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VillageGreen

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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:11 pm

Nicola Sturgeon has stated that if Corbyn is not a credible election threat to the Tories, she will call for another Scottish independence vote.

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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:32 pm

Tories all have cars.
Seriously though, you're right. How many times do I hear someone angry about the system unfairly rewarding hugely over others, but they won't vote. Corbyn might just crack that particular nut. As resources get tighter and tighter, there's more to play for.
It's all about people thinking their vote matters. How many millions of the working class don't bother because they don't feel properly represented. Mirage has been saying the same thing and got 4 million votes, but on a little Englander fook you ticket. The more extreme left and right in Spain look like they're going to out number the traditional corporate lackeys. It's happening in many places. It's starting here now.
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:35 pm

There you go again!

What working class?

You even use the language of the 70's.

There are far too many home owning, share holding, self employed voters to prevent Corbyn succeeding.

Even Sturgeon has tweeted that Corbyn could be unelectable.

You don't seem to get it.
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:41 pm

More chance of Lord Lucan being found alive then this lunatic winning an election.
Bet the Tories are secretly chuckling to themselves tonight.
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:45 pm

Rollo Tomasi wrote:
There you go again!

What working class?

You even use the language of the 70's.

There are far too many home owning, share holding, self employed voters to prevent Corbyn succeeding.

Even Sturgeon has tweeted that Corbyn could be unelectable.

You don't seem to get it.

I'm a working class geezer, jezza you and your left wing spankers dont represent me .... im voting posh dave!!!!!!!!!!!!! though i have just come home from the pub!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! larger army!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!lol!lol!lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:17 pm

Rollo Tomasi wrote:
There you go again!

What working class?

You even use the language of the 70's.

There are far too many home owning, share holding, self employed voters to prevent Corbyn succeeding.

Even Sturgeon has tweeted that Corbyn could be unelectable.

You don't seem to get it.

I think we all get it to some degree, whilst at the same time deluding ourselves that we matter to the powers that be. The biggest lie is that the Tories are looking after the middle classes, it's sheer snobbery on the part of the wannabe middlers! They are looking after the people that really matter, to them you can go feck yourself as far as they are concerned. The middle classes have suffered the largest raid on their wealth ever, yet they are afraid of the looney left, really? What about cutting the police, doctors being unavailable without a months notice, kids getting into debt for a crap education just to fuel the new education business. We are in this shit hole of a mess because of the business men, the talented individuals, the very people that are now benefiting from the transfer of wealth we are talking about, and you seriously think they are working for you? Blows my mind foreshore.
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:48 pm

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To be fair they are going to need that extra support to withstand the ongoing media campaign against Corbyn. The tax-avoiding media barons are going to go all out to try keep people from voting Labour.
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:00 pm

Rollo Tomasi wrote:


There are far too many home owning, share holding, self employed voters to prevent Corbyn succeeding.
.
Sorry, but this one just makes me laugh Very Happy
Do you really think Rollo, self employed folk owning their homes don't vote labour or don't have any left of centre leanings ?
Do me a favour. Myself and  extended family over generations have almost all been self employed and property owning, and a blue cross has never been a consideration.
And just who do you think started the mutual movement that begat the building societies that lent us the money to buy property ? It certainly wasn't the tories and their money grabbing banks. And who was responsible for getting the higher wages so those mortgages could be afforded. Get real and change your newsagent.

Of course, it isn't just the 2 million floating voters that are in the sights, its also the burgeoning under class that never vote that Corbyn will also be after. That's where things can change. There's millions of them, and I can't see the Bullingdon boys appealing to them in any shape or form
Incidentally, if Corbynmania proves popular, it will also have the effect of drawing the Tories more to the left, just like they were obliged to move somewhat more rightight in rhetoric to counter Mirage.

A bit optimistic I know, but just maybe this could kick start a new social movement to counter the globalized cheats. History didn't stop when we were born.
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:50 pm

They might well have left of centre leanings but the idea of a Miliband/Corbyn government scared/scares them s**tless.

The majority of voters have socialist sympathies yet become pragmatic at the voting booth.

Socialism rarely creates wealth, but is wonderful at spending taxpayers money.
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:50 pm

In the last general election 24% of the electorate voted Tory.

34% did not vote at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:51 pm

Rollo Tomasi wrote:


The majority of voters have socialist sympathies yet become pragmatic at the voting booth.

Socialism rarely creates wealth, but is wonderful at spending taxpayers money.
Simple then, Rollo, people have to be convinced left of centre is the pragmatic approach, given the nightmare war/refugee thing and the underlying financial disaster that is always just beneath the surface since the first signs of the crash to come. There's a lot of desperate treading of water going on. It was only stemmed temporarily by socialist bail outs across the western world, taxpayers' money.
As for creating wealth, I am obviously totally opposed to your thoughts. Don't confuse technological advance with business practice, and I would like to know of one private company that could have made such a success out of the NHS. That's REAL wealth, far far more valuable than a few WiFi trinkets.
It was socialist planning and subsidy after ww2 that fed the world in a way private enterprise had never ever managed. And it has been private unregulated greed that has caused the present debt mountain, compared to the EU food mountain. People are always more efficient when they cooperate. Private business obviously has it's place and also has it successes.Horses for courses. A mixed economy is the pragmatic answer.


Last edited by Sir John Hawkins on Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:52 pm

Sir Francis Drake wrote:
In the last general election 24% of the electorate voted Tory.

34% did not vote at all.

and yet they still won lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:00 pm

Angry wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
In the last general election 24% of the electorate voted Tory.

34% did not vote at all.

and yet they still won lol!

You really are a bit slow sometimes Angry. That was the whole point of Sir Frank's post. The potential left of centre vote who could be enthused
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:09 pm

Sir John Hawkins wrote:
Angry wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
In the last general election 24% of the electorate voted Tory.

34% did not vote at all.

and yet they still won lol!

You really are a bit slow sometimes Angry. That was the whole point of Sir Frank's post. The potential left of centre vote who could be enthused

his point means nothing really it just shows grasping at straws and manipulation of data to suit his agenda.

its easily done and is an empty gesture at best. 34% may not have voted tory they certainly all didnt vote labour/lib dem either
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:16 pm

Angry wrote:
Sir Francis Drake wrote:
In the last general election 24% of the electorate voted Tory.

34% did not vote at all.

and yet they still won lol!


Those that don't vote always decide the outcome.


Last edited by Elias on Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:17 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spellijg)
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:28 pm

Actually, your piss take inadvertently makes a valid point.
Take Iraq. Why bother to take on the Americans, just meld into the background ( not voting ) and wait for the attackers to go home. The Sunnis are back with a vengeance, literally. Not voting is sometimes the way forward. Depends on how the planet is shaping up.
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:38 pm

Sir John Hawkins wrote:
Actually, your piss take inadvertently makes a valid point.
Take Iraq. Why bother to take on the Americans, just meld into the background ( not voting ) and wait for the attackers to go home. The Sunnis are back with a vengeance, literally. Not voting is sometimes the way forward. Depends on how the planet is shaping up.

Yeah... Bravo Iraq. Let's see how not 'bothering' to take on Isis works out.
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:44 pm

Rickler wrote:
Sir John Hawkins wrote:
Actually, your piss take inadvertently makes a valid point.
Take Iraq. Why bother to take on the Americans, just meld into the background ( not voting ) and wait for the attackers to go home. The Sunnis are back with a vengeance, literally. Not voting is sometimes the way forward. Depends on how the planet is shaping up.

Yeah...  Bravo Iraq.  Let's see how not 'bothering' to take on Isis works out.  

Saddam's Sunnis aren't taking on Isis, they're fighting with them. Marriage of convenience for now
Another authoritarian nightmare is bound to ensue, whoever the top dogs are.
Afghanistan is the same. What a mess. No wonder people are trying to flee in their millions
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:19 pm

Sir John Hawkins wrote:
Rollo Tomasi wrote:


The majority of voters have socialist sympathies yet become pragmatic at the voting booth.

Socialism rarely creates wealth, but is wonderful at spending taxpayers money.
Simple then, Rollo, people have to be convinced left of centre is the pragmatic approach, given the nightmare war/refugee thing and the underlying financial disaster that is always just beneath the surface since the first signs of the crash to come. There's a lot of desperate treading of water going on. It was only stemmed temporarily by socialist bail outs across the western world, taxpayers' money.
As for creating wealth, I am obviously totally opposed to your thoughts. Don't confuse technological advance with business practice, and I would like to know of one private company that could have made such a success out of the NHS. That's REAL wealth, far far more valuable than a few WiFi trinkets.
It was socialist planning and subsidy after ww2 that fed the world in a way private enterprise had never ever managed. And it has been private unregulated greed that has caused the present debt mountain, compared to the EU food mountain. People are always more efficient when they cooperate. Private business obviously has it's place and also has it successes.Horses for courses. A mixed economy is the pragmatic answer.

When you say 'socialist bail outs' I take it you mean Quantative Easing by the European Central Bank.

I'm not sure that your example of post WW2 is a fair one. It's a bit simplistic to claim socialist dogma saved the day. It was given the opportunity yet within 6 years had unravelled.

I also think that people are more efficient when they compete. It's human nature. Mind you I agree with the mixed economy bit.
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:31 pm

In the 1951 General Election ("won" by Churchill's 325 seats to Attlee's 296) 13,948385 votes were cast for Labour (49%) against 12,659,712 for the Tories (44%).

The only thing that unravelled was the electoral system.
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:38 pm

The only thing unravelling is you.  Accept it...  Your party lost.

Anyway, as you well know...  The British system was designed to stop heavily populated areas having a bullying say over less dense areas.
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:11 pm

Punchdrunk wrote:
More chance of Lord Lucan being found alive then this lunatic winning an election.
Bet the Tories are secretly chuckling to themselves tonight.
Oh yes I bet they are. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:13 pm

So, the heavily populated London has never dominated Cornwall, for instance ? Very Happy
Do me a favour, I do live on the planet Ricks. And of course your heavily populated comment merely means some better off folk in the shires get more of a say per capita than the great unwashed in the cities. Charming.
We can all take a stab at why first past the post is still in operation. In my opinion, a throw back to feudal powerd. I thought the Blackadder rotten borough episode with Vincent Hannah I seem to recall was hilarious. Dunny on the Wold.

One thing we can all agree with , there are more representative systems out there.

Here's a cat among the pigeons. If first past the post is so representative, why not use it with the same boundaries with the upcoming in or out Europe vote ?  Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:35 pm

VillageGreen wrote:
Nicola Sturgeon has stated that if Corbyn is not a credible election threat to the Tories, she will call for another Scottish independence vote.

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Sturgeon should be worried that Corbyn's Labour Party will be far more of a threat to the SNP in Scotland than the Tories in England.
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PostSubject: Re: Jezza Corbyn   Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:37 pm

Sir John Hawkins wrote:
some better off folk in the shires get more of a say per capita than the great unwashed in the cities. Charming.

Even in the shires it's still one person one vote... Unless you're claiming the country peasant folk in general are better off than the bourgeois shopkeepers in the big smoke.


Whatever... Keep fighting the class war, eh?
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