he was asked on the eve of the Rod Stewart concert to stump up £500k up front otherwise Stewart wouldn't perform, with the promise he would get his money back after. He never did at lists various different times he had to pump £100k into the club, once again with promises broken that he would get it back.

An excellent synopsis for those of us who have absolutely no intention of reading the book, thanks. Several people have commented on how Wrathall appears to emerge from that period in the clubs history as a genuine good guy who put his money where his mouth was. Maybe he'll be looked upon in a different light from now on by his detractors.

Thanks for that Plymstock.
Quite a few interesting points there.
For now:-

Quote :

He takes full blame for the signings of Maclean and Walton, and reveals that they weren't properly scouted.

He wanted Marcel Seip sacked immediately after the incident at home to Charlton, and was dismayed that he was rewarded with a new 6k a week contract, which he felt undermined his standing in the eyes of the squad. He didn't even rate Seip as a player.

At last. I wonder if he actually understands just how expensive those McClean/Walton mistakes were. What on earth was he doing spending so much money on such crap ? A four year stretch for Walton ? what was that all about ? Those two goons probably contributed a good £3million to the eventual debt mountain. Got that Luggy ?

And, yes, it was quite apparent to me he didn't rate Seip. He also didn't rate Timar, and made a laughing stock of him putting him on as a centre forward ssecond half substitute. Outrageous treatment of an innocent. He also didn't rate Halmosi, as he totally changed his role in the team, turning him into a tracking back workhorse. He didn't seem to rate anybody Holloway had used well. Bye bye Wotts ,bye bye Nalis, bye bye Abdou, Puncheon got half a game and shown the door.. the list is endless. Very dubious stuff.

Les Miserable wrote:

An excellent synopsis for those of us who have absolutely no intention of reading the book, thanks. Several people have commented on how Wrathall appears to emerge from that period in the clubs history as a genuine good guy who put his money where his mouth was. Maybe he'll be looked upon in a different light from now on by his detractors.

Are you chris webb in disguise?

Sir John Hawkins wrote:

Thanks for that Plymstock.
Quite a few interesting points there.
For now:-

Quote :

He takes full blame for the signings of Maclean and Walton, and reveals that they weren't properly scouted.

He wanted Marcel Seip sacked immediately after the incident at home to Charlton, and was dismayed that he was rewarded with a new 6k a week contract, which he felt undermined his standing in the eyes of the squad. He didn't even rate Seip as a player.

At last. I wonder if he actually understands just how expensive those McClean/Walton mistakes were. What on earth was he doing spending so much money on such crap ? A four year stretch for Walton ? what was that all about ? Those two goons probably contributed a good £3million to the eventual debt mountain. Got that Luggy ?

And, yes, it was quite apparent to me he didn't rate Seip. He also didn't rate Timar, he also didn't rate Halmosi, as he totally changed his role in the team, turning him into a tracking back workhorse. He didn't seem to rate anybody Holloway had used well. Bye bye Wotts ,bye bye Nalis, bye bye Abdou, Puncheon got half a game and shown the door.. the list is endless. Very dubious stuff.

He thought he could walk on water, instead he ruined the club and nearly bankruprted it too

Elias wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

An excellent synopsis for those of us who have absolutely no intention of reading the book, thanks. Several people have commented on how Wrathall appears to emerge from that period in the clubs history as a genuine good guy who put his money where his mouth was. Maybe he'll be looked upon in a different light from now on by his detractors.

Are you chris webb in disguise?

Wasn't he distraught at the return of Wrathall? Publicly at least.

Now toddle off to your nightshift......are you married?

And yes, well said Elias. Yet another wisting of Wrathers is ok. Who can forget Webb's shit on here with the on pitch appearance out of the blue, and the subsequent internet game playing.
And, there you go, who's back on the Board, as if nothing has happened, and looking to recouping monies, but dear old Wrathers. Totally innocent apparently.

I felt positive after reading about Wrathrall too, Sturrock has nothing to lose by being critical, he was happy to reveal how Stapleton, a former friend let him down so his points about Wrathrall seem believable. I was shocked when I heard he was returning to the board but it now seems he was the only board member actually doing anything to keep the club afloat.

Sturrock also criticises the effort level of modern day footballers below Premiership level, with a rare exception being Craig Noone, who worked his socked off constantly and even asked if he would be paid during the summer! He also praises the effort levels of Bolasie, Mackie and Reda Johnson. There was also an interesting anecdote about Mpenza missing a training session due to a mishap with Viagra...

Sir John Hawkins wrote:

Thanks for that Plymstock.
Quite a few interesting points there.
For now:-

Quote :

He takes full blame for the signings of Maclean and Walton, and reveals that they weren't properly scouted.

He wanted Marcel Seip sacked immediately after the incident at home to Charlton, and was dismayed that he was rewarded with a new 6k a week contract, which he felt undermined his standing in the eyes of the squad. He didn't even rate Seip as a player.

At last. I wonder if he actually understands just how expensive those McClean/Walton mistakes were. What on earth was he doing spending so much money on such crap ? A four year stretch for Walton ? what was that all about ? Those two goons probably contributed a good £3million to the eventual debt mountain. Got that Luggy ?

And, yes, it was quite apparent to me he didn't rate Seip. He also didn't rate Timar, and made a laughing stock of him putting him on as a centre forward ssecond half substitute. Outrageous treatment of an innocent. He also didn't rate Halmosi, as he totally changed his role in the team, turning him into a tracking back workhorse. He didn't seem to rate anybody Holloway had used well. Bye bye Wotts ,bye bye Nalis, bye bye Abdou, Puncheon got half a game and shown the door.. the list is endless. Very dubious stuff.

That was the most disappointing feature of the book, no mention of what happened in the Stack/Marin/Puncheon fiasco or of what he really thought of the fire sale of 2007 and the reasoning behind it. Stapleton also makes a contribution to the book [rather surprisingly since by all accounts he spent a lot of Sturrock's second spell trying to get him sacked]-usual rewriting of history crap about all of the transfer money being reinvested. Nonsense about Seip not being big enough to play at centre back and how other managers agreed that him and Timar were major weak links-certainly didn't appear that way in comparison to what came after. Wrathall comes out smelling of roses and also makes a contribution to the book. Confirms the story about Emile's erection "problem"-presumably it must have subsided by the time he scored all those goals the season after, unless he was finding some really novel uses for his wanger. Wouldn't describe the book as a total waste of money but was left with the feeling that only half the story was being told. Disappointing.

Tony wrathall is a genuine Argyle Fan a proper old school fan, a mate of mine knows him really well he loves the club take it from me its true, and has you know i generally praise nothing about Brent or the freakshow surrounding him! Wrathall has put a lot of money into Argyle over the years he is no Merchant Banker like Jimmy!

We can all do that one Suffers. I knew Paul Stapleton well, way before he took over with Wrathall, and was just the club scribe. Yes, he was also a nice guy, yes he was also a huge fan, always was, BUT he lost the plot, as did Wrathall. It incensed me that the locals sat back, took the Kagami bonus, and kept quiet right up to the admin. Of course, I was one of many voicing this stuff on Pasoti at the time, only for Newell and his cronies to censor most of it. What a creep. And there is still the whole cricket ground crap and untold admin understandings that are probably still cooking underneath all the present public nonsense. It's an asset rarely talked about, but you can guarantee it's in the mix somewhere.

To be honest, I fell out of love with Sturrock, the day I saw him crawl on hands and knees to Southampton  a few weeks before promotion was guaranteed, saying he would never have to work again with the money they were offering him. How David Brent is that ?

Unfortunately for Paul Sturrock, quite a few Argyle fans can testify how good Seip (and Timar) was under Holloway.

If his point was 'he just wasn't good enough, many of my friends in management agree', then he needs to have a rethink because those two CBs had Argyle in the playoffs when he took over.

The CBs he replaced them with were not in their league. Paul Sturrock, arguably, has not signed a CB as good as either of them in his entire career in management.

I agree with that EJ.
Cocko was a great import from up North and was great for us in the lower leagues, but the championship found him out a bit. So, along came the classy Seip, and then the brick wall Timar.
It didn't take long before I realised that Seip/Timar was probably the most balanced CB pairing since the days of Johnny Newman. Timar was a slouch, but he didn't half frighten people, with Seip mopping up behind him. A very very good partnership, far better than anything Sturrock concocted in his first spell. Cocko, Wotton and whoever weren't exactly the tallest CBs around. I would say Seip/Timar were as effective as the up front partnership of SEB/Hayles. Then came the sad Timar injury. Luggy needs to take a rain check.

I Remember MK 2 as a disaster, yes things were far from perfect off the pitch but some of his footballing decisions were bizarre IMO.

PlymstockGreen wrote:

I've read all of it. Could have been a little more in depth but a decent read nonetheless.

He takes full blame for the signings of Maclean and Walton, and reveals that they weren't properly scouted.

He wanted Marcel Seip sacked immediately after the incident at home to Charlton, and was dismayed that he was rewarded with a new 6k a week contract, which he felt undermined his standing in the eyes of the squad. He didn't even rate Seip as a player.

He blames Keith Todd for allowing Seip to play against us for Blackpool, and says it displayed his "naivety or complete lack of knowledge regarding football". He believes the Stapleton's thumbs-up to Seip was offensive to the Argyle team and supporters.

He invited Todd for a meal and drinks round his house one night and was told after the meal that he was being sacked, to which he told Todd to "feck off out of it"!

Despite being a nice man Paul Mariner had no concept of coaching and preparing teams in the English League. He didn't even know how to put a back four together in training.

The only board member to come out of it with any integrity was Tony Wrathrall, who continued to pump money into the club when no-one else would, and even calls him a "hero".

Stapelton also wrote a chapter, claims he had no control once Gardner and Todd took over and apparently Todd referred to him as an "irritant". They spent the money on new players in 2008 with the promise of £3 million from the Japanese, which never came, but they still found the money to buy out Phil Gill for £600k.

His story regarding Seip differs with Sturrock. He says Seip was playing through a double hernia problem and Sturrock broke an agreement to play him. He agreed with the fine for Seip for walking out but says Sturrock never asked for him to be sacked. He also says Todd leaked the photo of the thumbs-up as an attempt to undermine him.

Wrathrall says he was asked on the eve of the Rod Stewart concert to stump up £500k up front otherwise Stewart wouldn't perform, with the promise he would get his money back after. He never did at lists various different times he had to pump £100k into the club, once again with promises broken that he would get it back.

As i thought the book wasnt so much a reflection but more an attempt to re write history from the author's side. Its a shame Luggy cant accept his failings as quick as he is to acknowledge his achievements. Luggy mark 2 despite the theatre going on in the back ground was a complete failure.

I'm not so sure that Coughlan was found out by the CCC. I see it as being caught by Old Father Time. Much the same can be said for Friio.

The pair of them were experienced wise old heads, or at least heading that way, when they arrived. They were both at the height of their prowess when we were in Div 4 (or whatever it was called in those days). After that decline slowly but surely set in. For a couple of years it didn't matter because even slightly past their best they were still very good but time and tide wait for no man and all that.

Just ask Forest fans what they think of Friio as a player... The answer is probably unrepeatable but he was, and remains, one of our very best ever. OK so that probably says something about the relative expectations and histories of the two clubs but had Friio rocked up there 4 years earlier I'm sure they would now have a different view of his contribution.

In contrast Coughlan is revered at Sheffield Wednesday and pretty much everywhere else he played after leaving us - and I am not forgetting that those clubs were all playing at sub-CCC level.

In fact his departure from Argyle was a bit of an odd one. All sorts of rumours of him and Bobby Williamson not rubbing along nicely but then again given that one was an Irish catholic and the other a Rangerman that was always going to be a tricky relationship.

While I am on the subject I remember Coughlan's debut match. We were playing Shrewsbury for whom Mick Heathcote had signed in the closed season. Sure enough they had a coming together leading to an eyeball-to-eyeball confrontation. Coughlan didn't take a backward step and it was Heathcote who moved away. "He'll do" I thought. And he did. With knobs on.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I'm not so sure that Coughlan was found out by the CCC. I see it as being caught by Old Father Time. Much the same can be said for Friio.

The pair of them were experienced wise old heads, or at least heading that way, when they arrived. They were both at the height of their prowess when we were in Div 4 (or whatever it was called in those days). After that decline slowly but surely set in. For a couple of years it didn't matter because even slightly past their best they were still very good but time and tide wait for no man and all that.

Just ask Forest fans what they think of Friio as a player... The answer is probably unrepeatable but he was, and remains, one of our very best ever. OK so that probably says something about the relative expectations and histories of the two clubs but had Friio rocked up there 4 years earlier I'm sure they would now have a different view of his contribution.

In contrast Coughlan is revered at Sheffield Wednesday and pretty much everywhere else he played after leaving us - and I am not forgetting that those clubs were all playing at sub-CCC level.

In fact his departure from Argyle was a bit of an odd one. All sorts of rumours of him and Bobby Williamson not rubbing along nicely but then again given that one was an Irish catholic and the other a Rangerman that was always going to be a tricky relationship.

While I am on the subject I remember Coughlan's debut match. We were playing Shrewsbury for whom Mick Heathcote had signed in the closed season. Sure enough they had a coming together leading to an eyeball-to-eyeball confrontation. Coughlan didn't take a backward step and it was Heathcote who moved away. "He'll do" I thought. And he did. With knobs on.

Coughlan played for several seasons after Argyle back in League One with Wednesday, though. Which suggests the standard was the issue, more than his age?